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  1. #101
    The pet stuck in the air is mostly some bug but for me having to Misery every single add then keep Voidform as much as possible as an extra mechanic along with all those boss mechanics is more stressful than a hunter bug.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    The pet stuck in the air is mostly some bug but for me having to Misery every single add then keep Voidform as much as possible as an extra mechanic along with all those boss mechanics is more stressful than a hunter bug.
    I didn't say "in the air", I said "on random air".

    As in, sometimes pets will just stop moving for no real reason in particular.

    Case in point, Battle for Dazaralor, I lost track of how many times pets would just stop walking down the stairs on the way to Stormwall. As a lock even, just the last week I summoned my Demonic Tyrant (A ranged cooldown pet), for it to stare at the wall instead of moving slightly to the side to get in line of sight of a mob.

    Current example, Blackwater Behemoth, pets love to just stand on the last platform you were on most of the time.

    And on top of that, you missed the frenzied stacks example.

    Trying to ensure your pet has 3 stacks of Frenzy for as long as you can through Barbed shot isn't that different than tracking a dot and managing it, except procs and CDs also affect this and you have to stay on your toes to ensure you don't flub and drop the stack, for BM at least. And I'm using BM as the example because that's usually the "go to" example for "easy hunter spec".

    Voidform you're basically in again as soon as it drops. No procs affect your Void bolt CD, and Void bolt extends your dots anyway so it just becomes a game of Void bolting as much as you can while still generating insanity through your other casts between Void Bolts.

  3. #103
    Everytime I need to move or do a mechanic I screw up my rotation. The Shadowpriest must be a turret in order to be at best while the Hunter can do that with moving also. My class has to give 200% to achieve the same damage other classes can do with half effort.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    Everytime I need to move or do a mechanic I screw up my rotation. The Shadowpriest must be a turret in order to be at best while the Hunter can do that with moving also. My class has to give 200% to achieve the same damage other classes can do with half effort.
    Use Void Bolt in your gaps that you have to move. Plan ahead, know when you have to move and when Void bolt will be coming off CD.

  5. #105
    I know of that. Still the fact that I can move barely two steps between void bolts while the hunter can move,jump and shoot is bugging me.

  6. #106
    @Jester Joe if you think HUNTERS are hard, I think you need to take a good long look at some other classes (and maybe why hunter is so hard for you) because if you’re not survival - and no one is - hunters are the easiest class in the game by far. Less procs to manage, less abilities, and pet autoattacks are a huge chunk of your DPS. A BM hunter can afk and still do considerable (if comparatively unacceptable) damage.

    Spriests on the other hand are insanely demanding; they require a huge amount of mechanical skill and deep encounter knowledge to even come close to other classes, and the few hundred people world wide that understand how to push the class to the limits shown in the top 95% mythic parses where shadow LOOKS overpowered should not be the metric by which blizzard balances the class. Spriests aren’t even popular as-is. My guild is 6/8M and we’ve been unable to recruit one at all for months, not even a bad one. There’s just so few because spriests, as I said, require a huge amount of effort to compete, let alone the perfection required to excel.

    And it’s not like multidotting is the issue because several fights in 8.3 are again pure single target or have the stacked everything-dies-in-two-seconds-because-melee-cleave-is-far-stronger-and-quicker-than-ranged cleave, where shadow is useless because the mobs don’t even last long enough to dot up.

    Edit: note that I’m not even a shadowpriest main either, so I’m not crying for the desire to not be nerfed.
    Last edited by Nefarious Tea; 2019-12-10 at 11:14 PM.
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  7. #107
    Shadow priests, doing twice the work for half the results since 2004.
    Hunters, doing half the work for twice the results since 2004.

    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    DPS Loss - my guild on Proudmoore
    The Old Guard - my guild on Earthen Ring
    Revenant - my guild on Echo Isles

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    @Jester Joe if you think HUNTERS are hard, I think you need to take a good long look at some other classes (and maybe why hunter is so hard for you) because if you’re not survival - and no one is - hunters are the easiest class in the game by far. Less procs to manage, less abilities, and pet autoattacks are a huge chunk of your DPS. A BM hunter can afk and still do considerable (if comparatively unacceptable) damage.

    Spriests on the other hand are insanely demanding; they require a huge amount of mechanical skill and deep encounter knowledge to even come close to other classes, and the few hundred people world wide that understand how to push the class to the limits shown in the top 95% mythic parses where shadow LOOKS overpowered should not be the metric by which blizzard balances the class. Spriests aren’t even popular as-is. My guild is 6/8M and we’ve been unable to recruit one at all for months, not even a bad one. There’s just so few because spriests, as I said, require a huge amount of effort to compete, let alone the perfection required to excel.

    And it’s not like multidotting is the issue because several fights in 8.3 are again pure single target or have the stacked everything-dies-in-two-seconds-because-melee-cleave-is-far-stronger-and-quicker-than-ranged cleave, where shadow is useless because the mobs don’t even last long enough to dot up.

    Edit: note that I’m not even a shadowpriest main either, so I’m not crying for the desire to not be nerfed.
    If you still think BM is the easiest class in the game, while DH exists, I don't know what to tell you.

    Nowhere did I say hunters are hard though. But if you're going to try to pull the "managing dots are hard!" card, I'm going to laugh in affliction.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    If you still think BM is the easiest class in the game, while DH exists, I don't know what to tell you.

    Nowhere did I say hunters are hard though. But if you're going to try to pull the "managing dots are hard!" card, I'm going to laugh in affliction.
    Havoc is also piss easy but you mentioned hunters.

    I'm a warlock main. Multidotting isn't hard and that's not what I said at all. I said Spriests have to work fucking hard just to keep up and it takes a special kind of 0.01% talent to excel at them, and yet that tiny smidge of incredibly dedicated/skilled/lucky Spriests are the ones blizzard is looking at when they're nerfing them next patch.

    Harming the single target of ANY class just means that the entire community will shun that class in raids, especially when a class without burst aoe is absolute anathema in M+ already.
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    Havoc is also piss easy but you mentioned hunters.

    I'm a warlock main. Multidotting isn't hard and that's not what I said at all. I said Spriests have to work fucking hard just to keep up and it takes a special kind of 0.01% talent to excel at them, and yet that tiny smidge of incredibly dedicated/skilled/lucky Spriests are the ones blizzard is looking at when they're nerfing them next patch.

    Harming the single target of ANY class just means that the entire community will shun that class in raids, especially when a class without burst aoe is absolute anathema in M+ already.
    Again though, you started this off by putting words in my mouth-
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You're picking a bad class to compare to.

    Shadow priest at least has the choice to pick easier ways to keep their dots rolling, through Misery (For multiple targets) or other choices. And single target wise it's a complete joke, apply once and keep void form up as much as you can and your dots will keep themselves refreshed enough basically.

    Keeping your pet at 3 stacks of Frenzy as a hunter is more frantic than that. Never mind the moment you have to change targets or move from one place to another and your pet decides to get stuck on thin air.

    Nowhere did I say "Hunter is hard".

    YOU are the one that brought "difficulty of class" in as a bar, and I would honestly venture as far to say you haven't tried BM lately. It's not a matter of being "difficult". You can slam out the buttons as they light up and do well, yes.
    But if you want to excel, you have to micromanage your pet and frenzy stacks, which can be just as difficult as managing dots and refreshing them at the right times.

    I think you're drastically overestimating though how much it takes to excel on spriest, especially right now in TEP. Yes, they're not as ridiculous as its made to sound, but fights like Zaqul basically hand them top damage on a silver platter as long as you know how to play the class. It's not even hard work to do so.

    You know why pet attacks are a major source of damage for hunters? Because...frenzy stack management. And no, an AFK hunter is not going to pull as much as you think they are, you just don't realize how much of the hunter's abilities are causing the pet damage to escalate through things like Beast Cleave and Frenzy.

    A hunter could work as hard as they want, they will never catch a multidotter in DPS in TEP at all.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Again though, you started this off by putting words in my mouth-



    Nowhere did I say "Hunter is hard".

    YOU are the one that brought "difficulty of class" in as a bar, and I would honestly venture as far to say you haven't tried BM lately. It's not a matter of being "difficult". You can slam out the buttons as they light up and do well, yes.
    But if you want to excel, you have to micromanage your pet and frenzy stacks, which can be just as difficult as managing dots and refreshing them at the right times.

    I think you're drastically overestimating though how much it takes to excel on spriest, especially right now in TEP. Yes, they're not as ridiculous as its made to sound, but fights like Zaqul basically hand them top damage on a silver platter as long as you know how to play the class. It's not even hard work to do so.

    You know why pet attacks are a major source of damage for hunters? Because...frenzy stack management. And no, an AFK hunter is not going to pull as much as you think they are, you just don't realize how much of the hunter's abilities are causing the pet damage to escalate through things like Beast Cleave and Frenzy.

    A hunter could work as hard as they want, they will never catch a multidotter in DPS in TEP at all.
    The thing about BM is that Frenzy stacks are the ONLY mechanic that you have to "think" about. Otherwise it's a completely free run. Just don't spam cobra shot and you're good. And Frenzy stacks are dealt with by having a weakaura that lights up every time you need to press barbed shot.

    BM is by far the easiest class in the game when you put everything together. The fact that it's a ranged with full mobility makes it much easier than DH.

    (DH is also piss easy - but not AS easy as BM).

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    The thing about BM is that Frenzy stacks are the ONLY mechanic that you have to "think" about. Otherwise it's a completely free run. Just don't spam cobra shot and you're good. And Frenzy stacks are dealt with by having a weakaura that lights up every time you need to press barbed shot.

    BM is by far the easiest class in the game when you put everything together. The fact that it's a ranged with full mobility makes it much easier than DH.

    (DH is also piss easy - but not AS easy as BM).
    A DH literally only has to track if they have enough resource to use moves in CD. That's literally no different than BM, while BM also has to manage the frenzy stacks. And in a DHs case, it's "spam a move for the resource" so you have more control over it.

    Not sure why you think mobility would make BM easier, DH is extremely mobile and can keep their rotation going while moving too.

    This is getting a bit farther than I expected though or intended. If anyone honestly thinks though hunters are beating spriests in TEP I don't know what to say. The issue with finding spriest isn't just due to whether or not the class is hard, I would say, and more to do with that if someone's picking a class to DPS and they're looking for dot based classes, why would they pick the one with only one dps spec that will probably be forced to heal for the raid at some point, and not warlock which has more utility.

  13. #113
    I know Preach isn't an authority to many, but it's funny how you guys argue about priest vs hunter and he just said hunter is gonna be the worst ranged class for Nyalotha and it brings nothing while doing sub par dps, while multi dotters are gonna be king again due to all the prolonged add fights, despite all the nerfs to multi dotters.

    And I dunno how people say "multi dotting" is hard, tab target exists, focus target exists, boss / important add frames exist, addons exist. If you want to tunnel 1 target and think multi dotting is awful, roll a mage instead? Fire is strong atm and zero nerfs to it, and it scales with gear well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryonas View Post
    Yeesh. I make a point of leveling one of each class to max level every expansion or two, just because. This time around, I already felt like my Shadow Priest was by far the slowest/weakest of my alts to level. It already takes forever for her to kill anything compared to all the other classes, and she dies easier. I'm surprised they're being nerfed.
    Are you pulling mobs 1 by 1? Do you have crappy gear? Killing mobs 1 by 1 is bad on multi target specs, but you can do better if you kill few at a time. Priest can self heal and shield, vampiric touch has inbuilt leech, dispersion got buffed and you can spec into it being an emergency heal, personally I always found it easier to level a priest than a mage, maybe that's just me...

    Yeah ok it will never be a hunter, but they're notoriously noob friendly for levelling since vanilla. Demon Hunter, DK and ret pala are also up there in how auto pilot you can level them.

    Specs were never equal in levelling speed or ease, and literally when we talk about nerfing stuff like azerite traits that won't affect your levelling where you usually wear heirlooms until max level for bonus xp.

  14. #114
    When I was still raiding I had a fellow Spriest that probably should have been playing a BM Hunter, he wouldn't have been parsing purple/orange for Hunter by no means, but it most likely wouldn't have been as punishing as how bad at managing VF duration he was.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by JustaWarlock View Post
    The nerf is completely justified. Shadow priests are currently over the top overpowered for very little effort. Even after this nerf they'll still be amazingly strong and out dps 90% of other classes.
    Care to explain your hyperbole? Very little effort compared to what? Beast Mastery-hunters? LOL.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    I know Preach isn't an authority to many, but it's funny how you guys argue about priest vs hunter and he just said hunter is gonna be the worst ranged class for Nyalotha and it brings nothing while doing sub par dps, while multi dotters are gonna be king again due to all the prolonged add fights, despite all the nerfs to multi dotters.

    And I dunno how people say "multi dotting" is hard, tab target exists, focus target exists, boss / important add frames exist, addons exist. If you want to tunnel 1 target and think multi dotting is awful, roll a mage instead? Fire is strong atm and zero nerfs to it, and it scales with gear well.

    Are you pulling mobs 1 by 1? Do you have crappy gear? Killing mobs 1 by 1 is bad on multi target specs, but you can do better if you kill few at a time. Priest can self heal and shield, vampiric touch has inbuilt leech, dispersion got buffed and you can spec into it being an emergency heal, personally I always found it easier to level a priest than a mage, maybe that's just me...

    Yeah ok it will never be a hunter, but they're notoriously noob friendly for levelling since vanilla. Demon Hunter, DK and ret pala are also up there in how auto pilot you can level them.

    Specs were never equal in levelling speed or ease, and literally when we talk about nerfing stuff like azerite traits that won't affect your levelling where you usually wear heirlooms until max level for bonus xp.

    I just mean that I leveled an alt of every class (except Mage, which is my main) in quick succession, and the Shadow Priest felt by FAR the weakest in similar ilvl gear and the same zones, doing the same quests, fighting the same mobs. The Monk wasn't great, either, but was still significantly easier/faster than Shadow Priest.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryonas View Post
    I just mean that I leveled an alt of every class (except Mage, which is my main) in quick succession, and the Shadow Priest felt by FAR the weakest in similar ilvl gear and the same zones, doing the same quests, fighting the same mobs. The Monk wasn't great, either, but was still significantly easier/faster than Shadow Priest.
    That's hardly comparable to a raid environment.
    Some classes scale better with gear than others.

  18. #118
    If Blizzard ever introduces a paid Class Change option I would change my Priest in a heart beat, that I've main'd since TBC... not enjoying SP at all since Legion with their stupid Insanity mechanic.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Shadow is currently just fine. Is strong, but is not the best DPS, it is near the top... being able to top if well played. Period. So are many other DPS classes.

    The problem is that Blizzard doesn+t want priests to be a top DPS class, that´s what makes the difference.
    whats with this crazy conspiracy mentality?why would blizz not want x class to be top?this is simply silly....the nerf to shadow priest is extremly simple,its not a ''nerf'' its more of a balance act,shadow is one of the best classes when it comes to scaling with stats,and this gets even crazier with multidoting,the next patch has more stats,these changes are to keep its power creep in line with everyone else,ofc they will never balance everything perfectly,but having a class do double the dmg of others is kinda crazy,or have we forgoten early legion for shadow?how did blizz alow them to be not just top,but DESTROYING for a fairly long time?

  20. #120
    Just to be clear I was being sarcastic with my post above, but to comment on some of the discussion....

    Ease of play for a class is important at the average levels of the game. Not everyone wants to work 9 hours a day and then come home and work some more in the raids. It's a game and some people just want to have fun. I think that Hunter has historically always been a good class for this, while Shadowpriests have historically always been a very poor choice for this type of player. However, as I have played a shadowpriest for most all of WoW, I would prefer to have an easy style to play that does decent (not best, just decent) damage without having to think too hard about it. This was why I liked the CoP play style as opposed to AS back in WoD. At the end of the day I just want to push some buttons and focus on the fight mechanics and get some loot, while interacting with my friends. If I end a raid night and I feel mentally and physically exhausted - yes there's a level of satisfaction to that, but over a period of many years it just feels draining and I don't want to do it anymore. These days, if I even had the time and inclination to play the game again, I'd be looking for the dead easiest class to play. From everything I've heard about the current expansion, I would rather stab myself in the hand than spend 3-4 hours every raid night managing insanity stacks and multi-dotting. I'm not trying to convince everyone to feel the same way that I do, I only want to point out that there are players like me, and that I feel there should be a class for them, otherwise Blizzard is just designing a game to completely alienate a segment of their potential player base (which i feel they are sort of doing, but that's another debate....).

    On the topic of balance - I do feel that Blizzard designs and balances the game around mythic players and elite levels of skill. I absolutely think that nerfs and buffs trickle down in supply based off of the 1% and what and how they are playing. This is also why, I think, some lesser played classes that need changes and aren't doing well, get completely ignored for years on end, while other specs receive constant tweaks, sometimes from month to month, through an expansion. I think Blizzard focuses on the community that generates the most noise, market buzz, and popularity. And I do think that they tune classes around the next raid or content release. I also think that this isn't a blanket rule and that there are exceptions as well as just plain mistakes and oversights on their part. I suspect that, being a large company, they have tons of reports that get generated each month showing which classes and content are the most popular, and who is doing it and in what spec. They probably use those reports to prioritize what to work on.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a handful of "elite" players who have a direct line to Bliz to discuss playtesting and class trends in the high end raids, with an eye towards balancing things and stopping some things from running out of control. Being "people", this no doubt introduces a certain level of bias, which is probably why certain aspects of classes get lots of attention while other aspects get ignored for months on end.

    It would be interesting to work at Blizzard and get a sense for how decisions are made and how information flows to them, and how that informs the choices they make. I'm surprised that over the years we don't tend of have accounts from ex-employees floating around the net saying how it was there.
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    DPS Loss - my guild on Proudmoore
    The Old Guard - my guild on Earthen Ring
    Revenant - my guild on Echo Isles

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