Shadow priest nerfs 8.3.0

[Axola]

Alright, so with the following:

Shadow
Auspicious Spirits damage bonus reduced to 25% (was 50%).
Fixed a bug causing Spiteful Apparitions (Azerite Trait) to be increased by 75% if you do not have Auspicious Spirits talented.
Developers’ notes: The multiplicative interaction between Auspicious Spirits, Spiteful Apparitions, and Chorus of Insanity has specifically been a big part of Shadow’s damage scaling somewhat out of control at high target counts.
Chorus of Insanity critical strike bonus reduced by 25%.
Shadow Word: Pain damage reduced by 8%.
Vampiric Touch damage reduced by 8%.
(Source MMO-C main page)

This looks terrible for shadowpriests single target

https://imgur.com/a/DWUy0gM

Are those changes going to place us barely above resto shamans in terms of DPS? (keep in mind, this data is pulled from https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T23_Raid.html and https://www.simulationcraft.org/repo...geonSlice.html respectively, so it might be 'bit outdated)

Even though it's problematic to get a M+ group as a shadow (unless it's your key), and the groups are plagued by Melee, should i seriously consider rerolling to a melee?

[Morgaith]

Even though it's problematic to get a M+ group as a shadow (unless it's your key), and the groups are plagued by Melee, should i seriously consider rerolling to a melee?

Meta slaves don't want melee, they want rogues first, possibly a ww or DH but that's it.

If you're not a metaslave you can bring any class, SP included without issues.

[valky94]

Alright, so with the following:



This looks terrible for shadowpriests single target

https://imgur.com/a/DWUy0gM

Are those changes going to place us barely above resto shamans in terms of DPS? (keep in mind, this data is pulled from https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T23_Raid.html and https://www.simulationcraft.org/repo...geonSlice.html respectively, so it might be 'bit outdated)

Even though it's problematic to get a M+ group as a shadow (unless it's your key), and the groups are plagued by Melee, should i seriously consider rerolling to a melee?

its a well deserved nerf, shadow is overperforming in Palace atm, being atleast 10% better than the 2nd best spec,

never trust sims when it comes to DPS (btw the sims you linked are BfD sims not EP sims), Tier 23 is dazar alor

[Sarkol]

Reminder that Shadow Priests *should* be terrible single target, or at least near the bottom in relation to every other spec. DoT specs should never be able to compete with other classes for top dps on 1 target, and right now they're near the top, and far and away the best spread dot dps.

[Kaesebrezen]

Reminder that Shadow Priests *should* be terrible single target.

No, noone should be terrible at single target. The vast majority of fights still are primarily single-target. All of the dungeon bosses still are single-target.

We have several expansions worth of history of how shadow being terrible at single-target, and minimal ahead in cleave fights, worked out. It never did. And these nerfs put shadow just back into terrible single-target damage for a minimal gain on spread cleave fights, aka shit on everything outside of the 2 fights per tier that are actually true spread cleave or heavily gimmicked like Za'quul.

[Sarkol]

No, noone should be terrible at single target. The vast majority of fights still are primarily single-target. All of the dungeon bosses still are single-target.

We have several expansions worth of history of how shadow being terrible at single-target, and minimal ahead in cleave fights, worked out. It never did. And these nerfs put shadow just back into terrible single-target damage for a minimal gain on spread cleave fights, aka shit on everything outside of the 2 fights per tier that are actually true spread cleave or heavily gimmicked like Za'quul.

Ok let me rephrase. Shadow should be in the bottom 5 for ST providing they still dominate all multi dotting fights. This goes for Affliction and Balance as well.

[deviantcultist]

I hope they add a proper new Shadow class in 9.0 so I can jump of the Shadowpriest wagon. Tired of the same shenanigans for almost 10 years.

[Kilee25]

I find it strange that Bliz still hasn't figured out a way to let shadowpriests talent back and forth for single or multitarget. They were on the right track in WoD, but then derailed it back again for some reason. Additionally I'm very sad that we never got a proper holy DPS spec, which could have been a nice single target solution without changing how shadow works.

[Relapses]

I find it strange that Bliz still hasn't figured out a way to let shadowpriests talent back and forth for single or multitarget. They were on the right track in WoD, but then derailed it back again for some reason. Additionally I'm very sad that we never got a proper holy DPS spec, which could have been a nice single target solution without changing how shadow works.

CoP was a very boring playstyle and AS scaling wasn't very good unless there were a metric fuckton of adds (see: Xhul). The biggest problem with Shadow in WoD is that an Affliction Warlock did everything a SPriest could...except better. Regardless, I'm certainly not a fan of current Shadow and I'm praying Blizzard scraps Void Form in 9.0.

[Mardux]

its a well deserved nerf, shadow is overperforming in Palace atm, being atleast 10% better than the 2nd best spec,

never trust sims when it comes to DPS (btw the sims you linked are BfD sims not EP sims), Tier 23 is dazar alor

On which fights that aren't spread cleave or gimmick fights are they 10% better than 2nd place?

[ThrashMetalFtw]

its a well deserved nerf, shadow is overperforming in Palace atm, being atleast 10% better than the 2nd best spec,

never trust sims when it comes to DPS (btw the sims you linked are BfD sims not EP sims), Tier 23 is dazar alor

Anybody who has any clue how to read logs or basic understanding of the game, would know that this is false.

The only fight Shadow is broken on is Court, and that has more to do with our mechanics than the tuning. If anything, it's Aff and Doomking multidotting that's too weak, not SPs being too strong.

We're also good on Orgozoa if your intention is to pad instead of actually killing the boss, if you think that counts. Still far behind Mages who can do the same amount of AoE dmg while actually STing the boss aswell.

Za'quul is also much more a case of Blizzard designing bosses that perfectly suit SP mechanics, than the tuning itself.



What exactly do you think will happen when SPs get a massive nerf like that, AND the mechanics/bossdesign that produced those high numbers in the first place, aren't there any more. Shadow is already closer to middle of the pack, than we are the top spot when it comes to pure ST dmg atm. Yeah, multidotting might produce high details numbers, but ST is ultimately the most important thing for killing the vast majority of bosses.


How anybody can claim that Shadow is OP atm, while thinking Mages and Warrs are fine, is beyond me.

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Ok let me rephrase. Shadow should be in the bottom 5 for ST providing they still dominate all multi dotting fights. This goes for Affliction and Balance as well.

Worst idea of all time. Never ever become a class designer. Shadow/Aff/Balance should be competitive on ST and shine on (spread) multidotting. Other specs have their own niches and fight types that favour them.

[Makabreska]

Ok let me rephrase. Shadow should be in the bottom 5 for ST providing they still dominate all multi dotting fights. This goes for Affliction and Balance as well.

So. Much. Nope. Good thing devs don't share this point of view.

Welp. Seems like the only hope now is having lots of multidot fights in new raid. If majority is single target = RIP in pepperoodles.

[Danvash]

If anything, Twist of Fate is what needs to be nerfed. It's been broken for several expansions now. When shadow priests are appropriately tuned, their damage shoots up exponentially on fights where adds die frequently. It's fine if they don't want multi dotters to be at the top on single target, but nerfing their spread cleave is not the way to go about fixing that.

They've specifically designed Affliction warlocks as a single target spec this expansion, with undertuned dots and over-reliance on cooldowns and Deathbolt (which is also getting a nerf) to do damage. I would love for Affliction to go back to being amazing at spread cleave or at AOE like in Legion even if you have to sacrifice boss damage.

[Sarkol]

So. Much. Nope. Good thing devs don't share this point of view.

Welp. Seems like the only hope now is having lots of multidot fights in new raid. If majority is single target = RIP in pepperoodles.

The devs literally do share this point of view considering they just nerfed shadow across the board and wrote a note in their nerfs about it.

I'd be curious to hear why you think it's acceptable for a class to dominate DoT fights and also be extremely competitive/near the top ST. That's called being overpowered.

[Makabreska]

The devs literally do share this point of view considering they just nerfed shadow across the board and wrote a note in their nerfs about it.

I'd be curious to hear why you think it's acceptable for a class to dominate DoT fights and also be extremely competitive/near the top ST. That's called being overpowered.

Yes, and that one overpowered spec got nerfed. Meanwhile, boomies and locks are still fine in single target. You better tell us, where and when you got rekt on dps by those dot specs, so maybe we can understand you better.

[Ellger]

The devs literally do share this point of view considering they just nerfed shadow across the board and wrote a note in their nerfs about it.

I'd be curious to hear why you think it's acceptable for a class to dominate DoT fights and also be extremely competitive/near the top ST. That's called being overpowered.

So only classes that do 0 spread cleave, stacked cleave, aoe and giga burst should be allowed to top single target ? Wow that's like 0 specs in the game.
All specs should have niches, something they excel on, that should never come the cost of single target, look at fire mage, they have absurd ST/AoE burst, that is very valuable and is their niche, so in grand scheme of things they should do non competitive ST since they have a niche, by your logic ?

Nah, sure shadow spread cleave should not be as strong, it's way too strong, no question, but they should still do competitive ST, every spec should.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

The devs literally do share this point of view considering they just nerfed shadow across the board and wrote a note in their nerfs about it.

I'd be curious to hear why you think it's acceptable for a class to dominate DoT fights and also be extremely competitive/near the top ST. That's called being overpowered.

Because there are tons of differnt fight types for other classes to excel at? Everybody should be balanced for pure ST, and SPs/Aff/Boomkins SHOULD dominate spread multidotting fights. I agree that we shouldn't dominate to the extent we are doing on Quuen's Court atm, but we should always win on fights like that, without being the worst ST in the game to "compensate".

And yeah, the devs doing something is in no way, shape or form an indication of that being the correct thing to do, as if that hadn't already been painfully obvious to everybody for multiple expansions already. Especially in regards to classdesign and tuning.

[evertonbelmontt]

Shadow is fine and the nerf is well deserved. You could argue that it was too much but I seriously doubt it.

So does other more reliable shadowpriests, like LeBean #1 SP for M+. As for raids, I think there was a considerable ammount of shadowpriest going for progression AND farm, you can't complain at all.

Having said that, if you're not satisfied with the nerfs, say how much do you think it's more fair or even what is more fair to nerf instead of what they did because honestly thinking shadow is fine is not healthy.

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Yes, and that one overpowered spec got nerfed. Meanwhile, boomies and locks are still fine in single target. You better tell us, where and when you got rekt on dps by those dot specs, so maybe we can understand you better.

Dude ...
Boomies and locks doesn't even begin to compare with SP's multitarget. How did you even tried to compare them both, lol
You'd have a point if they all had the same strenght in single and multi. As it stands afflic and Moonkin should have better ST because at multi shadow is way ahead, specially bursty situations.

[Mardux]

Shadow is fine and the nerf is well deserved. You could argue that it was too much but I seriously doubt it.

So does other more reliable shadowpriests, like LeBean #1 SP for M+. As for raids, I think there was a considerable ammount of shadowpriest going for progression AND farm, you can't complain at all.

Having said that, if you're not satisfied with the nerfs, say how much do you think it's more fair or even what is more fair to nerf instead of what they did because honestly thinking shadow is fine is not healthy.

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Dude ...
Boomies and locks doesn't even begin to compare with SP's multitarget. How did you even tried to compare them both, lol
You'd have a point if they all had the same strenght in single and multi. As it stands afflic and Moonkin should have better ST because at multi shadow is way ahead, specially bursty situations.

Why should they not be balanced?

[Sarkol]

To be fair, i lumped Affliction and Boomkin in with Shadow which wasn't correct. What i should have said is dominating multi target to the extent Shadow has while also being near the top ST is unacceptable. They've been nerfed because of this. Affliction and Boomkin are top of dotting fights but not to a massive degree so being decent in other areas is fine.

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Because there are tons of differnt fight types for other classes to excel at? Everybody should be balanced for pure ST, and SPs/Aff/Boomkins SHOULD dominate spread multidotting fights. I agree that we shouldn't dominate to the extent we are doing on Quuen's Court atm, but we should always win on fights like that, without being the worst ST in the game to "compensate".

And yeah, the devs doing something is in no way, shape or form an indication of that being the correct thing to do, as if that hadn't already been painfully obvious to everybody for multiple expansions already. Especially in regards to classdesign and tuning.

The guy i replied to said he's happy the devs don't share my point of view, when they quite literally do, at least regarding Shadow, which is a spec that's way over the top. Being right is not relevant here.

I also don't agree classes should be completely balanced for ST. There needs to be a difference between specs that have ST as a main strength, and specs which also have big Multi target strength. Otherwise, who would play a predominantly ST spec?