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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They didn't make a political stand here though.
    They did.

    Sorry but you nor blizzard gets to fence ride. You both chose your sides.

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They didn't make a political stand here though. They did the very opposite by not making one at all. They took the neutral stance of simply enforcing their rules with no statement either way.
    There's nothing "neutral" about that... especially considering the extremity of the punishment for said "rule broken". If he had a 6 month ban, tops, I'd possibly agree with you. But to have his entire rank and winnings witheld? That's downright vindictive, excessive and unnecessary based purely on the rules they're using.

    EDIT: and, as others above pointed out - the mere act of punishing for a political view (especially when it wasn't calling out for violence) IS a political stance via Blizzard.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspark View Post
    Destiny 2 is no longer under Activision, it's solely Bungie now. I don't know how they did it, but they got it completely out from under their yoke.
    Simple: Activision never owned Bungie, they merely acted as a publisher. When that publishing contract ended, Bungie chose not to renew.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mvaliz View Post
    But to have his entire rank and winnings witheld? That's downright vindictive, excessive and unnecessary based purely on the rules they're using.
    The rule they used actually leaves very little room for discretion on that point:

    Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image will result in removal from Grandmasters and reduction of the player’s prize total to $0 USD, in addition to other remedies which may be provided for under the Handbook and Blizzard’s Website Terms

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Simple: Activision never owned Bungie, they merely acted as a publisher. When that publishing contract ended, Bungie chose not to renew.
    The contract was 10 years, so it didn't end. Bungie bought the contract out, which likely means there is a large stress on bungie to succeed now because they likely ate up a lot of debt with that move, and no longer have activision to point fingers at.

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    The rule they used actually leaves very little room for discretion on that point:
    So, the parts they're using is "Blizzard's sole Discretion" and "Offends a portion or group of the public", translating into "Blizzard chooses Chinese government that is offended by his stance."

    Yeah, total bullshit. The rules are written there clearly for things like Racism, Bigotry, ect...

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by mvaliz View Post
    So, the parts they're using is "Blizzard's sole Discretion" and "Offends a portion or group of the public", translating into "Blizzard chooses Chinese government that is offended by his stance."

    Yeah, total bullshit. The rules are written there clearly for things like Racism, Bigotry, ect...
    Enforcement is at their discretion, but the punishment is rather explicit ("will result in... reduction of the player's prize total to $0 USD").

    Again, though, to refer back to my previous post, Blizzard had no good options here. To go against China would be to potentially lose the entire market, take an enormous financial hit, be forced to lay off dozens if not hundreds of people, and get crucified by their shareholders. I'm not taking China's side in this matter, simply recognizing that this was a no-win scenario for Blizzard.

  7. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    It's worse than that, because China has been rife with human rights violations for, what, decades...and Blizzard has been working with Chinese companies for years while these same people happily consumed their products. But suddenly someone they've never heard about gets banned from a tournament they weren't watching for pulling a political stunt, and everyone loses their minds.
    And reddit, and lol, and fortnite ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    The rule they used actually leaves very little room for discretion on that point:
    Some will use the loss of money in China as an acceptable reason for their decision, but most aren't acting like this was anything but an over reaction for a specific reason. The fact is there are a lot of media companies censoring games and movies made in the west, even with most of their profits made here, solely because the CCP does not approve and use their leverage as either financiers or with the promise of future markets to enforce this. In the new version of Top Gun, they took the Japanese and Taiwanese flags off of Tom Cruise's flight jacket for crying out loud!

    But people will defend the entertainment industry in a way they never would for the average corporation. Its disturbing to see the kind of rationalizing a lot of people are doing here. Funny enough, it does not seem to divide along right / left lines as usual, so that is something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    It's worse than that, because China has been rife with human rights violations for, what, decades...and Blizzard has been working with Chinese companies for years while these same people happily consumed their products. But suddenly someone they've never heard about gets banned from a tournament they weren't watching for pulling a political stunt, and everyone loses their minds.
    Its about letting an authoritarian regime censor media in other countries. In Korea, in Taiwan, and now in the US. If Blizzard, the other game companies, and Hollywood would rather appease the CCP first and then try to work us to accept that then maybe they should just move there. Hong Kong and all the other problems the PRC has are important, but its different when its happening in your own country and you can do something about it.

  9. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marakesh View Post
    Its about letting an authoritarian regime censor media in other countries. In Korea, in Taiwan, and now in the US. If Blizzard, the other game companies, and Hollywood would rather appease the CCP first and then try to work us to accept that then maybe they should just move there. Hong Kong and all the other problems the PRC has are important, but its different when its happening in your own country and you can do something about it.
    Private company, dont like it dont buy it, businesses exist to make money etc etc

    Did i miss anything?

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They didn't make a political stand here though. They did the very opposite by not making one at all. They took the neutral stance of simply enforcing their rules with no statement either way. That is completely different then coming out in support of something. It is perfectly fine for getting blow back for remaining neutral. But that isn't what you and others are complaining about.

    Blizzard choose not to take a stance on the subject after being forced into it.
    “You can choose a ready guide,
    From some celestial voice
    But if you choose not to decide
    You still have made a choice,”
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #571
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    "Every voice matters*"




    *Unless it pisses off China, then fuck you.

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They didn't make a political stand here though. They did the very opposite by not making one at all.
    Not making a stand is still making a stand.

    Its them turning a blind eye and throwing away what they claim to believe in. The words that they literally have placed outside their company mean nothing if it effects their bottom line.

    EVEN FUCKEN EPIC GAMES has even stated they would never censor a Fortnite player and Tencent owns 49.8% of their shares.
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2019-10-10 at 04:36 AM.
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  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Marakesh View Post
    Some will use the loss of money in China as an acceptable reason for their decision,
    The shareholders absolutely would, and they're ultimately who they Blizzard has to answer to at the end of the day. As a publicly-traded company, they don't have the option of unilaterally risking a significant percentage of their business on taking a moral stand. It's a shitty reality, but it's the reality nonetheless. They have to make the decision that's best for their business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    FUCKEN EPIC GAMES has even stated they would never censor a Fortnite player and Tencent owns 49.8% of their shares.
    I hate to say it, but this is one of those things that's really easy to say when they're not the ones in an impossible position of having to suddenly choose between their business and their morals.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    I hate to say it, but this is one of those things that's really easy to say when they're not the ones in an impossible position of having to suddenly choose between their business and their morals.
    You would have a point any other time but not here.

    Tencent own's 49.8% of Epic Games shares, Just them saying they wouldn't have censored it is a risk to their money. Tencent is the biggest gaming company in China and how everyone gets into that market.

    For them to come out and say (we would not have done that) actually did put them at risk.

    The shareholders absolutely would, and they're ultimately who they Blizzard has to answer to at the end of the day. As a publicly-traded company, they don't have the option of unilaterally risking a significant percentage of their business on taking a moral stand.
    And yet they risk losing a different part of their market because they did make a stand. Them banning the kid,taking his winnings and firing the announcers was them making a stand.
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  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Private company
    Public Company actually.

  16. #576
    “We are very angered and disappointed at what happened at the event and don’t condone it in any way. We also highly object the spreading of personal and political beliefs in this manner. Effective immediately we’ve banned the contestant from events and terminated work with the broadcasters. We will always respect and defend the pride of OUR country.”
    The message posted on the chinese version of Blizzard.net.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, I think a company should be legally allowed to refuse to serve black people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Right now the left is fact based

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by Malaky View Post
    The message posted on the chinese version of Blizzard.net.
    tbf with full transparency that statement was made by netease who distributes for blizzard in china, not blizzard directly. Still a bad look tho.

  18. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They didn't make a political stand here though. They did the very opposite by not making one at all. They took the neutral stance of simply enforcing their rules with no statement either way. That is completely different then coming out in support of something. It is perfectly fine for getting blow back for remaining neutral. But that isn't what you and others are complaining about.

    Blizzard choose not to take a stance on the subject after being forced into it.
    Actually, they did take a stance by towing china's line immediately, harshly, and without prompting. They're against everything the western world stands for. Freedom, diversity, human rights. Blizzard does not believe in any of these, they should just get their trash-heap of a campus out of Irvine and ship out to Beijing.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    Actually, they did take a stance by towing china's line immediately, harshly, and without prompting. They're against everything the western world stands for. Freedom, diversity, human rights. Blizzard does not believe in any of these, they should just get their trash-heap of a campus out of Irvine and ship out to Beijing.
    The western world stands for diversity? That sure isn't noticeable.
    Last edited by Avskildhet; 2019-10-10 at 04:51 AM.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    You would have a point any other time but not here.

    Tencent own's 49.8% of Epic Games shares, Just them saying they wouldn't have censored it is a risk to their money. Tencent is the biggest gaming company in China and how everyone gets into that market.

    For them to come out and say (we would not have done that) actually did put them at risk.
    I'm well aware of Tencent's stake in the company. It still costs them nothing to say that, because Tencent can easily and happily stay silent, let them say what they want in America that will never get transmitted over to mainland China, and remain secure in the knowledge that they can put lie to that statement if Epic ever winds up in a similar situation. Because let's me realistic: if Epic IS ever in a similar situation, do you really think that Tencent WOULDN'T force them to respond in a similar manner?

    But then, let's be realistic: the real concern is not Tencent, but the Chinese government, which gets to decide whether or not to allow any foreign company to operate within their borders. Tencent is a business and their only concern is maximizing their return, not that their investments toe the party line.

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