new forsaken leader spoilers

[Ethas]

Do we know that Calia will become Forsaken leader for sure? I mean yeah we have these dialogs about rainbows, ponies and kisses but maybe, just maybe, someone is going to pop up magically and butcher the hell out of this girly walking corpse and be done with her?
Someone like Sylvanas.

[Atticon]

Do we know that Calia will become Forsaken leader for sure? I mean yeah we have these dialogs about rainbows, ponies and kisses but maybe, just maybe, someone is going to pop up magically and butcher the hell out of this girly walking corpse and be done with her?
Someone like Sylvanas.

They didn't go through all that trouble to reintroduce her and make her a new model just to kill her off immediately.
There are two big indications of what is about the happen, presumably in 8.3.5:

The first is that they've made a handover of the Calia story from the Alliance to the Horde. Horde players were initially not privy to Jaina's comment about Calia after BoD. Then Lilian Voss sends the Horde player to spy on a meeting which Alliance players also see in 8.2.5. Then in 8.3, Alliance players see her and Derek leave, while Horde players witness the meeting. The handover is now complete.
The second hint is in the turn-in quest text of the meeting. The word "honor" is prominently used. Here, Calia is being presented to Horde players as being honorable, and to the Horde, honor makes the world go round. This is to be the justification why the Horde Council would accept a stranger, a near Alliance plant in their midst: she has honor.

[MikeBogina]

Lilian Voss has appeared in Cata refusing what she was, an undead, she only got recovered recently but she still struggles. She couldn't believe who she was. So for a undead "recent recovered" turning into a leader wouldn't be that great. She has loads of struggles with it, she doesn't want to be a leader. She doesn't want to create a massive destruction into the world either, but she always fighted for undead and against necro and scarlet crusade.
She has been on all expansions here and bfa you have seen her more, she is not just "someone who only appeared now". Rather more like she appeared now recovered from her struggles.

Joined, not appeared. She's joined the Horde and Forsaken officially this expansion, same with Garona. But if you can point me to anything prior showing that she was a Forsaken member before this, then sure.

[Kokolums]

What identity? Care to elaborate?

The Forsaken were an extremely cool concept of a people tortured and abandoned in darkness. The horror of undeath and the shame of being left behind. Loneliness. Despair. It drove some to madness. Others to suicide. Some were strong enough to keep going. There's all kinds of stories to explore.

Nope. We're throwing it all away. Sylvanas is gone and replaced with LIGHTFORGED UNDEAD and the Menethils are back and now they will be part of the alliance again. Its basically all ruined. Its truly awful.

[Super Dickmann]

The second hint is in the turn-in quest text of the meeting. The word "honor" is prominently used. Here, Calia is being presented to Horde players as being honorable, and to the Horde, honor makes the world go round. This is to be the justification why the Horde Council would accept a stranger, a near Alliance plant in their midst: she has honor.

Every leader on either faction has honor. That alone is not a distinguishing mark between factions. Hell, Saurfang needed to be told what honor was by a teenager from the opposite faction because he didn't buy it. Honor is not a qualifier to be a Horde leader since the Alliance was already the arbiter of what Horde honor is and isn't and is more knowledgeable of it since Varian's last words at Mists. Calia would not only fit better on the Alliance, the fleabitten carcass that was the Forsaken belongs there as well, given that the idea of a heroic kingdom of exiles overcoming a functionally cosmetic curse that got them mistrusted once but not anymore, united in a monarch who's bloodline stems from the Second War and who's capital was destroyed by Sylvanas is a pitch perfect summary of both them and the worgen.

[Darkeon]

What identity? Care to elaborate?

I think @Kokolums did a good job describing the Forsaken Faction's Indentity.

In all cases, whether or not you are adamant that they had absolutely barely any personality and that the few they had was around Sylvanas, (if Calia does indeed come to power) having someone who's story is being an undead of LIGHT as their leader, is quite the change. Like straight up 360º (huehue) type of change!

[Syegfryed]

Hahaha, the best two races in WoW(Night Elves(who were even more butchered in the WoW overall) and Forsaken) are getting butchered in BFA in the name of... peace/balance/whatever!

Awesome!

thats why they deserve this fate, for thinking this

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the whole problem with Callia bullshit is that she is an "undead of light" and mostly alliance they managed to butcher a story who could be epic, menethil becoming an undead and leading then in dead, but not like Artha was such cool concept

[Eazy]

thats why they deserve this fate, for thinking this

Can't say that NE were not awesome pre-WoW!



Anyway, that's Grom avatar from Wc3:R? Looks cool.

[Darkeon]

Im all open for changes.

Sylv its not like the other undeads anyway. And just used them all this time.

There are changes and then there are CHANGES. That was clearly the point of my post~

[Fetus Rex]

Will Arthas come back to succeed his sister? I would like that.

[Evilfish]

Look at ESO and SWTOR they repeatedly need to have everyone working together because you can't maintain a perma conflict between player factions. I'm sure there are other faction games but those are the two I remembered offhand. The mother fucking Empire and Republic have worked together......

The elder scrolls series were never about warring factions, unlike SWTOR who, after the peace bullshit they did, have to go back to faction conflict cause it turns out it's not very interesting when everyone is fighting the "greater threat". Hell Star Wars have always been about light vs dark, jedi vs sith, red vs blue, a lot like WoW. Way to crap on your own argument.

[Syegfryed]

Anyway, that's Grom avatar from Wc3:R? Looks cool.

yep, there are some nasty avatars to use here

[Super Dickmann]

yep, there are some nasty avatars to use here

The avatars are on point. It and the Saurfang cinematics reminds me of how 'polished' orcs've gotten over the years, if you get what I mean.

[Syegfryed]

The avatars are on point. It and the Saurfang cinematics reminds me of how 'polished' orcs've gotten over the years, if you get what I mean.

especially thrall, that old model was horrendous.

But yeah, this Grom is rly what i imagine when i think about orcs, since no one knew the bugbear i used before and confused with an orc might as well change it.

(they forgot i think his jaw was completely black too, as far i remember him in wc3, they are using the wod pattern, and for me its a bad signal)

[qwerty123456]

The elder scrolls series were never about warring factions, unlike SWTOR who, after the peace bullshit they did, have to go back to faction conflict cause it turns out it's not very interesting when everyone is fighting the "greater threat". Hell Star Wars have always been about light vs dark, jedi vs sith, red vs blue, a lot like WoW. Way to crap on your own argument.

They worked together a bunch of times in SWTOR because you can't have a sustained conflict that continues without breaks. So yeah it doesn't "crap on my own argument" as you so eloquently put it. Give me an example where any game has successfully done it. You can't. Even SWTOR needed a break otherwise its just dwindling resources and back and forth losses with no explanations on how after destroying millions of people and ships they can continue to muster massive fleets. And you can't just have battle get smaller and smaller cause the players wont like it.

Star wars is literally a fairy tale about good versus evil and even they needed a break from the factions fighting.

[Dagoth Ur]

BFA's deliberate failure in one area and accidental failure in the other will ensure all stories to come will ultimately about flawless heroes punching Satan before Satan can do jack shit. And that's terrible.

This is probably the main reason which confuses me why they so abrubtly went for the Unifaction. Without going to deep into it, I get that Unifaction checks all the boxes Blizzard pushes/needs for the franchise in it's current state, from both in and out of universe perspective, but are we really going to be constantly locked into those kind of stories from now on?

I remember back in the day how I thought Unifaction as something Blizzard would do only when they deemed it's time to pull a plug on the franchise and we're about to fight the biggest of the bads - probably Legion, so after it's done Warcraft can have it's sweet, love spreading ending they obviously are dying for.

Really makes me wonder what the next few expacs are going to look like narrative-wise.

[therealbowser]

Sounds like there will be a lot of contraversy in the Forsaken between those that believed in and followed Sylvanas, and those that just want to live in peace, making Calia's job very hard and giving the Forsaken an opportunity for interesting lore and growth as a faction.

But nah, it's obviously just "forsaken are dead". Well, to be fair, they are dead, but you know.

[Mehrunes]

Sounds like there will be a lot of contraversy in the Forsaken between those that believed in and followed Sylvanas, and those that just want to live in peace, making Calia's job very hard and giving the Forsaken an opportunity for interesting lore and growth as a faction.

But nah, it's obviously just "forsaken are dead". Well, to be fair, they are dead, but you know.

Blizzard never even bothered to explore the difference in world views between OG Forsaken and post-Cata Forsaken. And you seriously are going to pretend they will bother exploring any differences between Forsaken that adored Sylvanas and those who just wanted to live their unlife when the former clash with the unification they are pushing hard?

There will be no difficulty to Calia's rule. Any and all Forsaken will instantaneously get turned into Light-worshipping sad sack that always secretly wanted Calia to come and hug them, which they hid only because of that pesky Sylvanas that didn't even let them remember Lordaeron (while using their Lordaeronian heritage to motivate the Forsaken in the previous faction war). Just like all the Horde members (the majority of them even) that started 8.2.5 on Sylvanas' side instantaneously forgot about all the bad blood between them and the Alliance five seconds later.

[therealbowser]

Blizzard never even bothered to explore the difference in world views between OG Forsaken and post-Cata Forsaken. And you seriously are going to pretend they will bother exploring any differences between Forsaken that adored Sylvanas and those who just wanted to live their unlife when the former clash with the unification they are pushing hard?

There will be no difficulty to Calia's rule. Any and all Forsaken will instantaneously get turned into Light-worshipping sad sack that always secretly wanted Calia to come and hug them, which they hid only because of that pesky Sylvanas that didn't even let them remember Lordaeron (while using their Lordaeronian heritage to motivate the Forsaken in the previous faction war). Just like all the Horde members (the majority of them even) that started 8.2.5 on Sylvanas' side instantaneously forgot about all the bad blood between them and the Alliance five seconds later.

Your extreme pessimism is noted.

We'll see how it actually plays out later. Not that I believe that Blizzard has an amazing lore team, but to ignore something like this is unbelievably boring and bad.

My believe is a lot more reasonable: I think they'll drop the ball on this and not elaborate on it as much as they should, but it will be there. There will be conflicts and likely there will be forsaken that rise up against Calia, perhaps even violently. They are literally taking someone with strong connections to the Alliance and putting them in as leader of one of the most openly violent factions of the Horde. If it worked perfectly, it would be ridiculous, let alone how much potential there is for story growth just thrown away, something they direly need to play off of to keep this game going.

[zknm7]

Oh get off your non existent high horse. No one fucking said anything about change being scary. But I see you have nothing else than sad straw-man in rebuttal to the inorganic character of the change in question.

Look at mah High Horse, mah High Horse is UHMAZING!!!!