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  1. #1
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    The United States Navy just came up short on carriers

    As I've been saying on this forum for years, the United States power projection has been headed for trouble - multiple problems on the logistical, decision-making, and project-management levels are leading to a degradation of capabilities that was going to come home to roost sooner or later; "sooner or later" has become now:

    Pentagon announces new troop deployments to Saudi Arabia
    The Pentagon will deploy about 1,500 extra troops to Saudi Arabia in answer to requests by the leading US military commander in the Middle East and, in part, because the US Navy is unable to send a relief aircraft carrier to deter potential Iranian aggression, multiple US officials tell CNN.

    (This is likely a follow-on effect from last month, when the USS Harry S. Truman Strike Group deployed... without the Truman, which was down for repairs - the Truman was the designated reserve carrier for the US East Coast when it suffered an electrical failure back in August; in theory the Eisenhower Strike Group should be available "soon" as it just finished a shakedown cruise, but soon is not now - and unless the United States gets its act together (to which all signs point to "no") instances like this are going to become more frequent.)
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Thekri's Avatar
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    Well I think it is also fair to say that the constantly escalating requirements for force projection were unsustainable in the first place. It isn't that we are really short on carriers, it is that we overtask them like crazy, because we have increasingly come to rely on having one everywhere.

  3. #3
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    How about we just stop backing up the Saudis.

  4. #4
    The Unstoppable Force Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    "sooner or later" has become now
    Well, I guess the aircraft carrier...just ran out of steam?

    Yeah, when Trump said "no more Endless Wars" I guess he should have added "we'll just rotate between new ones".

    We wouldn't need anyone there at all, if Trump hadn't unilaterally ended the Iran Nuclear Deal. It's his job, as Commander in Chief, to fix this. And it's the job of the voters to rate his performance.

    No-one is above the law.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    How about we just stop backing up the Saudis.
    But they pay us to be their mercenaries! /s
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    (sip.)
    This is also an argument for really downsizing the number of fleet carriers and to replace them with a larger number of escort carriers. Maintain the same number of aircraft available for deployment but from more, smaller, cheaper, tactically flexible platforms.

    This would allow more mission specific numbers of carriers assigned to specific areas of need, and make it easier to plug holes in unforseen situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  7. #7
    It's a major problem that happens (across the world) when the military is worshipped : the military is not by essence more competent than any branch of the government. This is compounded by the US problem of throwing money at problems.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    This is also an argument for really downsizing the number of fleet carriers and to replace them with a larger number of escort carriers. Maintain the same number of aircraft available for deployment but from more, smaller, cheaper, tactically flexible platforms.

    This would allow more mission specific numbers of carriers assigned to specific areas of need, and make it easier to plug holes in unforseen situations.
    Like the 10 LHAs we already have? Not sure what else would really count as an escort carrier in this day and age, and we do use the LHAs for force projection, they are just a lot less formidable then a carrier unless they deploy the marines they carry.

  9. #9
    A temporary gap caused by, more so then anything, the fact the first Ford carrier has been plagued by fairly significant issues...and the US in their infinite wisdom did not think to maintain their older non-nuclear carriers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    This is also an argument for really downsizing the number of fleet carriers and to replace them with a larger number of escort carriers. Maintain the same number of aircraft available for deployment but from more, smaller, cheaper, tactically flexible platforms.
    America has escort carriers. They are called the Wasp Class. Then there's the America class which the US is building without having a plan to replace their existing Wasps, at least not right now.

    For an idea the US currently has 10 carriers and 9 "escort" carriers. It will soon add one more escort and replace one Nimitz class carrier.
    Last edited by CostinR; 2019-10-12 at 04:31 PM.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    because the US Navy is unable to send a relief aircraft carrier to deter potential Iranian aggression
    Ger real, if one carrier (USS Abraham Lincoln) cant be a deterrent, why would two carrier make a difference?

  11. #11
    It also shows the carrier is not needed

  12. #12
    It's hard to maintain the military without conflict. Frankly, you should always be at war; there are enough bad guys around the globe to keep your military machine well oiled.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    It's hard to maintain the military without conflict. Frankly, you should always be at war; there are enough bad guys around the globe to keep your military machine well oiled.
    No.

    Wars deplete military stockpiles and readiness.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    No.

    Wars deplete military stockpiles and readiness.
    But they keep the orders coming in for the defence companies!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    No.

    Wars deplete military stockpiles and readiness.
    Perhaps I misspoke, what I meant was always be performing combat missions, rather than war. We should always be performing combat missions. Wars like the ones we did in Iraq or Afghanistan were a complete waste of money and willpower.

  16. #16
    just throw more money at the problem what could possibly go wrong!!!
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  17. #17
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
    Ger real, if one carrier (USS Abraham Lincoln) cant be a deterrent, why would two carrier make a difference?
    Lincoln isn't on a standard deployment, and isn't assigned to the 5th or 7th - she's en route to her new home in San Diego with the 3rd, and is supposed to be there by the end of this month (despite denials by the Trump admin, a long stopover with CENTCOM was clearly not in her initial itinerary); that's not a hard deadline or anything of the sort, but the more she's late the more things will slip and the more likely the USN will end up looking at a situation like this again, again sooner than they'd like, which is doubtless why the US DoD has not extended her deployment with them (plus, her crew is awfully green - this was supposed to be a working cruise to help smooth things out, not full steam ahead into a shooting war; the absolutely last thing US international prestige needs is to abruptly abandon an ally to slaughter at the whims of a Chekist's bootlicker, but only slightly above that is losing a carrier in a skirmish with a 3rd-tier regional power like Iran).
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  18. #18
    Oh
    my
    god.

    This is so sad.

    Do they need more money? Will that fix it?

    Here! Take my money! United States government! Take my energy!

  19. #19
    Immortal Hammerfest's Avatar
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    It's no surprise to me that after eight years of Obama, the Navy can't send another aircraft carrier out there to relieve the current one. Nobody should be surprised by this at all.
    -Harlan Hammerfest, Paladin

    "Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you forgotten doublethink?" - O'brien, from Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four"

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    It's no surprise to me that after eight years of Obama, the Navy can't send another aircraft carrier out there to relieve the current one. Nobody should be surprised by this at all.
    I’d figure you'd see them as a waste of money, since they could fall off the rim of the Earth.

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