King Anduin and the irrational haters

[Darknessvamp]

Out of this scenario, Anduin is a warrior. He lacks the experience and maybe the strength of many others, but remember his age. Hi will fight if needed, he believes in honor and he will genuinely help anyone who needs help (Horde or Alliance).

Ha what? Since when has Anduin been a honourable warrior? If anything he's done more sneaky shit than honorable actions and the only reason no one calls him out on it is because the Writers always work to twist the story that Anduin was in the right. Stuff like mind controlling people who were helping him because he hadn't enjoyed his vacation in Pandaria long enough, sneaking past a heavily armed outpost to destroy an ancient artifact and somehow surviving being crushed with a bonk on the head, okaying Assassination orders and consenting to spy attacks on civilians in preparation for war are all things he's done yet it's written off as naive or "with good intentions".

Anduin used to be an interesting character but ever since he was just put in charge of the Alliance just because (even though he could only be declared the King of Stormwind since the Alliance wasn't a monarchical based organisation) and everyone just agrees with him all the time (barring Tyrande who now opposes him thankfully) and he can get away with whatever with little consequence to himself, he's just gotten really annoying and boring.

[Mardux]

Ya know, after reading this it made me realize. Horde and alliance have kind of swapped ... Alliance was a coalition while the Horde had a Warchief. Now Horde is ruled by a council and Alliance has a High King. o.0

Be real. Horde might be “ruled by a council”, but that council is ruled by the alliance.

[Fetus Rex]

You either don´t play the game right now or you don´t read and skip all cinematics. The Horde did not do anything to Teldrasil, it was Sylvanas side, which, as we all know by now, was not the true Horde. The true Horde confronted her and she left behind her army.

A good king avoids blood, but will cause it if necessary. That is exactly what Anduin seems to be alike.

What?

A good king is like a vampire. Every state needs both external and internal enemies. Blood must flow. Anduin is an example of a naive ruler from fairy tale where things are well and people are naturally good.

[Mardux]

Why do people irrationally hate him?

Let´s think in perspective, for once. Forget all you know and check this out:

In the current times, the Horde is the most dominant force in Azeroth, by quite a long margin. Not only do we have the most land and capitals, but the Alliance has recently lost a large amount of its population and a major landmark. On top of that, it has happened with no grievances to the Horde as this was the act of a "common enemy".
The Alliance currently suffer a bit of an identity issue with Tyrande going a bit "her way". I do not judge this, I only mention it to state the facts.

The Horde has now (or so it seems) gained the full strength of (most of) Sylvanas army.

Right now we have reached peace, but for sure the Horde is easily a 3 to 1 ratio against the Alliance.

Now, about King Anduin. He is a rather pacific, strategic king, and that is smart in times like this when the Alliance has genuinely nothing to do in a full scale war against the Horde.
He helped Saurfang, who in turn wanted the true Horde back. Sylvanas never cared all that much about the Horde, ever since classic btw, that is the very original Lore and not just BfA.
This is, yet again, a smart move by the Alliance King. Sylvanas would have destroyed him so what else could make sense but to ally with whoever you can to take her down?

Out of this scenario, Anduin is a warrior. He lacks the experience and maybe the strength of many others, but remember his age. Hi will fight if needed, he believes in honor and he will genuinely help anyone who needs help (Horde or Alliance).


I was Alliance for over 13 years, now I am Horde, so I am more neutral than ever as I obviously still have feelings for the Alliance, but I am now Horde.

So please, explain me all the hate? He is a pretty good King, I won´t say that he is the best or anything, we can leave it plain neutral, he is plain good.



And btw, for those coming with "this is Warcraft not lovecraft derp", think a bit, we´ve got Warcraft in nearly every single expansion, we´ve got Horde vs Alliance no matter what other leaders where trying to accomplish, so your argument is pretty much invalid. Even in WotLK when we last joined forces (that is over 10 years ago btw..), we still had Horde vs Alliance conflicts.

So is this entire thing based on hypotheticals? It must be considering that starting with your third sentence you got more wrong than right.

And btw, the whole “forget what you know” thing doesn’t work unless it’s a hypothetical.

Forget what you know. 2 + 2 = 5. Why?

[Kumorii]

The hate is about how boring he is. Doesn't matter what characteristics he has when all that's presented is how sad he with saurfang and talk about honor. It's fine being a honorable character and striving for peace and unification. That in of itself is not bad, but it gets boring because there is only one thing he talks about.

After saurfang he now does the same speech towards Tyrande. He becomes boring not because of what he stands for but we know exactly what he is gonna do and say.

It's no different than some preacher who when you open up to them only say thw same things "time will heal all wounds" "it'll get better over time".

Guess what's gonna happen after Tyrande when there is another grudge. He will say "We should leave the past behind, we should be better" etc etc. There is no real solution, only fancy phrases that gets dull.

[Nebron]

Why do people irrationally hate him?

Let´s think in perspective, for once. Forget all you know and check this out:

In the current times, the Horde is the most dominant force in Azeroth, by quite a long margin. Not only do we have the most land and capitals, but the Alliance has recently lost a large amount of its population and a major landmark. On top of that, it has happened with no grievances to the Horde as this was the act of a "common enemy".
The Alliance currently suffer a bit of an identity issue with Tyrande going a bit "her way". I do not judge this, I only mention it to state the facts.

The Horde has now (or so it seems) gained the full strength of (most of) Sylvanas army.

Right now we have reached peace, but for sure the Horde is easily a 3 to 1 ratio against the Alliance.

Now, about King Anduin. He is a rather pacific, strategic king, and that is smart in times like this when the Alliance has genuinely nothing to do in a full scale war against the Horde.
He helped Saurfang, who in turn wanted the true Horde back. Sylvanas never cared all that much about the Horde, ever since classic btw, that is the very original Lore and not just BfA.
This is, yet again, a smart move by the Alliance King. Sylvanas would have destroyed him so what else could make sense but to ally with whoever you can to take her down?

Out of this scenario, Anduin is a warrior. He lacks the experience and maybe the strength of many others, but remember his age. Hi will fight if needed, he believes in honor and he will genuinely help anyone who needs help (Horde or Alliance).


I was Alliance for over 13 years, now I am Horde, so I am more neutral than ever as I obviously still have feelings for the Alliance, but I am now Horde.

So please, explain me all the hate? He is a pretty good King, I won´t say that he is the best or anything, we can leave it plain neutral, he is plain good.



And btw, for those coming with "this is Warcraft not lovecraft derp", think a bit, we´ve got Warcraft in nearly every single expansion, we´ve got Horde vs Alliance no matter what other leaders where trying to accomplish, so your argument is pretty much invalid. Even in WotLK when we last joined forces (that is over 10 years ago btw..), we still had Horde vs Alliance conflicts.

It's not a problem of Anduin himself. I can't really think of any major character in this game that is not destroyed by story writers

My biggest issue is that all these character developments are based on shallow, unrealistic events. Let's look at the very war-theme of this expansion. It had to be the biggest beef between Horde and Alliance. And it seems like it was the worst war-themed story written for the WoW in it's entire lifespan. Not only the war itself was unfounded, but it's course was absolutely out of place. Of course, we had some batlle events, and so what?

What was the reason behind the war? It's hard to tell, even now, as Sylvanas motives are still unclear, even though we are on the finish line. Azerite - you see? Some random material that had never been established in WoW's story previously is one of the main reasons to start the war. And here the downfall starts.

Same happens to Anduin. This character is nobody really. We all know that he struggles very deeply with his thoughts - with the honor on one side, and his pacifist nature on the other. But Blizzard is failing to capture it. Yes, it's MMO so it's hard to tell a cohesive, vivid story without some major gaps. Nevertheless, the entire motive of his doubts is frustrating. All he thinks about is "Azeroth". Something, that became cliche now. It's such a naive and boring concept to fight "for the world". Like, lol... who else does it in a real world. War is all about self/nation-intrests. That's why the whole BfA story is boring and shallow, and the same shit with Anduin/ Sylvanas and especially modern Saurfang, who in fact "died for Azeroth", lol.

[Pheraz]

Yes, it is when you are in MMO-Champion, a forum website mainly dedicated to imaginary characters.

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Then again, Sylvanas killed numerous Hordes with no remorse, so not quite the same example. Anduin did not rule in the past, so far his time ruling is about trying to use common sense and dialogue over randomly rising the axe.

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But that is what the light and paladins are all about, rightfully peace and use of warfare to protect it.. that is EXACTLY what he is, a paladin of the light, which is the purest Alliance representation (from a human perspective ofc).

Sorry but I strongly disagree.

1) I think it's embarrassing that the human theme is still the alliance main theme, when it's the most boring and uncreative one
2) even humans have more themes than Paladins
3) you can be a Paladin who can think beyond three months. Exactly what Tyrande said: it may look great to have peace now but you should make decisions for a decade as a leader and not only for the next five minutes that make you feel good. Justice is very important for a society to stay whole. You can't just let criminals escape. That's sadly nonsense, sorry because otherwise everyone might feel motivated to become a criminal if you don't get punished

[Mirishka]

Because he is a pussy.

He did not aid the citizens of Teldrassil, nor honored their death.
He defiled the night elven blade Shalamayne by giving it to the genocidal maniac Saurfang, the Butcher of Ashenvale, who was the strategic brain behind the Burning of Teldrassil
He rewarded the Butcher of Ashenvale with an honorable death, and we all know, that is all orcs are living for

Despite what Blizzard is saying - Alliance still has a SPACESHIP, seasoned war heroes like FUCKING Tyralion and Alleria, Malfurion (who caused the great Sundering), Velen, the Prophet (who mysteriously is MIA the entire xpac). One of the most powerful mages on Azeroth (Jaina)

When it comes to lore characters, the Horde has no one to match up with this force. Yet, the "Highking" is somehow "alone".

People hate Anduin because he is the amalgamation of the devs hate for the Alliance. He is the embodiement of the devs desire to make Alliance dumb losers.

So much nonsense in so few words. Impressive.

[Felixon]

Why do people irrationally hate him?

Let´s think in perspective, for once. Forget all you know and check this out:

In the current times, the Horde is the most dominant force in Azeroth, by quite a long margin. Not only do we have the most land and capitals, but the Alliance has recently lost a large amount of its population and a major landmark. On top of that, it has happened with no grievances to the Horde as this was the act of a "common enemy".
The Alliance currently suffer a bit of an identity issue with Tyrande going a bit "her way". I do not judge this, I only mention it to state the facts.

The Horde has now (or so it seems) gained the full strength of (most of) Sylvanas army.

Right now we have reached peace, but for sure the Horde is easily a 3 to 1 ratio against the Alliance.

Now, about King Anduin. He is a rather pacific, strategic king, and that is smart in times like this when the Alliance has genuinely nothing to do in a full scale war against the Horde.
He helped Saurfang, who in turn wanted the true Horde back. Sylvanas never cared all that much about the Horde, ever since classic btw, that is the very original Lore and not just BfA.
This is, yet again, a smart move by the Alliance King. Sylvanas would have destroyed him so what else could make sense but to ally with whoever you can to take her down?

Out of this scenario, Anduin is a warrior. He lacks the experience and maybe the strength of many others, but remember his age. Hi will fight if needed, he believes in honor and he will genuinely help anyone who needs help (Horde or Alliance).


I was Alliance for over 13 years, now I am Horde, so I am more neutral than ever as I obviously still have feelings for the Alliance, but I am now Horde.

So please, explain me all the hate? He is a pretty good King, I won´t say that he is the best or anything, we can leave it plain neutral, he is plain good.



And btw, for those coming with "this is Warcraft not lovecraft derp", think a bit, we´ve got Warcraft in nearly every single expansion, we´ve got Horde vs Alliance no matter what other leaders where trying to accomplish, so your argument is pretty much invalid. Even in WotLK when we last joined forces (that is over 10 years ago btw..), we still had Horde vs Alliance conflicts.

If he would truly be a wise king,he would pretend that he cares about the future of the Horde. He would let his and Saurfangs army to attack Orgrimmar,with the Saurfangs rebels being on the frontlines. He would allow the Horde to fight each other. And when the moment would be right, he would give a sign to Tyrande and the kaldorei would decimate the Horde undiscriminately. In chaos and confusion, they wouldn't even know what hit them.

Then the combined army of the Alliance would deal with the remains of Horde's army. It would be truly interesting turn in his character's development and the kaldorei would have their vengeance. I'm sure @Eggroll and @Pheraz would agree with me,that he, by doing this, would get respect not only from kaldorei,but even from his enemies. But the current writing team is only capable to write pathetic, predictable and boring stories. Besides, how could the game designers allow it to happen - to allow the Horde to be on a losing side for once? No,they take your money and write the story the way it fits their own main characters, as if this game would belong only to them.

[sam86]

Do i really need to list it ?
Nelf consist of ppl who are over 10k years old (they don't even consider them above teenage until they pass 250 years, 250 f8cking years, no human even live like that) who led the world many times, Draenei are literally immortals, dwarfs average life is 250 and can reach 1k easily
then there is a race that lives a pitiful 70 years average, and even die usually earlier
Guess who is given leadership?
And above all else, Anduin is given leadership and he is still teenage or at best young adult, entire alliance races and reskinned 'allied' races couldn't find anyone to lead them except a 17 year old baby, this is disgusting and i'm glad i don't main alliance because this is really disgusting, even if Anduin is born in royalty, his entire life experience is still shorter than any other leader in both alliance and horde side

[Felixon]

So much nonsense in so few words. Impressive.

Nonsense? So,you want to tell me, that WoW designers, all of whom play Horde from the very start of this game and hate the Alliance, are capable to be neutral and allow the story to unfold in way,where Alliance would stand victorious for once?

[Wangming]

I hate him because

1. He has no personality beside being nice

2. He explains to Saurfang what the Horde is, despite Saurfang fighting for the Horde when Anduin's father was a wankstain, and not stopping ever since.

3. Leaders ten thousand years his senior are pretending he is better than them.

The way he is written is an insult to fans. Thank god Tyrande and Genn found their balls.

[Mirishka]

Nonsense? So,you want to tell me, that WoW designers, all of whom play Horde from the very start of this game and hate the Alliance, are capable to be neutral and allow the story to unfold in way,where Alliance would stand victorious for once?

Yeah I'm not even wasting my time trying to have a discussion with someone with a point of view as hopelessly stupid as 'BLIZZ R HORDE LOVERS N HATE THE ALLIANCE'.

[FAILoZOFF]

Why do people hate or love imaginary characters in a video game is the more relevant question to ask.

...or factions
yes.

[Daevelian]

Hate is a strong word. Boring? sure, but hate? nah.

That would require a level of emotional investment in to a work of fiction that borders on crazy.

[this is caranthir]

Why do people hate or love imaginary characters in a video game is the more relevant question to ask.

Could be said the same about characters in books , movies and any other media.
What's your point?

[Raisei]

Lol! The mastermind behind the attack on Ashenvale and Teldrassil was Saurfang, the Butcher of Ashenvale. What narrative are you trying to push here? And there were plenty of Horde troops in the WoT. It's not as if Sylvanas was there all by herself. Remember, Saurfang put that axe into Malfurions back? How did he do that if he wasn't there?

A good King protects his citizens from harm. He never did that for the citizens of Ashenvale/Darkshore/Teldrassil or Brennandan.

Saurfang did indeed plan the military campaign as far as logistics are concerned, the idea of it however was all Sylvanas'. He even disliked it at first. He later faught in Darkshore which is what an honorable orc does when his warchief tells him to fight. The axe into Malfurions back was in fact an unconcious reaction to seeing his warchief in mortal danger. He regreted it immediately.

Pray tell, how does one protect an entire continent plus several big islands of people from a madwoman with bio-weapons? There is nothing like radar or other ways of detection that could simply be put everywhere and prevent attacks instantly.

Ashenvale and Darkshore were the result of a very successful trick Sylvanas employed. She made it look to all the Alliance spies that her goal was to take Silithus for the Azerite. Only Saurfang, Nathanos and herself knew the true goal. This ploy was so succesful because it made sense that she would go for the Azerite and she fooled everyone in the Alliance leadership, including veterans like Tyrande and Genn. As a result the Alliance fleet was too far away to help, but Anduin send us to do whatever we could.

Teldrassil was an unthinkable thing. Not even Nathanos could believe she would order this attack, Sylvanas herself basically decided it on the fly. How would you ever defend against that? It`s like a real life leader that has won a war and because he feels like it he drops a nuclear bomb. There is no protection against crazy people because they are by definition unpredictable. Anduin did what he could by evacuating as many as possible to Stormwind.

Brennadan again is one of those cases. You can't see an attack like that comming without modern surveilance and mobilizing a response is not a quick thing either.

It is not Anduin's fault that Sylvanas has no regard and instead hate for life itself and thus will attack anyone and anything she feels like without remorse or thinking. So her a civilian population is nothing different then an army
-

[George Costanza]

we sure got to see alot of "manduin" this expansion /s.


he has been more of a pussy than baine has -... no wait they are about equal. His characterization this expansion is quite shit going from literally saying "sylvanas must die" before Teldrassil to even saying "surrender sylvanas and i will spare your life" post teldrassil.

Jaina just seems filled with apathy.

[RobertMugabe]

<snip>

I dunno what you're talking about really. I just read the first part about how the Horde is 3 times stronger than the Alliance which is just bullshit (well maybe player-wise you are right, but not lore-wise). If anything, the Alliance is far more stable, larger, stronger than the Horde. At worst they're equally strong.

[Sezh]

Why do people like or dislike characters in a book, a tv show or a movie? They're fictional, but that's the point of a story telling media. To get people to connect with characters, to care about them. Game of Thrones for example, wouldn't have been half as successful if no-one gave a shit about the characters.

Could be said the same about characters in books , movies and any other media.
What's your point?

There is a distinction though, for instance: I dislike Rey in SW because she's a poorly written character. If another person likes Rey as a character I could argue with them over how I think she's a bad character.

That's not what's going on here, people are hating or loving characters based on their imaginary personality and imaginary actions as if they are real people.