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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    No, she actually doesn't. I don't know how many more ways Blizzard can tell you that when they literally had her call the Horde (and thus the Forsaken) nothing and abandon them by blasting off into space like Team Rocket.

    She literally sends you with the fleet to Nazjatar so that you can die. So your soul, the player, regardless of if you're loyal to her or not, can feed the "Hungering Void." She didn't warn you. She didn't tell you to make sure you survived the events of 8.2. She was willing to kill you and the entire Horde fleet that was left to serve her own purpose.

    No sorry even if Sylvanas somehow kills N'zoth, you don't get to say, "All her other actions don't matter." She still butchered thousands of civilians at Teldrassil. Still used biological weapons of warfare against civilians at Gilneas against even Garrosh's wishes. Still killed her own people in the Arathi Highlands. Still made and betrayed allies as soon as they were inconvenient for her. Still saw her own people as arrows in the quiver.

    If you still think Sylvanas gives two shits about anybody but yourself, you haven't been paying attention. And there's nothing Blizzard can do to make you realize it at this point. She could disembowel Nathanos on screen and laugh as he dies and some of you would still insist she's doing something for some grand noble purpose.
    Funny how you say this, when your entire argument here relies on the notion that her attitude in regards to the play (that may not even be a Forsaken) in 8.2 magically negates her internal monologues about the Forsaken throughout the years. Top notch logic you got here. And consistency.


    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    I mean you have over a decade of lore saying otherwise, but sure.
    It doesn't count because reasons


    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    By your own logic wouldn’t forsaken fans be happy because Calia has big breasts and a corset ?


    I mean cmon, give two seconds of thought.
    What kind of supernatural optimism is this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  2. #702
    So, this might be one of the biggest examples that the faction divide might disappear simply because there's no way Calia would completely leave the Alliance to "join" the Horde. And there's no way the Forsaken will just switch to Alliance, so now we've got an Alliance character leading a Horde race.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by DotEleven View Post
    So, this might be one of the biggest examples that the faction divide might disappear simply because there's no way Calia would completely leave the Alliance to "join" the Horde. And there's no way the Forsaken will just switch to Alliance, so now we've got an Alliance character leading a Horde race.
    I mean she leans more toward the Alliance than Horde (Probably because Sylvanas killed her), but I donno if its fair to say that she was like an Alliance faction leader and is swapping. She's a priest of the Netherlight Temple, if anything.

    Not like if Mekkatorque suddenly joined the Horde.
    Last edited by Yoshingo; 2019-10-15 at 04:54 PM.

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    All of them were killed by the scourge and all of them escaped from the LK once its hold over the scourge was weakened. I think thats one of those things that would bond people. Also, I would say it more like UNDEAD humans led by an UNDEAD elf.

    Thats how UNDEAD humans could relate to an UNDEAD elf
    Not to mention the Forsaken aren’t just made up of Humans. Undead Elves/Dark Rangers have been part of the faction for a while they’re just not playable.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    I mean she leans more toward the Alliance than Horde (Probably because Sylvanas killed her), but I donno if its fair to say that she was like an Alliance faction leader and is swapping. She's a priest of the Netherlight Temple, if anything.

    Not like if Mekkatorque suddenly joined the Horde.
    I mean, she's the daughter of the last Menethil king of the Alliance. Pretty sure she counts as an Alliance character. Heck, Anduin was ready to acknowledge her right to the throne when he found out she survived in Before the Storm.

    Rexxar is a hunter of the Unseen Path, but he's still a Horde character.

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by DotEleven View Post
    I mean, she's the daughter of the last Menethil king of the Alliance. Pretty sure she counts as an Alliance character. Heck, Anduin was ready to acknowledge her right to the throne when he found out she survived in Before the Storm.

    Rexxar is a hunter of the Unseen Path, but he's still a Horde character.
    Anduin was, sure, but she wasn't. She never actively 'joins' the Alliance and the only pro-Alliance thing she does is show up with Anduin to the meeting in Arathi, and that's because she directly was helping HIM set it up. And then she dies and is offscreen in Netherlight Temple with Alonsus Faol until 8.2.5 when she immediately says she's leaving Kul Tiras to go help the Forsaken.

    Rexxar officially joined the Horde. He's its literal canon champion of the Horde.
    Last edited by Yoshingo; 2019-10-15 at 05:46 PM.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    Anduin was, sure, but she wasn't. She never actively 'joins' the Alliance and the only pro-Alliance thing she does (And its kind of stretch to even say that's "pro-alliance") is show up with Anduin to the meeting in Arathi, and that's because she directly was helping HIM set it up.

    Rexxar officially joined the Horde. He's its literal canon champion of the Horde.
    You realize during that meeting she was (after showing herself) literally going to the people "hey, hey, come return to your families over here with the Alliance".

    Like, regardles she's still a member of the Alliance and technically it's rightful leader.

  8. #708
    You realize during that meeting she was (after showing herself) literally going to the people "hey, hey, come return to your families over here with the Alliance".
    ...you do realize this was after Parqual begged her to help him and the other Forsaken out, right?

    Also no, the Alliance of Lordaeron is not the current Alliance. Despite what people want to keep claiming. But I can see this thread is already a shitfest of Pro-Forsaken people being perpetually upset like every thread on MMO-Champion, so I'm out.

  9. #709
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Saying Calia isn't Alliance is like a level of comedy I am not prepared for.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  10. #710
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Saying Calia isn't Alliance is like a level of comedy I am not prepared for.
    That's a problem, since you'll not be prepared for the incoming "Calia was secretely Horde all along" either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    ...you do realize this was after Parqual begged her to help him and the other Forsaken out, right?

    Also no, the Alliance of Lordaeron is not the current Alliance. Despite what people want to keep claiming. But I can see this thread is already a shitfest of Pro-Forsaken people being perpetually upset like every thread on MMO-Champion, so I'm out.
    Ah, so Metzen's direct statements about the Alliance aren't canon. Who'd have thunk. What a shitfest we got here for thinking otherwise


    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    That's a problem, since you'll not be prepared for the incoming "Calia was secretely Horde all along" either.
    Calia burned Teldrassil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    That's a problem, since you'll not be prepared for the incoming "Calia was secretely Horde all along" either.
    She'll come up to the Forsaken and reveal her freshly made Horde arm tattoo.

  13. #713
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Saying Calia isn't Alliance is like a level of comedy I am not prepared for.
    Kind of depends on how you define "Alliance" in this context. I'd call Calia a neutral party - she was originally a member of the Conclave, a neutral order of Priests. She did work with Anduin, but not in an Alliance vs. Horde capacity, but more in humanitarian outreach to the Forsaken (which is in keeping with her role as a Priestess). She has friends among the Alliance due to her having been Human herself, but having Alliance or Horde friends does not itself declare oneself *for* a given faction. There's a marked "one drop of blue/red" type thinking that seems to prevail on these forums - that if you have any truck whatsoever with a given faction then you are of that faction, but that's not really a line of thought I agree with in most cases.

    I think Calia is closer to the Alliance than she is the Horde, both by virtue of her former status as a Human and generally in temperament, but I don't think she's patently a member of the Alliance nor a subject of Anduin. She's a neutral and a free agent, more or else; able to decide where she needs to be based on her own ethical compass.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  14. #714
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Kind of depends on how you define "Alliance" in this context. I'd call Calia a neutral party - she was originally a member of the Conclave, a neutral order of Priests. She did work with Anduin, but not in an Alliance vs. Horde capacity, but more in humanitarian outreach to the Forsaken (which is in keeping with her role as a Priestess). She has friends among the Alliance due to her having been Human herself, but having Alliance or Horde friends does not itself declare oneself *for* a given faction. There's a marked "one drop of blue/red" type thinking that seems to prevail on these forums - that if you have any truck whatsoever with a given faction then you are of that faction, but that's not really a line of thought I agree with in most cases.

    I think Calia is closer to the Alliance than she is the Horde, both by virtue of her former status as a Human and generally in temperament, but I don't think she's patently a member of the Alliance nor a subject of Anduin. She's a neutral and a free agent, more or else; able to decide where she needs to be based on her own ethical compass.
    Calia is like Valeera, Alliance but tries to come off as Neutral so they can go where they please. At best that's what I'd call Calia.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  15. #715
    I'd call Calia a neutral party - she was originally a member of the Conclave, a neutral order of Priests. She did work with Anduin, but not in an Alliance vs. Horde capacity, but more in humanitarian outreach to the Forsaken (which is in keeping with her role as a Priestess).
    Exactly this. But because she has 1 more blue drop than red, she gets considered an Alliance character. Which is absurd. She WAS neutral, very slightly Alliance-leaning (For reasons that seem entirely because Sylvanas fucking killed her) but now has swapped to the Forsaken in Sylvanas' absence, which is an interesting level of irony considering Sylvanas' paranoia about her in Before the Storm.

    Its also funny to see people apparently think that because the former citizens of Lordaeron hate Arthas that they therefore hate the Menethil line entirely, which has been consistently proven to be nonsensical. Both with how they still treat Terenas' memory with reverence, as well as directly in Before the Storm when we see some citizens think of Calia as a leader in a positive term, including Sylvanas, who is so threatened by her that she kills her.

    The Forsaken hate Arthas. They do not hate Terenas. And they do not hate Calia. And never have.
    Last edited by Yoshingo; 2019-10-15 at 08:15 PM.

  16. #716
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Calia is like Valeera, Alliance but tries to come off as Neutral so they can go where they please. At best that's what I'd call Calia.
    Valeera's allegiances are a bit more questionable than Calia's all told, I would say; she directly serves Anduin as his go-between and spy. While she hasn't declared officially for the Alliance I would say this is a distinction without a difference. Calia's ultimate loyalties are bit more unclear - her service to the Alliance has ostensibly dove-tailed with her role as a Priestess, in a not unexpected or surprising fashion. But she has no formal ties to the Alliance under Varian and now Anduin, and has been uninvolved with politics entirely until her unfortunate debacle at the Gathering. Valeera falls more heavily Alliance than Calia does, in my estimation.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Kind of depends on how you define "Alliance" in this context. I'd call Calia a neutral party - she was originally a member of the Conclave, a neutral order of Priests. She did work with Anduin, but not in an Alliance vs. Horde capacity, but more in humanitarian outreach to the Forsaken (which is in keeping with her role as a Priestess). She has friends among the Alliance due to her having been Human herself, but having Alliance or Horde friends does not itself declare oneself *for* a given faction. There's a marked "one drop of blue/red" type thinking that seems to prevail on these forums - that if you have any truck whatsoever with a given faction then you are of that faction, but that's not really a line of thought I agree with in most cases.

    I think Calia is closer to the Alliance than she is the Horde, both by virtue of her former status as a Human and generally in temperament, but I don't think she's patently a member of the Alliance nor a subject of Anduin. She's a neutral and a free agent, more or else; able to decide where she needs to be based on her own ethical compass.
    I mean, way before she was a member of the Conclave she was a member of the Alliance. She was it's princess... You know, Arthas's sister and all that.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by DotEleven View Post
    I mean, way before she was a member of the Conclave she was a member of the Alliance. She was it's princess... You know, Arthas's sister and all that.
    I'm glad at least Lillian framed it as "We need a leader & no one else wants to do it" because the "She's the next in line for the throne" isn't a great argument. It's been 30 since any line of royal succession has mattered & I don't think the Forsaken really care about it, especially when your monarchy ended in Murder & Plague & the person who did that is Calia's closest relative.

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I'm glad at least Lillian framed it as "We need a leader & no one else wants to do it" because the "She's the next in line for the throne" isn't a great argument. It's been 30 since any line of royal succession has mattered & I don't think the Forsaken really care about it, especially when your monarchy ended in Murder & Plague & the person who did that is Calia's closest relative.
    While the latter is bad, the first one is also bad, since the Forsaken don't even try to self-govern but immediately have their apparently one character since everyone else ceased to be go looking for someone who did bugger all for fifteen years to be their leader as they can't function without a leadership cult and all that about self-determination was apparently bullshit. Even more so that Voss gushes over her when the very first comment Calia makes is praising the dad Lilian was forced to kill.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  20. #720
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DotEleven View Post
    I mean, way before she was a member of the Conclave she was a member of the Alliance. She was it's princess... You know, Arthas's sister and all that.
    True, but way before the Third War the Blood Elves were also the High Elves, and were themselves members of the Alliance. Affiliations have always been fluid over time - and Calia was just a kid when Lordaeron was decimated by the Scourge and her father killed. I sincerely doubt she was in any way politically active within the Alliance.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2019-10-15 at 08:52 PM.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

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