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  1. #121
    I guess they just needed to even the odds for the final fight.

    It's just a shame they do so in very shoddy writing...

  2. #122
    yupp, and to top it off, we even hear horde leaders moaning about not having tropps and "the alliance closing in" in the cinematic right afte the dazar alor raid.
    It gives the impression of horde being on the run as if alliance is an unstoppable force.

    Then the story does a 180 turn where sylvanas destroys the entire allaince army in duskwood and burns down teldrassil... how? Not a fucking clue...

    But then all of a sudden we ahve troops again, a bunch of ships chasing one lone horde ship when azshara decides to flash her titties at us and say "come get me i also got free beer".

    And now aparently the alliance is pretty much done for by the sounds of anduin. Wer like the rebels in starwars. Yet for some weird reason we are besiegeing orgrimmar?!?!?!?

    This mages no sence.. i hate this storywriting.. as a player i ahve no diea wtf is going on.. everywhere i go i see only landsliding victorys for the alliance. yet every cinematic i see were apparently being slaughtered..
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2019-10-15 at 10:19 AM.
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  3. #123
    A big part was probably becouse Alliance couldnt raise the dead like Sylvanas did, kinda hard to fight someone that can just raise all the dead on both sides after the battle and hey new army.

  4. #124
    Scarab Lord Kuja's Avatar
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    Can't say about others, but I started to play as horde after warmode was so broken for alliance.

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  5. #125
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnluckyAmateur View Post
    its ok, they'll release a book in like 3-4 years explaining how the majority of the army was off dying some stupid way. That'll improve the storytelling!
    They al caught yellow fever in Zandalar.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You do realize it was AFTER Dazar'alor but before Azshara that the Alliance were winning, right? Not before. If you're going to try to slam writers at least try to not be blatantly wrong.
    The Alliance were winning because they killed a cursed Troll king by the skin of their teeth after using a diversion to draw the Horde forces up to an empty swamp? And then got routed while fleeing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorqin View Post
    Their navy was decimated in Nazjatar, their army was down to conscripted farmers during the events of 2nd cinematic. Most of the Night Elven population was wiped out at Telderasil. What do you expect to be left?

    The Alliance also didn't gain much of a huge population via an allied race. Void Elves, Lightforged, and Dark Iron Dwarves are few in numbers, only Kul'Tiras had a substantial population. The Horde allied races came with much larger populations, and as a result larger armies, which put the Alliance at a numeric disadvantage.

    So yeah, not really sure why anybody would be confused by the massive Alliance military losses. It's one of the few things Blizzard has remained oddly consistent in.
    Keep in mind as well that orcs are approximately 1.5x taller than a human and weigh about 3x as much. A single orc can take 3 humans in hand-to-hand combat easily. The humans can even be armed while the orc is barehanded. Think gorilla with a ragdoll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    ...what, precisely, was their "tech advantage?"
    If you had watched any of the BFA cinematics, you know the Horde had developed "an azerite-powered war machine" that decimated Alliance troops.

    Two patches later the Alliance had developed their own knockoff... which gets routed by Horde randoms doing world quests.

    However, none of the other content/cutscenes shows the Horde using these war machines or the impact it is having on the battlefield.
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  7. #127
    Because they need to find some way to keep pretending the Horde and Alliance have equal numbers.

    Otherwise they would have to write the Alliance as actually winning.

  8. #128
    Because horde in mop lost so much while alliance only lost their "Eccess" from Theramore. And what i meant by saying eccess is that From the start Alliance got one big city more than the horde, they got Theramore and horde as a counterpart got only small village of Stonard.
    Last edited by nerv234; 2019-10-15 at 07:33 PM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenais View Post
    The Alliance leaders, after BoD, state that the war is soon to be over, if memory serves. The same sentiment is shared on the Horde side, judging from the content of this thread (I didn't play on the Horde side, so taking this with a pinch of salt is recommended). That implies that the Alliance is not only winning on sea, but also on the ground. Nobody sane would send all their navy after a single asset (in this case, Nathanos), so we can't even assume that the Alliance lost all or nearly all of its naval force when Azshara moved the waters above Nazjatar - I mean, even the cinematic shows just a few ships.
    Only one assuming is you. The canonical account states: the alliance fleet was sent after Nathanos. Not part of the alliance fleet, not a few ships of the alliance fleet, the alliance fleet.
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  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra View Post
    Before Azshara, the Alliance was winning on every front. All the fronts in the war are on the land. So even if Azshara destroyed a huge portion of the Alliance fleet, why should it have impacted the Alliance's war effort in said land warfronts like Arathi and Darkshore? I mean, the Alliance was winning on every front (as reports from every Horde outpost said), and they didn't need their fleet to win ON LAND. So them losing their fleet shouldn't have magically increased the size of the Horde army while at the same time drastically handicapping the Alliance. Plotholes, plotholes, and even more plotholes. That's what BfA is.
    fleets resupply the far off lands.
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  11. #131
    Herald of the Titans Tenebra the War Criminal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    fleets resupply the far off lands.
    Lands which were already heavily leaning towards the Alliance as per the 8.1.5 Nathanos statement.

    Besides, it's not like the Alliance has several means of teleporting supplies and armies (cough cough Jaina, Vindicaar/Aurobos, Void elves cough cough).
    "I have ignored them for too long. They speak the truth, Arator. And you will hear them. I will make you hear them!"

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  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Niter View Post
    Still, the Horde was able to push back the Night Elves in their ancestral home, which happened because Blizzard willed it.
    The Night elves invaded Ashenvale around the time WoW started. Teldrassil was only 20 years old at the time of burning.

    And the "ancestors" of the elves are the trolls, so any ancestral home they may have is troll-lands and therefore belong to the Horde.
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  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    The Alliance were winning because they killed a cursed Troll king by the skin of their teeth after using a diversion to draw the Horde forces up to an empty swamp? And then got routed while fleeing?
    They were winning because they completely obliterated the Zandalari fleet that was the sole purpose of the Horde trying to recruit the Zandalari in the first place. Several of Nathanos' quotes on board the ship are "We NEED the Zandalari fleet!" and "The Alliance will overrun us in weeks without that fleet." To be honest the Alliance could have blown up the fleet and just walked away and been better off.

    From here on out keep in mind the differences between the Horde and Alliance versions of the raid. In the Horde version it's claimed that Greymane ordered Rastakhan to surrender, break ties with the Horde, and hand over Talanji as a hostage. If they'd succeeded in THAT then nothing short of deus ex machina could've saved the Horde. When that failed the hope was killing Rastakhan would lead the Zandalari to thinking the Horde was more trouble than they were worth and break off from them. What ended up happening was the opposite.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    He didn't say Garithos - if he did, it would at least make some sense. It was Arthas and Daelin.Zandalari fleet was blown up before the attack on their capital. Did you conveniently "forget" about the cinematic where Mekkatorque nearly dies while pressing the comically oversized detonator?

    Plus, after that attack concludes, the Horde leadership directly states that the Alliance is close to victory. So unless they are lying to their own allies for no reason, the Alliance was in dominant position, but somehow lost all that advantage off-screen.
    Talanji destroyed the entire alliance fleet, before they went to get the Kultiran one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHQfH56TAWU

    You're citing an alliance only cutscene there, the Horde is barely informed that it happened in game. But keep in mind as well that it is not the entire Zandalari fleet, as multiple ships chase Jaina afterward. The remaining Zandalari and Kultiran ships (used in the Jaina encounter) are all destroyed when going to Nazjatar.



    So in summary:
    1. Horde fleet - small, gone or unimportant in late Legion/early BFA

    2. Alliance fleet - destroyed by Talanji in opening of BFA
    2.2 Horde gains Zandalari fleet
    2.5 Horde dominates seas -- Alliance nearly defeated worldwide
    2.7 Jaina finds Kultiran fleet

    3. Zandalari fleet - mostly destroyed in BoD
    3.5 Alliance dominates seas -- Alliance begins winning the war for a short time

    4. Kultiran fleet - destroyed in Nazjatar, along with few remaining Zandalari ships


    So no one has any ships left now and both factions had equal times "winning" the war due to controlling the seas. However, Alliance suffered two major battle defeats at Teldrassil and Lordaeron, the Horde had no major lost battles. Ergo Horde has superior numbers and is winning the war, prior to traitors plot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    They were winning because they completely obliterated the Zandalari fleet that was the sole purpose of the Horde trying to recruit the Zandalari in the first place. Several of Nathanos' quotes on board the ship are "We NEED the Zandalari fleet!" and "The Alliance will overrun us in weeks without that fleet." To be honest the Alliance could have blown up the fleet and just walked away and been better off.

    From here on out keep in mind the differences between the Horde and Alliance versions of the raid. In the Horde version it's claimed that Greymane ordered Rastakhan to surrender, break ties with the Horde, and hand over Talanji as a hostage. If they'd succeeded in THAT then nothing short of deus ex machina could've saved the Horde. When that failed the hope was killing Rastakhan would lead the Zandalari to thinking the Horde was more trouble than they were worth and break off from them. What ended up happening was the opposite.
    Then:

    1. Why not stop after destroying the fleet instead of killing a king who didn't matter, at great cost to the alliance?
    2. How did the Horde pursue the alliance fleet and defeat Jaina?


    The fraction of the Zandalari fleet that was guarding the port was destroyed, which was most of the fleet but not all of it. The rest of both the ZD and KT fleets were destroyed at Nazjatar.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  15. #135
    How big is the population of the kingdom of Stormwind?
    Theres decades of constant war and many losses of manpower and there seems to be only one big city in the whole kingdom.....

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra View Post
    Plotholes, plotholes, and even more plotholes. That's what Warcraft is.
    Fixed that for you. It's written like a comic book where the big moments and developments take precedence over consistency, and gameplay considerations reign above all. You can have a race that's had 90% of their people killed, then whittled down over years of constant war, then a large number of them genocided in Dalaran... THEN a number of those people break off and become a new race and that race is now numerous and present everywhere. Why? Because it's more cool to see them bopping around doing stuff than visiting a group of 7 of them huddled in a corner afraid to go extinct.

    So WoW logic: Having a war is cool. Having varied locales is cool. Having the balance ebb and flow back and forth is cool. Have some fights and events that happen because reasons. Maybe we'll make some video cutscenes or write a book where the characters pontificate about their loved ones or right and wrong... but save that for outside gameplay because it's a drag.

    That's been Warcraft since their first attempt to be story driven (imo WC3). That game is packed full of inconsistency and plotholes and no one cared then.

  17. #137
    Same as some mentioned before. It's kinda 'drama building move'. Ofcourse Alliance lost some soldiers during sige of Lordaeron, in battle for Stromgarde etc. but same does Horde.

    And try to look on bigger picture. Do you remember Siege of Orgrimmar? THE Orgrimmar? As Gazlow said: "Orgrimmar! The impenetrable fortress!" To bring down walls of Orgrimmar and go through army of Garrosh we needed both Alliance and Vol'jin Revolutionary(mostly Horde). So I think that what Anduin means by "(...)enough for one final strike."

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    They al caught yellow fever in Zandalar.
    I would actually be ok with that IF they said that in the game. This fucking verse has a ton of horrific bugs and diseases, it's not too far out there to be a reasonable reason for them to lose so many troops.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
    People just want to be bullies without facing any sort of consequences or social fallout for being a bully. If you declare X as a racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. person you can say or do whatever you want to them, ignoring the fact that they are a human.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathknightish View Post
    Am I missing something? What happened?
    Did the battle against Azshara dwindle all their numbers or what?
    The troops went to the same land where the reason Garrosh went barking-mad at the Alliance went to - somewhere over the narrative convenience rainbow that good writers never dare venture to...

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aestholus View Post
    How big is the population of the kingdom of Stormwind?
    Theres decades of constant war and many losses of manpower and there seems to be only one big city in the whole kingdom.....
    It's certainly bigger than the Orc population - they were a small group of prisoners escaped on stolen ships, yet somehow have enough manpower to wage multiple wars without ever slowing down and being the main part of the Horde.

    Population numbers never made any sense. All races should be nearly extinct by continuously fighting against themselves, Burning Legion, Scourge, Deathwing, Old Gods and dozen other threats in the last decade alone.

    However, in this specific case, the story itself notes that one side has an advantage in the war, which then completely dissapears off-screen. We know what's the non-lore reason - making sure that both sides are on equal footing in future expansions - but there's no real in story explanation of that.

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