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  1. #1161
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So are not all players of Blizzard games morally bankrupt for supporting the company? I am not blindly defending them but I am also not blindly hating them. You have over 2,000 posts in general discussions. That means you are just as morally bankrupt any employee of Blizzard because you've supported them over the years. So why haven't you whined about yourself? This is prime example of a hypocrite in this case.
    Posting here does not = giving Blizzard money. And since I use WoW tokens for my sub, I don't give them a dime of my own money. And when my current sub runs out, I am done.
    Last edited by rrayy; 2019-10-13 at 11:27 PM.

  2. #1162
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    If I could solve the world's problems by not playing a video game believe me I'd stop playing video games. Like I said, rather than talking in circles and arguing on the internet, people in Hong Kong would be better served by people focusing their outrage into something productive. But not many people are willing to give up their comfort or their money to make a difference. It's easier to talk.
    But this is productive...i think? Is it not?

    Its the freedom of many people that is at stake...which in 2047 (i know a long ass away) will lose all freedom and will backtrack from having freedom to not having freedom at all.
    AND if it wasnt for the protests, you are familiar with the law they wanted to pass?
    They wanted to sneak in into HK mainland China's rules. They wanted, in some cases, for Hong Kong people to face trial by mainland China laws..which would effectively be the same thing as living in a country without freedom

    The sneaky bastards.

    If it wasnt for the protests...they would be fucked before year 2047
    Last edited by Roanda; 2019-10-13 at 11:34 PM.

  3. #1163
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I am not entirely sure. Personally I am of the opinion that a small amount of out rage is fine. But we are not talking about the minor stuff but all the extreme out rage. Its not like Blizzard even came out on the side of China here. They just enforced a rule. A rule that may be overly harsh but existed with out controversy for a while. They have clearly learned with their statement.

    But like I said reasonable responses are not what are making some hypocrites.
    They didn't come out on the side of China? They practically begged forgiveness and were groveling at the Chinese government's feet with the statement they released there. They only reason they "enforced the rule" is because they feared China would cost them a ton of money. It had absolutely ZERO to do with the actual rule. Ask yourself this, if he had said something supporting President Trump's impeachment, would they have done anything? No they would not have. The rule is a convenient cop out to hide behind.

  4. #1164
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Hypothetically, if removing Blizzard games from mainland China would mean the freedom of Hong Kong...would you do it?

    I would do it if i had the power.
    One side lost a videogame
    Other side got freedom.

    I would push the button.
    I don't think I would. Because that's not an all sides win. I don't believe in what's basically "you can't please all people." style. I'd work on a way that would do both and ignore the trap. (No one loses video games and people get freedoms.)

    Either or style situations are basically traps in long term.

  5. #1165
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I don't think I would. Because that's not an all sides win. I don't believe in what's basically "you can't please all people." style. I'd work on a way that would do both and ignore the trap. (No one loses video games and people get freedoms.)

    Either or style situations are basically traps in long term.
    You do realize you have to literally Fight an entire country's armada (mainland China) to give freedom to all?
    Very rare in life we have "win win" situations ive learned this the hard way myself

  6. #1166
    Fluffy Kitten Remilia's Avatar
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    The whataboutism is getting kind of old...

    Honestly the one thing I encourage people to do is to avoid as much "made in China" products. It's not the easiest thing and will be pretty restrictive.

    Some examples.
    Phone wise, you can buy from Sony, Samsung or LG. Sony mobile is Thailand. Samsung is India, South Korea and Vietnam (India one tends to be sold in India). LG is now Vietnam. Assuming I'm remembering correctly, they moved around a bunch this year.

    Headphones. Sony I know comes from Malaysia for their WF/WH lines, unsure about the others. Samsung I believe comes from Vietnam.

    Computer parts gets trickier though.
    For the most part, DRAM comes from South Korea, US or Japan. It does tend to get assembled all over the place though.
    Motherboard is absurdly hard to come by cheaply outside of China. Asus and Gigabyte (iirc) have some factories in Taiwan but they're not all of it, so it's quite hard to find out where's what.
    GPU, same thing applies from above.
    SSD, actually unsure, forgot which comes from where. Could just go with Crucial or Samsung iirc... (don't quote me on this :P)
    CPU, it's going to be either manufactured by Intel (US or Israel) or AMD (TSMC, Taiwan's).
    PSU you'll have trouble finding bar the obvious Coolermaster MIJ (made in Japan) one that's basically server quality and absurdly expensive. SeaSonic had lines in their Taiwan factories but you'll need to research to find out which are from where. Similar designs that move to China typically also get a name change.
    Monitors, guaranteed ones are Eizo. They're made in Japan (love my Eizo FG2421 ) they're also expensive to boot but really well built, which imo is worth it. BenQ has facilities in Mexico, Malaysia, Taiwan and China, so it's a toss up there.
    Keyboard, get a Ducky, made in Taiwan. They're also awesomely built.
    Last edited by Remilia; 2019-10-14 at 12:06 AM.

  7. #1167
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Posting here does not = giving Blizzard money. And since I use WoW tokens for my sub, I don't give them a dime of my own money. And when my current sub runs out, I am done.
    So you posted here with out playing the game at all. Nope. It shows your level of interest in the game which usually corresponds to playing it at some time. Buying a token is still giving money to blizzard. You actually give them more money because a token costs more then a subscription. $5 extra if in the US. It doesn't matter if it is a dime of your own money it is still revenue for Blizzard that you are enabling.

    So that still makes you morally bankrupt as a person for supporting Blizzards doing business with China over the years. Including self censoring their game and marketing so it can be approved for business in China. And yet you are resisting calling yourself morally bankrupt. I wonder why? Why resist it when you just labeled all Blizzard employees morally bankrupt for being complicity in what the company does.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    They only reason they "enforced the rule" is because they feared China would cost them a ton of money. It had absolutely ZERO to do with the actual rule. Ask yourself this, if he had said something supporting President Trump's impeachment, would they have done anything? No they would not have. The rule is a convenient cop out to hide behind.
    Prove it. Until your prove you just have speculation. What I say is just as true as what you say. The actual punishment and all statements by Blizzard have everything to do with the actual rule. You are right the rule is a convenient cop out to hide behind. But it is you, and others, and not not Blizzard that is using it to hide behind. Everything points to them doing the same if it was anti-trump statements.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #1168
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So you posted here with out playing the game at all. Nope. It shows your level of interest in the game which usually corresponds to playing it at some time. Buying a token is still giving money to blizzard. You actually give them more money because a token costs more then a subscription. $5 extra if in the US. It doesn't matter if it is a dime of your own money it is still revenue for Blizzard that you are enabling.

    So that still makes you morally bankrupt as a person for supporting Blizzards doing business with China over the years. Including self censoring their game and marketing so it can be approved for business in China. And yet you are resisting calling yourself morally bankrupt. I wonder why? Why resist it when you just labeled all Blizzard employees morally bankrupt for being complicity in what the company does.
    Yeah, so morally bankrupt to play games made by Blizzard.

    Yikes my dude.

  9. #1169
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So you posted here with out playing the game at all. Nope. It shows your level of interest in the game which usually corresponds to playing it at some time. Buying a token is still giving money to blizzard. You actually give them more money because a token costs more then a subscription. $5 extra if in the US. It doesn't matter if it is a dime of your own money it is still revenue for Blizzard that you are enabling.

    So that still makes you morally bankrupt as a person for supporting Blizzards doing business with China over the years. Including self censoring their game and marketing so it can be approved for business in China. And yet you are resisting calling yourself morally bankrupt. I wonder why? Why resist it when you just labeled all Blizzard employees morally bankrupt for being complicity in what the company does.
    Showing interest does not = supporting Blizzard. Also, buying a WoW token = not giving them any of my money. So, I haven't been giving them any of my money and when my sub runs out, they won't be getting my business at all. So I am not supporting a morally bankrupt company in any financial way and haven't been.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Prove it. Until your prove you just have speculation. What I say is just as true as what you say. The actual punishment and all statements by Blizzard have everything to do with the actual rule. You are right the rule is a convenient cop out to hide behind. But it is you, and others, and not not Blizzard that is using it to hide behind. Everything points to them doing the same if it was anti-trump statements.
    Prove it. I GUARANTEE Blizzard wouldn't have done anything to a Trump protestor because it wouldn't cost them money. That is all they care about. Blizzard has a long history of only caring about money.

  10. #1170
    Saw some article a few days ago that seemed to suggest China is finally wising up to the fact their efforts to censor speech outside of China has an overall counterproductive impact as stories like this flood the news and social media, which tends to rile more people up against your state than some random guy chanting a slogan. Really adds to my point how dumb it was for Blizzard to handle this situation like they did because it's literally worse for China than just pretending it never happened and getting on with their silly tournament like normal.

  11. #1171
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Showing interest does not = supporting Blizzard. Also, buying a WoW token = not giving them any of my money. So, I haven't been giving them any of my money and when my sub runs out, they won't be getting my business at all. So I am not supporting a morally bankrupt company in any financial way and haven't been.
    So it is okay to support a morally bankrupt company if you don't use your money. Gotcha. Have to use a middle man so you come out clean. Any excuse so your argument won't apply to you. By using tokens you are enabling blizzard to get an extra $5 per subscription. So you are actually supporting them even then if you just used your $15 a month.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #1172
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Saw some article a few days ago that seemed to suggest China is finally wising up to the fact their efforts to censor speech outside of China has an overall counterproductive impact as stories like this flood the news and social media, which tends to rile more people up against your state than some random guy chanting a slogan. Really adds to my point how dumb it was for Blizzard to handle this situation like they did because it's literally worse for China than just pretending it never happened and getting on with their silly tournament like normal.
    Except they aren't. The NBA is proof of that.

  13. #1173
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Prove it. I GUARANTEE Blizzard wouldn't have done anything to a Trump protestor because it wouldn't cost them money because that is all they care about. Blizzard has a long history of only caring about money.
    It can't be proven. Just like you can't prove what you are guaranteeing. If you could prove it then you would have already provided it rather then making a dumb all caps guarantee. What are you even going to put up with collateral? Yes Blizzard has a long history of only caring about money. But that is moot since you've been supporting them over the years despite it.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #1174
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So it is okay to support a morally bankrupt company if you don't use your money. Gotcha. Have to use a middle man so you come out clean. Any excuse so your argument won't apply to you. By using tokens you are enabling blizzard to get an extra $5 per subscription. So you are actually supporting them even then if you just used your $15 a month.
    I don't use them anymore. I am done and J Allen Brack's statement full of BS makes it even easier to be done.

  15. #1175
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Saw some article a few days ago that seemed to suggest China is finally wising up to the fact their efforts to censor speech outside of China has an overall counterproductive impact as stories like this flood the news and social media, which tends to rile more people up against your state than some random guy chanting a slogan. Really adds to my point how dumb it was for Blizzard to handle this situation like they did because it's literally worse for China than just pretending it never happened and getting on with their silly tournament like normal.
    You mean this?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/b...t-the-nba.html

    "Now, the Chinese government appears to be reassessing its campaign against the N.B.A. and dialing down the clamor. The government is already in a bruising trade war with the United States, and a backlash against China could hurt its image in the sporting world ahead of the 2022 Winter Olympics near Beijing."

    Please share if was something else i would love to READ it!

  16. #1176
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I don't use them anymore. I am done and J Allen Brack's statement full of BS makes it even easier to be done.
    But you were using them. Nothing last week changed what Blizzard does with China. So you are just as morally bankrupt as anyone at Blizzard for supporting Blizzard with everything they have done in China.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    You do realize you have to literally Fight an entire country's armada (mainland China) to give freedom to all?
    Very rare in life we have "win win" situations ive learned this the hard way myself
    I kind of get that but it still feels wrong even if it is in a round about way to punish people for just being alive in the wrong place. I know business gonna business but pullouts, sanctions etc never really do anything to those who need to be punished, if these and sanctions did work we'd have got rid of Putin, PRC, Kim dynasty years ago. But in the end all it ever does is hurt the people who don't have a say and most of the time backfires. I know you can't compare playing games with human rights. Though at the same time it still feels like pulling out of china would punish people who have no say.

    If you gave me a button that said "Hong Kong free." with "High PRC members will all be shown on daytime tv being dragged through the streets." I'd press the button and grab the popcorn, press it again more times for good measure (I mean I would like the entire communist party destroyed. But China has a history of civil wars if change happens far too quickly). I know people that left HK around the time of the handover and work with them along with donating to international charities so people of HK are as safe as possible.

    I'm more mad at Google and Apple than I am at blizzard over China and HK. Blizzard basically banned a player and didn't reign in Netease when it made the Weibo statement (which no one can be 100% sure if even Netease wrote that or Weibo edited the fuck out of it like the do with anything that has a foreign logo on to make it seem like a china number 1 style post. Also not sure what any kind of statement on it would have done that wouldn't fan a flame in one direction. As for the AU thing, that was if they banned people would rebel, if they didn't people would rebel.), it's shitty. But the other two plus others have actually put lives in danger by pulling off apps that protestors use to keep themselves safe. That's magnitudes worse. When it comes to google and people using Youtube to slam blizzard to me it feels like false outrage.

    Basically rallying behind a cause while actually going against your cause by using a platform that's owned by a company that is guilty of all the same things plus more. To me at least it actually feels more like "How can I make internet points and money off rage." if they're using google owned platform for the message, or use apple products at the same time which most of these people are, especially people like Heelsvsbabyface when everything he does is post anti blizzard, add commercials every 5 minutes in the video, since he can't function in a real job and lost a ton of money when he stopped playing wow (Taliesin had the best show about that with him saying he hates bananas and every five minutes Evitel finds him eating one and complaining about eating bananas when all he has to do is top eating bananas.). It's like Sideshow Bob in the Simpson's using TV to cry about TV then trying to cop out with "I know the Irony.".

    As for going forward. Imo as much as I doubt Brack banned Blitz, decided on the initial punishment etc (I'm sure that was done in Taiwan) behind the scenes he and people around him should find a way to get him a payoff for him to fall on his sword so to speak. He may not have done anything personally but he's the face of it and it's on him. Don't let the number be released (even if it was something like $1m it won't look good). Beg Morhaime to come back to steady the ship, he's like, he's presentable, he's media savvy. Everything Brack wasn't even before "You think you do but you don't.". If you're going to be the face you have to be known to the public and at least liked by a certain %. I mean Metzen if it was a figurehead position would be perfect. Loved, Charismatic to a fault, some story guys may have issues but that's about it.

    Maybe 2-3 years of leave Brack could come back at a mid tier level, he did things right before. It's just the position of President when it comes with being a face doesn't work with someone that really isn't media savvy.
    Last edited by Kallisto; 2019-10-14 at 12:39 AM.

  18. #1178
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    You mean this?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/b...t-the-nba.html

    "Now, the Chinese government appears to be reassessing its campaign against the N.B.A. and dialing down the clamor. The government is already in a bruising trade war with the United States, and a backlash against China could hurt its image in the sporting world ahead of the 2022 Winter Olympics near Beijing."

    Please share if was something else i would love to READ it!
    All they are doing is telling their media to stop talking about the NBA in hopes the outrage will go away. There isn't one mention that the government is changing it's own tactics. Yep, they are really changing their ways.

  19. #1179
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    You mean this?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/b...t-the-nba.html

    "Now, the Chinese government appears to be reassessing its campaign against the N.B.A. and dialing down the clamor. The government is already in a bruising trade war with the United States, and a backlash against China could hurt its image in the sporting world ahead of the 2022 Winter Olympics near Beijing."

    Please share if was something else i would love to READ it!
    Yeah, that looks like it. Looks like China got all the sports fans riled up with that one and all the gamers with this one.

    Kind of a joke they get to host the Olympics though with all 'issues'. But I guess everyone always knew the Olympics were corrupt, especially after Brazil.

  20. #1180
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Its morally gray...if even is gray at all.
    Doing business with people against freedom of speech and therefore against human rights.

    What will happen in 2047 when the contract with China expires?
    Will Hong Kong lose all freedom?

    I cant help feeling sorry for Hong Kong.
    China has condemned the Hong Kong protests as "behaviour that is close to terrorism" when they are only trying to have basic human rights.
    Except blizzard is not doing business with people against freedom of speech. Blizzard is doing with citizens who are being silenced by their government.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    So? Sucks to be them then. If they have a problem with it, then maybe they should rise up and take care of what cost them the chance. That is the only way it will stop. The whole world is complicit in this.
    How ironic this post is...
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

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