Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
LastLast
  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    I've always thought an easy way to balance both DoT and HoT based classes would be to simply make it so that the more targets they have spells on, the less damage/healing they do. So instead of doing 100% damage on two-four targets, it's 90/80/70/60% each. You're still doing a lot more damage when extra targets are around but not the crazy amount that they can currently do. Same for druids, I know this thread is about Spriests but Druids have and likely always will be the top M+ class due to their ability to stack HoTs.

    Am I wrong here? Is there something I'm missing that would make this absolutely kill the class in general? It seems like an easy fix to prevent them from getting out of hand on multi target fights, but Blizzard seems to just bandaid nerf DoT classes every time they inevitably get out of hand.
    An important part of Shadow Priest's multidotting has always been the fishing for Procs. You'll put DoTs on as many targets as possible, even the ones you don't even want to kill, because multidotting always gave you something. Insanity, Orbs, Apparitions, instant Mind Spike/Mind Blast...

    Multidotting was a key to keep Voidform as long as possible back in the days. So even if your DoTs deal pitiful damage, you'll want them on as many targets as possible (until the point where DoT refreshing hinder your DPS)

  2. #82
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Who knows.
    Posts
    3,300
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    An important part of Shadow Priest's multidotting has always been the fishing for Procs. You'll put DoTs on as many targets as possible, even the ones you don't even want to kill, because multidotting always gave you something. Insanity, Orbs, Apparitions, instant Mind Spike/Mind Blast...

    Multidotting was a key to keep Voidform as long as possible back in the days. So even if your DoTs deal pitiful damage, you'll want them on as many targets as possible (until the point where DoT refreshing hinder your DPS)
    The idea is simply to limit their damage potential so Blizzard doesn't have to bandaid nerf them when gear inevitably pushes their DPS too high. Multi-dotting should always be beneficial and part of the class, but it's part of the reason Shadow always gets out of hand. You could still fish for procs and such, but having DoTs on 4 targets wouldnt result in you doing close 350% damage you'd only be doing like 250%. Still incredibly strong and beneficial to multidot, but not as crazy.

  3. #83
    Multi-dot specs should have some of the strongest sustained cleave but some of the weakest single target damage. Specs like shadow priests and affliction warlock make no sense right now. Blizzard need to get their heads out of their arses.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Multi-dot specs should have some of the strongest sustained cleave but some of the weakest single target damage. Specs like shadow priests and affliction warlock make no sense right now. Blizzard need to get their heads out of their arses.
    The problem is that is very difficult to balance and get right.

    Historically the way that they did it was that we had a dot that could be applied to only one target, and that along with our single target spells would be tweaked up and down so that the damage never got too high or too low. But with the addition of void form and other proc-like mechanics, the formula isn't so easy as just tweaking a few damage co-efficients up or down. Now-days if you mess with them too much the difference between doing fine and completely sucking is literally a hair's breadth difference.

    Additionally I think that people are less likely to put up with their class sucking for entire tiers like in previous expansions. I imagine these days every time a class does too badly for too long, they lose another chunk of long-term customers, who never come back, due to it being an aging game.
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    DPS Loss - my guild on Proudmoore
    The Old Guard - my guild on Earthen Ring
    Revenant - my guild on Echo Isles

  5. #85
    The Patient marathal's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    235
    I have to deal with the balancing that happens because of better players. I can't juggle the void form dance, I always make one minor misstep or find myself needing to move a split second before I would manage to get that one more DoT cast. As you said Kilee, it's a hairs breath. Shadow has always had a level of complexity, and a high skill cap, but it was always possible to be close to where you should based on the gear you had. When you factor in being just that little bit off, either from being older and slower reaction times, or as we have talked about before, input latency, add to that having non optimal gear, and you have a recipe for players getting frustrated,

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Multi-dot specs should have some of the strongest sustained cleave but some of the weakest single target damage.
    Why?

    Specs with the strongest burst aoe and sustained STACKED cleave (which is a lot more common and requires significantly less effort than proper spread target multi-dotting) are still allowed to have top single target damage.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Nospheratu View Post
    Why?

    Specs with the strongest burst aoe and sustained STACKED cleave (which is a lot more common and requires significantly less effort than proper spread target multi-dotting) are still allowed to have top single target damage.
    Because there are in general a lot of raid fights where spread target cleave is essential and specs like shadow and affliction will be way above other specs. The trade off should be lower single-target damage. Shadow Priest should not be a top spec on both fights like Zar’qul and Sivara/Behemoth.

    Ps. Other specs should not either. The whole point is that Blizzard suck at balancing, so you cannot use other specs as examples.

  8. #88
    Just look at MDI and you can see how incompetent blizzard is at balancing.

  9. #89
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    6,750
    Shadow is currently just fine. Is strong, but is not the best DPS, it is near the top... being able to top if well played. Period. So are many other DPS classes.

    The problem is that Blizzard doesn+t want priests to be a top DPS class, that´s what makes the difference.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by EnacheV View Post
    i go to warcrat logs, half of the fights have all top only shadow priests

    what are you complaining about lol ?

    even if they nerf it to be rock bottom from all specs in 8.3 on all fights, its still ok, as someone has to be last and you shadow priest had enough of "winning"
    So? Look at simulation reports, spriest not even top.

  11. #91
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    8,425
    Shadow will be fine, with the amount of multi targets in 8.3 (and great stat scaling).
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  12. #92
    Do you people take in mind how much time it takes to multi dot? Of course multi dot should be rewarding. The thing is that Shadowpriest players have to give 200% effort to do as much damage as a hunter for example and must be perfect in rotation,be lucky in rng trinkets and have in mind that annoying mechanic to hold as much Voidform stacks as possible while trying to avoid mechanics.

  13. #93
    this above is one of the examples of pathetism

    - - - Updated - - -

    This.
    There are broken mechanics in half of the specs and they dont even care
    There are specs that zerg on almost EVERY scenario and they dont EVEN care
    There are a spec that is the punchingbag and we, the community, loves it cause its not "my" class

  14. #94
    Yeesh. I make a point of leveling one of each class to max level every expansion or two, just because. This time around, I already felt like my Shadow Priest was by far the slowest/weakest of my alts to level. It already takes forever for her to kill anything compared to all the other classes, and she dies easier. I'm surprised they're being nerfed.

  15. #95
    with the last expansion stages caster scaling/more power sources i think we will be even more strong on spread/stacked multitarget
    but maybe this hurts a bit our st
    btw why no "balancing" nerfs to other specs that are extremely broken (assuming meta and OK manage)?
    we will see
    it is meaningless to judge/draw conclusions without having touched it

  16. #96
    The nerf is completely justified. Shadow priests are currently over the top overpowered for very little effort. Even after this nerf they'll still be amazingly strong and out dps 90% of other classes.

  17. #97
    Maybe they are tuning it to the new raid - have a look at the fights and see.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    Do you people take in mind how much time it takes to multi dot? Of course multi dot should be rewarding. The thing is that Shadowpriest players have to give 200% effort to do as much damage as a hunter for example and must be perfect in rotation,be lucky in rng trinkets and have in mind that annoying mechanic to hold as much Voidform stacks as possible while trying to avoid mechanics.
    You're picking a bad class to compare to.

    Shadow priest at least has the choice to pick easier ways to keep their dots rolling, through Misery (For multiple targets) or other choices. And single target wise it's a complete joke, apply once and keep void form up as much as you can and your dots will keep themselves refreshed enough basically.

    Keeping your pet at 3 stacks of Frenzy as a hunter is more frantic than that. Never mind the moment you have to change targets or move from one place to another and your pet decides to get stuck on thin air.

  19. #99
    The pet stuck in the air is mostly some bug but for me having to Misery every single add then keep Voidform as much as possible as an extra mechanic along with all those boss mechanics is more stressful than a hunter bug.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    The pet stuck in the air is mostly some bug but for me having to Misery every single add then keep Voidform as much as possible as an extra mechanic along with all those boss mechanics is more stressful than a hunter bug.
    I didn't say "in the air", I said "on random air".

    As in, sometimes pets will just stop moving for no real reason in particular.

    Case in point, Battle for Dazaralor, I lost track of how many times pets would just stop walking down the stairs on the way to Stormwall. As a lock even, just the last week I summoned my Demonic Tyrant (A ranged cooldown pet), for it to stare at the wall instead of moving slightly to the side to get in line of sight of a mob.

    Current example, Blackwater Behemoth, pets love to just stand on the last platform you were on most of the time.

    And on top of that, you missed the frenzied stacks example.

    Trying to ensure your pet has 3 stacks of Frenzy for as long as you can through Barbed shot isn't that different than tracking a dot and managing it, except procs and CDs also affect this and you have to stay on your toes to ensure you don't flub and drop the stack, for BM at least. And I'm using BM as the example because that's usually the "go to" example for "easy hunter spec".

    Voidform you're basically in again as soon as it drops. No procs affect your Void bolt CD, and Void bolt extends your dots anyway so it just becomes a game of Void bolting as much as you can while still generating insanity through your other casts between Void Bolts.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •