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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    The elder scrolls series were never about warring factions, unlike SWTOR who, after the peace bullshit they did, have to go back to faction conflict cause it turns out it's not very interesting when everyone is fighting the "greater threat". Hell Star Wars have always been about light vs dark, jedi vs sith, red vs blue, a lot like WoW. Way to crap on your own argument.
    They worked together a bunch of times in SWTOR because you can't have a sustained conflict that continues without breaks. So yeah it doesn't "crap on my own argument" as you so eloquently put it. Give me an example where any game has successfully done it. You can't. Even SWTOR needed a break otherwise its just dwindling resources and back and forth losses with no explanations on how after destroying millions of people and ships they can continue to muster massive fleets. And you can't just have battle get smaller and smaller cause the players wont like it.

    Star wars is literally a fairy tale about good versus evil and even they needed a break from the factions fighting.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    BFA's deliberate failure in one area and accidental failure in the other will ensure all stories to come will ultimately about flawless heroes punching Satan before Satan can do jack shit. And that's terrible.
    This is probably the main reason which confuses me why they so abrubtly went for the Unifaction. Without going to deep into it, I get that Unifaction checks all the boxes Blizzard pushes/needs for the franchise in it's current state, from both in and out of universe perspective, but are we really going to be constantly locked into those kind of stories from now on?

    I remember back in the day how I thought Unifaction as something Blizzard would do only when they deemed it's time to pull a plug on the franchise and we're about to fight the biggest of the bads - probably Legion, so after it's done Warcraft can have it's sweet, love spreading ending they obviously are dying for.

    Really makes me wonder what the next few expacs are going to look like narrative-wise.

  3. #663
    Sounds like there will be a lot of contraversy in the Forsaken between those that believed in and followed Sylvanas, and those that just want to live in peace, making Calia's job very hard and giving the Forsaken an opportunity for interesting lore and growth as a faction.

    But nah, it's obviously just "forsaken are dead". Well, to be fair, they are dead, but you know.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Sounds like there will be a lot of contraversy in the Forsaken between those that believed in and followed Sylvanas, and those that just want to live in peace, making Calia's job very hard and giving the Forsaken an opportunity for interesting lore and growth as a faction.

    But nah, it's obviously just "forsaken are dead". Well, to be fair, they are dead, but you know.
    Blizzard never even bothered to explore the difference in world views between OG Forsaken and post-Cata Forsaken. And you seriously are going to pretend they will bother exploring any differences between Forsaken that adored Sylvanas and those who just wanted to live their unlife when the former clash with the unification they are pushing hard?

    There will be no difficulty to Calia's rule. Any and all Forsaken will instantaneously get turned into Light-worshipping sad sack that always secretly wanted Calia to come and hug them, which they hid only because of that pesky Sylvanas that didn't even let them remember Lordaeron (while using their Lordaeronian heritage to motivate the Forsaken in the previous faction war). Just like all the Horde members (the majority of them even) that started 8.2.5 on Sylvanas' side instantaneously forgot about all the bad blood between them and the Alliance five seconds later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Blizzard never even bothered to explore the difference in world views between OG Forsaken and post-Cata Forsaken. And you seriously are going to pretend they will bother exploring any differences between Forsaken that adored Sylvanas and those who just wanted to live their unlife when the former clash with the unification they are pushing hard?

    There will be no difficulty to Calia's rule. Any and all Forsaken will instantaneously get turned into Light-worshipping sad sack that always secretly wanted Calia to come and hug them, which they hid only because of that pesky Sylvanas that didn't even let them remember Lordaeron (while using their Lordaeronian heritage to motivate the Forsaken in the previous faction war). Just like all the Horde members (the majority of them even) that started 8.2.5 on Sylvanas' side instantaneously forgot about all the bad blood between them and the Alliance five seconds later.
    Your extreme pessimism is noted.

    We'll see how it actually plays out later. Not that I believe that Blizzard has an amazing lore team, but to ignore something like this is unbelievably boring and bad.

    My believe is a lot more reasonable: I think they'll drop the ball on this and not elaborate on it as much as they should, but it will be there. There will be conflicts and likely there will be forsaken that rise up against Calia, perhaps even violently. They are literally taking someone with strong connections to the Alliance and putting them in as leader of one of the most openly violent factions of the Horde. If it worked perfectly, it would be ridiculous, let alone how much potential there is for story growth just thrown away, something they direly need to play off of to keep this game going.

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Oh get off your non existent high horse. No one fucking said anything about change being scary. But I see you have nothing else than sad straw-man in rebuttal to the inorganic character of the change in question.
    Look at mah High Horse, mah High Horse is UHMAZING!!!!

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Not everyone turned their back on the forsaken. Calia realized pretty much from the start of their existence there was some good undead.

    Have you played a forsaken since vanilla? And when where you complaining about Sylvanas not being a true forsaken? Calia is sylvanas 2.0


    A ton more then 3. And its funny how you are pro Sylvanas killing everyone who disagrees with her and now you are upset when a new leader who hasn't killed her dissenters (yet) shows up. Sylvanas was a sexy elf banshee who could convert her body to ghost form and yet I don't see people like you bitching how she wasn't a true forsaken. Calia is almost completely Sylvanas 2.0 who only happened to have most of the bad shit happened to her while alive instead of her undeath and yet you people are crying that she isn't a true forsaken when the forsaken have never been lead by a true forsaken. Fleeing from ghouls and shit isn't hard?
    Calia is not really Sylvanas 2.0. And I don't think you get the point that actual Forsaken Fans and Players have, when they are dissatisfied and angry at Calia randomly becoming the leader of the Forsaken.

    First, Calia has a too recent Alliance Story. I mean, sure, Sylvanas was technically an Alliance Character too once, together with the Forsaken when they were alive. The difference is, this was back in WC3, when the factions didn't matter to begin with, because the narrative was more focussed on telling the stories of different races. In World of Warcraft History, Sylvanas and the Forsaken were always Horde alligned. Nowadays, they are an iconic, essential and traditional part of the Horde roster.

    Second, your arguments make no sense. Sylvanas is deeply connected towards the origins of Forsaken Story. The original Forsaken were renegade undeads of the Scourge who broke themselves free and grouped together under Sylvanas to fight off the Scourge and the remnants of Humanity from Lordaeron. Sylvanas personally freed many Forsaken and Dark Rangers as well as Banshees were always a traditional iconic part of the Forsaken.

    Third, Style. Calia just stylistically doesn't fit into the Forsaken. She has a clearly Alliance human style, as a light alligned Priest who has a rather bright color scheme. The style of the Forsaken was always defined by dark colors, horror or gothicesque architecture, skulls and blight. They are stylistically dark and, yeah, rather gothic and horror-inspired in terms of their unique racial style. Calia introduces basically an element of Disney what is supposed to be more of an original Tim Burton setting, which simply doesn't fit in. It would be exactly the same, as if we would introduce a dark and shadowy gothic inspired racial leader into the Humans or Blood Elves, who were always defined by a rather bright color scheme and style. I mean, Blizzard seems to understand this themselves if we look at Anduins new style, which represents the Human Fantasy perfectly. It is Paladin-esque, bright and knightly with a lion motive, fitting to the traditional human style which was defined by light, bright medieval and knightly elements and a lion iconography. Calia inside the Forsaken would be like introducing a knightly Troll or Orc or a tribalistic Draenei as Racial Leaders. It doesn't fit and breaks with the fantasy one has with a certain race.


    I mean, they could introduce a more morally good Forsaken as the faction leader, but Calia just breaks with what defined the Forsaken in terms of style, tone and story for all of their history too much. Which brings me to the question why she has to be an light-alligned Undead and Holy Priest to begin with. The Priesthood of the Forsaken were traditionally shadow-alligned, just look at the titles of their clerics. It just rubs me the wrong way that both major undead priests, Faol and Calia, have to be light-alligned. Void and Shadow are themes, which already lack representation inside the playable races of World of Warcraft, the only ones really representing this aspect being the Void Elves. With the cult of the forgotten Shadow re-introduced and Blizzard seemingly wanting to make both the Light and the Void more morally grey, I don't get why Calia couldn't have turned into a normal Undead and chosing to study the teachings of the forgotten Shadow, so that she can understand her peopl better who know seem to be practicing a void-based religion primarily instead. This way, Calia could have received a unique model which represents the common style of the Forsaken better, she would have a deeper connection to her people, because she converted to their new religion instead of sticking to the more human-centered religion of the light which many Forsaken left behind and she would have served as a good representation of a Shadow Priest, offering a counter balance to prominent light priests like Velen and Anduin.

    To this day, we don't have a single prominent Shadow Priest in World of Warcraft and not a single void-alligned character in the Horde, despite the fact that traditionally in World of Warcraft, the Horde was closer alligned to the Shadow, with both Forsaken and Trolls having more shadow-alligned racial priest spells. The light was always more of a traditional theme of the Alliance. And while I guess we have to live with Void Elves being a part of the alliance right now, focussing more on the forgotten Shadow would have been a good opportunity to bring in the void into the Horde, who are themselves currently overly alligned with the Light, with Blood Elves being now stronger alligned with the Light than with the Arcane.

  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicIsTerrible View Post
    How the hell does she have zero connection to the Forsaken? 90% of the Forsaken are citizens of Lordaeron, her people. She is the rightful Queen of Lordaeron. But talk out of your ass, I guess.
    We all know who she is and it's mostly irrelevant. In fact, her being the sister of Arthas makes it worse, since the forsaken hate Arthas more than just about anyone.

    From a story stand point, she has had nothing to do with the forsaken or the horde for years. She has had nothing to do with their story or their struggle and was raised by the light which is the antithesis of the forsaken. Had blizz built her up with any connection to the horde/forsaken, like they did Voss, she could have worked, but they didn't. They pulled her out of their ass and shoehorned her into the story in a book with her only appearance in game being the Priest Order Hall during which she was still alive.
    Last edited by Khelek; 2019-10-14 at 06:01 AM.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    It does however wear the trappings of one with those character cinematics both in-game and out. BFA's deliberate failure in one area and accidental failure in the other will ensure all stories to come will ultimately about flawless heroes punching Satan before Satan can do jack shit. And that's terrible.
    Here is the gameplay issue with that.
    People want to see Argus. They want to see Naz'jatar. They want to see Ny'alotha. And to do that we need to be the invading force, not the defending force. If we are the underdogs as we should be, we would fight the enemy in defense. We could perhaps attack them in their own home but it would either need to be a stealth operation, a situation were we were trapped and fought against overwhelming odds or a last desperate push.

    And here is where gameplay fucks us up. For us to fight in defense the enemy would need to be allowed to leave some lasting impact. They are not exactly comfortable with that. BfA did change that a bit with Darnassus and Undercity but we'd need something more frequent than that. For us to fly under the radar we'd need something like the imo excellent Suramar city quests. Problem is, I've heard far more hatred about the stealth nature of those quests than love. And that is ultimately the biggest issue; both stealth or the idea of a desperate assault require for our players to be in danger outside of instanced content. And we cannot have that. Ever since TBC and to a greater extent Wrath, Blizzard has decided that open world content is for people who mostly play the game by smashing the keyboard with their foreheads. Argus should have been a place were you'd die the moment you did something wrong; you missed a patrol, you pulled an extra mob, heck you went ahead without waiting for cooldowns and full health. What it was instead was players trying to see how much of the zone they could get away with pulling at once.

    Gameplay dictates the story. Defense means that we need to stay in the same zones for multiple patches in a row (since you need to first play the zone while it's in peace). The need for constant new content means we are always on the offensive. We would need people to completely reevaluate their expectations of what patch content means in order to be able to move forward to a more reasonable storyline.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Your extreme pessimism is noted.

    We'll see how it actually plays out later. Not that I believe that Blizzard has an amazing lore team, but to ignore something like this is unbelievably boring and bad.

    My believe is a lot more reasonable: I think they'll drop the ball on this and not elaborate on it as much as they should, but it will be there. There will be conflicts and likely there will be forsaken that rise up against Calia, perhaps even violently. They are literally taking someone with strong connections to the Alliance and putting them in as leader of one of the most openly violent factions of the Horde. If it worked perfectly, it would be ridiculous, let alone how much potential there is for story growth just thrown away, something they direly need to play off of to keep this game going.
    They'll prolly just make the forsaken that rebel either a new defias group that is dealt with and removed from the factions...

    or Gann Stonespire 2.0 where those that don't like the new status quo go off and make their stance known... and then die removing their presence from the story anyways.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Gameplay dictates the story. Defense means that we need to stay in the same zones for multiple patches in a row (since you need to first play the zone while it's in peace). The need for constant new content means we are always on the offensive. We would need people to completely reevaluate their expectations of what patch content means in order to be able to move forward to a more reasonable storyline.
    If there's one good thing BFA has done, and I use that term loosely, it's that people like things happening in the old world. The Arathi remake, thorough as it was, was well received and even the Darkshore one which is much more of a hack job didn't get too badly and people are generally glad to see Uldum and Vale come back in. Provided that enough graphical resources are put into it so that the area is visually distinct from what it used to be and of higher quality, it should be more than possible to place raids within familiar locations. Even a change as simple as having Bad Guy X turn Zone Y into his stronghold with the time dragon there to port you back while having assault style stuff in Zone Z would communicate the proactivity of the bad man as he goes about doing the bad thing.

    But that too is not sufficient. N'zoth is basically that and the blurb to the raid tells you about how this is a desperate attack, but even gameplay exempted since I think the ship on that has sailed ages ago, the thing is that N'zoth has genuinely done absolutely nothing successful to harm any of us throughout the entirety of the expansion. The only thing he ever does to inflict casualties is through Sylvanas and Azshara with the ship dunking and Azshara in general has been his front man. Zuldazar - G'huun. Teldrassil and the faction war in general - The Horde I mean Sylvanas. All Sylvanas. Even giving him a Broken Shore moment would've given him some credibility as a baddie.

    It's a combination of achieving an in-story victory or victories and having an impact on the world. Oh, and for good measure you can nix those fucking rebel groups and side threats that are always inexplicably in every end level zone since at least WoD. Nothing guts Argus or Nazjatar like having a bunch of yobs using sticks and harsh language somehow still exist in the dominion of evil, fully unperturbed. Or circumventing teh main thing trapping you there for Nazjatar within one quest with an in-story portal copout instead of going the Pandaria route and making the portal a gameplay convenience. Or flying in an invincible spaceship after having established threat through destroying that same kind of spaceship before.

    On second thought, I'm kind of glad Ny'alotha isn't a zone and N'zoth isn't either, or we'd be grinding rep with his sentient, freedom-seeking back fungus that've fought the good fight for 10k years.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-10-14 at 07:47 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    *snips
    For me, there needs to be a solution for both gameplay and story. What I've suggested (which would have been amazing back in WoD since it fits the SavageTM theme) is for them to create a new mode, similar to war mode. You opt in, you get a few new abilities that you can use in the overworld and better rewards. And in return, the overworld turns BRUTAL.
    The game has a substantial number of casual players who turned casual after playing hardcore and many of them are up for challenging content.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    For me, there needs to be a solution for both gameplay and story. What I've suggested (which would have been amazing back in WoD since it fits the SavageTM theme) is for them to create a new mode, similar to war mode. You opt in, you get a few new abilities that you can use in the overworld and better rewards. And in return, the overworld turns BRUTAL.
    The game has a substantial number of casual players who turned casual after playing hardcore and many of them are up for challenging content.
    I'd be happy with that, I'm just not convinced Blizzard would do it. I do think there's more chance of what you're suggesting now than there was say, two years ago though, since mobs being able to kill you is one thing most people seem to enjoy a lot about Vanilla and it'd be among the more easily translatable elements. At the very least a Mechagon-esque proof of concept zone for this is something I'd be really into.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Your extreme pessimism is noted.

    We'll see how it actually plays out later. Not that I believe that Blizzard has an amazing lore team, but to ignore something like this is unbelievably boring and bad.

    My believe is a lot more reasonable: I think they'll drop the ball on this and not elaborate on it as much as they should, but it will be there. There will be conflicts and likely there will be forsaken that rise up against Calia, perhaps even violently. They are literally taking someone with strong connections to the Alliance and putting them in as leader of one of the most openly violent factions of the Horde. If it worked perfectly, it would be ridiculous, let alone how much potential there is for story growth just thrown away, something they direly need to play off of to keep this game going.
    Your position isn't "more reasonable" as it runs contrary to Blizzard's precedent of doing absolutely nothing to explore lines of division among the Forsaken (or most races for that matter). Even a bigger one like the OG vs post-Cata Forsaken. And OK, Forsaken are the most anti-Alliance Horde race. What of it? First of all, Blizzard likes to pretend Calia isn't Alliance. Secondly, what's the second most anti-Alliance race? The Orcs, I'd wager. And who leads the Orcs again with the coming of 8.3?

    By the looks of it, Thrall. The guy whose tenure as Warchief was mired with Alliance appeasement where he turned a blind eye to anything related to Alliance attacking the Horde, while berating Horde members for doing the same to the Alliance. The guy who - by his own admission - settled Orcs in Durotar specifically to make them suffer as an atonement for what the Old Horde did to the Alliance, even though many Orcs were born in internment camps and had nothing to do with the First or Second War. The guy who teamed up with the Alliance against the Horde in this very expansion. Do you see any Orcs rising up against being led by an Alliance sycophant of this magnitude in 8.3? Because I don't. Why should Blizzard treat the Forsaken any different?

    Blizzard's writing IS unbelievably boring and bad, with "wasted potential" being the overall theme of the entire game. Especially when it comes to faction war stories. Because while they like to cash in on early hype from faction pride the premise of a faction war expansion, the story they actually want to push during such expansions is fortune cookie wisdom of "we're stronger together", "let's sing kumbaya around a bonfire" and "the power on friendship will prevail". With the Horde becoming more Alliance-like after Blizzard tells the Horde players how bad non-Alliancified Hode is and how they need a human to tell them what they should be like.

    And they will push it no matter what, regardless of how forced and hamfisted it will be. Vide the majority of the Horde that still stood behind Sylvanas and her war becoming best buds with Alliance on the spot just because Sylvanas was a meanie. Even after we started 8.2.5 with Anduin out of all people pointing out the vectors of bad blood between the factions and his Orc pet Saurfang lamenting that the divide between factions is too large.

    Expecting Blizzard to not rise above their established "standard" and simply deliver more of the same isn't "extreme pessimism". It's realism.

    Given how it looks like Shadowlands will indeed be the next expansion judging by some Lich King related stuff being the part of 8.3 that's encrypted out of all things, at the very best Blizzard will make some Forsaken still loyal to Sylvanas bail on the faction entirely and join her in her mission. But at that point it's not an internal Forsaken conflict. It's some ex-Forsaken being evil and wrong and joining a villain, while the rest of the Forsaken get even more homogenized in Calia's Light with the departure of the bad apples.
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    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  15. #675
    Now here is a fun idea, for all those that hate Calia.

    Say she does convert the Forsaken to Lightforged or something. Say that many of them will accept this. Say that several others will not. What do you think the Light represented through Calia will do? We have already seen that it can be very very rigorous when it has an agenda to push (Yrel and Xe'ra) so I can very well see Calia being commanded to hunt down those Forsaken that will not convert in a holy crusade and burn them at the stake.

    Now the fun question: Would that make you like Calia more or less?

    I know, weird question, buuuut, if people love to have Sylvanas the genocidal pschopath, then Calia being a genocidal psychopath too must make it better no?

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Now here is a fun idea, for all those that hate Calia.

    Say she does convert the Forsaken to Lightforged or something. Say that many of them will accept this. Say that several others will not. What do you think the Light represented through Calia will do? We have already seen that it can be very very rigorous when it has an agenda to push (Yrel and Xe'ra) so I can very well see Calia being commanded to hunt down those Forsaken that will not convert in a holy crusade and burn them at the stake.

    Now the fun question: Would that make you like Calia more or less?

    I know, weird question, buuuut, if people love to have Sylvanas the genocidal pschopath, then Calia being a genocidal psychopath too must make it better no?
    Calia being genocidal wouldn't get anywhere as that's not Sylvanas's appeal either. Part of her appeal is that she's evil, but not in the "Retard who fails at every turn but is touted as a genius while waging war on an abstract concept" way.

    That said, yes, Calia and a hypothetical Lightforged undead allied race would benefit enormously from a characterization that actually thought about what we were dealing with here. A Lightforged undead is essentially a static homunculus devoid of all physiological needs and functionally immortal. Past that, it lacks the lingering psychoses of a regular undead - its soul and body are in alignment and it sees no reason why we shouldn't all get along and all be happy. It, by nature, lacks any frame of reference with human grievances or needs because it lacks any of those itself. A hypothetical Lightforged undead race led by Calia would thus ideally be very benevolent - helping the needy, saving people and so forth, giving out everything they don't require because others need it more, etc. but they'd also be extremely exclusionary and wish to spread their mindset to everyone else so everyone can be as happy as they are. Sorrow, loss, anger, etc. are anathema to them and those who have them would be mentally ill and require help in their eyes - not to be killed, except in last ditch self-defense, but to be Lightforged as they are, preferably after being raised into undeath to eliminate their lingering physical needs as well. This is a cool concept that wouldn't make any of them outright evil, but would push the inhuman element as well as the Light as a cosmic force of stasis and order, and an inhuman element is core to being undead.

    Does it fit with the Forsaken though? No. The Forsaken are their losses and grievances, rejections and learning to make the most out of a bad situation, petty with black humor going on and so forth. Such a characterization would be interesting, but also be in total violation of what they are. That said, I would much prefer the above over the current fate of the Forsaken as what are effectively sad ugly humans on the wrong faction. Give me the inhuman holy crusade that'll teach you their peaceful ways by force if need be any day. And if you drag the regular undead with it, then you also get a whole different line of characterization as well with undead emulating their physically perfect leaders and suffering through the Light that burns them out of commitment to the common good of everyone or others who struggle with their contradictory nature. It'd be good stuff.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-10-14 at 04:22 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post

    I know, weird question, buuuut, if people love to have Sylvanas the genocidal pschopath, then Calia being a genocidal psychopath too must make it better no?
    I have a greater feeling this is exactly what's going to turn out and it won't help Calia's public relations among the forsaken except in more forced railroading because they're going to write it as the official cure.

  18. #678
    Maybe said already but oof, this thread is getting large, but i am enjoying the idea of a leader that can tie the forsaken to who they were as a people. These people are those that had died from the blight in lorderan and so having someone who has ties to that lineage seems interesting to me. Gives the Forsaken more of an image then undead tools to a bitter cold elf who has always had disdain for humans.

    Edit: As a side note, would it be interesting to have lightforged undead be something forsaken can get and become by doing a side quest, then also unlock that Allied Race as well? I know they did not do it for dranei but it seems logical to give existing forsaken the ability to become lightforged through a quest line, but eh money money.
    Last edited by FurryRedVixen; 2019-10-14 at 04:02 PM.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    We all know who she is and it's mostly irrelevant. In fact, her being the sister of Arthas makes it worse, since the forsaken hate Arthas more than just about anyone.

    From a story stand point, she has had nothing to do with the forsaken or the horde for years. She has had nothing to do with their story or their struggle and was raised by the light which is the antithesis of the forsaken. Had blizz built her up with any connection to the horde/forsaken, like they did Voss, she could have worked, but they didn't. They pulled her out of their ass and shoehorned her into the story in a book with her only appearance in game being the Priest Order Hall during which she was still alive.
    Idk even Voss makes little sense. There’s a whole cast of Forsaken higher ranked than her yet somehow she’s suddenly speaking for the Forsaken after specifically not joining the Forsaken back in Cata and her entry into both the Forsaken and Horde sounding more like conscription then any kind of loyalty or real care for either? o ok, yeah that one quest in Stormsong really fleshed her entire history out! She loves Forsaken now!!!

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Does it fit with the Forsaken though? No. The Forsaken are their losses and grievances, rejections and learning to make the most out of a bad situation, petty with black humor going on and so forth. Such a characterization would be interesting, but also be in total violation of what they are. That said, I would much prefer the above over the current fate of the Forsaken as what are effectively sad ugly humans on the wrong faction. Give me the inhuman holy crusade that'll teach you their peaceful ways by force if need be any day. And if you drag the regular undead with it, then you also get a whole different line of characterization as well with undead emulating their physically perfect leaders and suffering through the Light that burns them out of commitment to the common good of everyone or others who struggle with their contradictory nature. It'd be good stuff.
    Okay, first, you probably know this has to be asked: Are the Forsaken their scars?

    While it's a meme it does actually fit here. The light wants to "help" people that are suffering, Illidan was just one example. I can very well see Calia being revived with the exact purpose of "helping" her former subjects. Unfortunately the Light also does not care if they want this and decides itself what is the best way to help, so the outcome might indeed be a crusade. However I doubt that the ingame faction of Forsaken will be changed this drastically, that would require a lot of remodeling.

    I am also not even sure Calia will be the new Forsaken leader. My guess is that she will get a few of them, show them the Light and bring us the Lightforged Undead as next allied race for the Alliance at the start of 9.0. Basically the exact same thing that Alleria did. She also did not become the leader of the Blood Elves, just took a fringe group away from them.
    Don`t get me wrong I still think the Forsaken have to change their ways, otherwise they simply cannot be accepted in the new Horde and would have to be killed off, but I doubt Blizzard is going to change their identity so drastically. As we see here, people go crazy by the mere thought of change. The irrational hatred in some people makes me think that Blizzard HQ is burned down, if there is too much change.

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