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  1. #21
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Blizzard will keep W7 support until W7 users no longer make up a significant fraction of the playerbase.
    Pretty much. If time wasn't an indicator, it was XP dropping below 10% market share, which W7 will likely hit sometime in 2020-2021 I imagine.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Some people actually have to continue, because their software is OS specific. Besides, Microsoft made some rather questionable design choices in W10.
    W10 is so much more superior than 7 honestly - I understood it with the disaster that was 8, but there's no excuse or reason now to still be using 7. Anything that runs on 7 should have no real issues running on 10.

  3. #23
    Old God endersblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Losing 30% of customers?

    Yeah, good idea.
    Now show the correlation. How many of those Windows 7 users actually play WoW? I bet you it isn't as high as you think it is. That "30%" is taking into account all of the random machines that people use in their workplace, that haven't been updated for various reasons. I work in IT and we have two machines that we have to support that still run Windows 7 because the software they need won't work in Windows 10. Or the old fogies that never upgrade. Or the thousands of phone support computers in the Philippines or India that never get upgraded.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Losing 30% of customers?

    Yeah, good idea.

    Please think about it. If Win10 is so great, why would so many people still stick to Win7? May be there is some reason?
    Because there is plenty of people and businesses who don't really give a damn as long as things work.

    I mean you still have people using Windows 8 or XP... simply people who either got their PC/Laptop with that shit and never bother to update or are just completely computer illiterates.

    At some point things will stop working and they will move on, Windows XP also was a big deal and you too had these "Windows XP till death do us part" holdouts.


    For example, I was visiting China for business trips just about 2 years ago and they still use Windows XP in factories and even ODMs. Why? Because frankly as a business, they don't give a damn as long as this shit works and some stuff they use is so ancient nobody even ported it to Win 7 let alone 10. Heck, I even had to run Windows XP VM because there were a couple of tools that simply did not work in any newer OS (not even compatibility mode or anything).

    So yeah, this is a good chunk of your 30%. How many of them are WoW audience? I'd imagine there are still quite a few, but these will disappear in a couple of years once games start demanding DX12 only and Win10 by proxy.

    Blizzard will drop support soon after cost of maintaining DX11 version of the game compatible with Win7 will outweigh the potential loss of dropping it.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2019-10-12 at 07:42 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Windows 7 extended support ends Jan. 14, 2020. SE is already planning to end 7 support of FFXIV that day.

    Wonder when WoW will end 7 support? They don't seem to wait too long. Wonder how many people THAT will piss off.
    People have NO right to be pissed off. Microsoft offered FREE upgrades to Windows 10 for YEARS. If they did not take advantage it, then that is their problem. Not Square's. Not Blizzard's.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    People have NO right to be pissed off. Microsoft offered FREE upgrades to Windows 10 for YEARS. If they did not take advantage it, then that is their problem. Not Square's. Not Blizzard's.
    Whether they have right to or not is one thing, I just want to see how bad it gets lol.

  7. #27
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Blizzard will lose me as customer at exactly that day.

    I don't see a reason to end it's support by games. Yeah, it's reasonable, when old OS has some limits, that slow down game's improvement. Yeah, it would be reasonable, if Windows itself would improve with time. But it's development is frozen and therefore 7 isn't that obsoleted. Security risks are my business. They aren't so important anyway. I'm not enterprise and I don't host some servers, that can be attacked by hackers, so any security breach would be important for me. I live behind NAT, don't install any untrusted software. This is all about forcing Win10 on me, that I don't personally like and would rather switch to Linux, than to it.
    If security risks are your business, you are very bad at that business. An unsupported OS remains a security risk regardless of what measures you put in front of it...it's called defense in depth, and you'd be very familiar with that concept if you were any good in the security business.

    The simple matter is that it isn't in Blizz's interest to support customers on obsolete platforms. It costs time and money to support every OS version as it is...supporting obsolete versions is higher cost to support very, very few customers. There are many reasons to drop Blizzard, but not supporting your obsolete version of Windows is about the dumbest reason I can think of.

  8. #28
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Some people actually have to continue, because their software is OS specific. Besides, Microsoft made some rather questionable design choices in W10.
    Yes and no. In my line of work we're often presented with that situation. Some multi-million dollar business runs their operation off a ~2004 era XP machine because "their software isnt supported by Win7/10"

    No.

    You didn't upgrade at the proper time and pigeonholed yourself into it. It sucks, and yes, you're gonna need to spend a ton of money rebuilding your operation with new software like you should have in the first place. One of our big policies is not to cater to what business customers 'want'. It's to get them solutions for what is proper for the business.

    I have yet to run into a situation that 'requires' them to use old software, or there isn't an alternative or resolution. Just rip dat bandaid off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Please think about it. If Win10 is so great, why would so many people still stick to Win7? May be there is some reason?
    There's a lot of reasons, actually. The main one being they don't think they need to upgrade. Very much 'if it aint broke dont fix it'. If the computer still does the things it's supposed to (and it totally will, as long as something bad doesnt happen, which it will), then why upgrade?

    Win7 update process might be broken so it wont upgrade.

    Their hardware is too old.

    They don't even know about Win10 or that they can upgrade.

    Honestly, I run into very, very, VERY few cases where someone actually 'wants' to stay on Win7, if they know about the upgrade. Most of the time it's a case of "I dont have the time/money to invest in switching over"

    So, no. There isn't really a reason people stick to Win7.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Blizzard will drop support soon after cost of maintaining DX11 version of the game compatible with Win7 will outweigh the potential loss of dropping it.
    I imagine Blizzard will likely drop Win7 faster than it did XP, simply because the market share for 7 is dropping significantly faster than XP did, mainly due to the much easier upgrade path. XP->7 was a much more brutal process than 7->10. Win7 will die much faster than XP ever did, not because it's bad, but because it's so much easier to migrate from, both from a cost, and technical perspective.
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  9. #29
    Banned Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    why would so many people still stick to Win7?
    Because people are stupid and cheap.

    Business don't like to spend money until they are forced to. It was just the same was windows XP back then. The migrations will start at the end of support.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Because people are stupid and cheap.

    Business don't like to spend money until they are forced to. It was just the same was windows XP back then. The migrations will start at the end of support.
    It's not that easy. Tax deductions can mean that it's more profitable to buy stuff you don't need.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Because people are stupid and cheap.

    Business don't like to spend money until they are forced to. It was just the same was windows XP back then. The migrations will start at the end of support.
    I can say the same. People, who switch to Win10, just because it's update, think that they're "smart", but majority of people just don't want to spend their resources on fixing, what isn't actually broken. I would understand this situation, if Win10 would improve, leaving previous versions obsoleted due to some fundamental incompatibilities. But it's frozen forever. I.e. what works now - will actually work forever.

    Currently I'm not sure, what to do. The best strategy now - to just wait. If end of Win7 will mean end of Wow for me, then may be it's a sign, that I should finally stop playing that crap. Nothing bad, if next xpack will have same quality, as BFA. Sad thing, but time goes and goes and, I guess, we will die before Blizzard will implement something really great, like player housing or some other "must have" feature, I wouldn't want to miss.

    I don't play other games that much to bother about overall gaming.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2019-10-12 at 08:32 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Please think about it. If Win10 is so great, why would so many people still stick to Win7? May be there is some reason?
    They'll upgrade when they buy new computers.

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I have crazy plan to have 3 OSs at the same time. Linux with encrypted FS for work. Because go to hell, telemetry.
    Heh

  13. #33
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    If end of Win7 will mean end of Wow for me, then may be it's a sign, that I should finally stop playing that crap.
    That... seems silly.

    You are going to need to upgrade eventually. Period. Software will stop supporting Win7 a lot faster than XP.

    What you're really saying is "End of Win7 = End of using computer lol"
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    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    What you're really saying is "End of Win7 = End of using computer lol"
    He's going to be using Linux with encrypted FS because he's terrified of "telemetry".

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Back in old days I sat on WinXP without any updates for several years and have never got hacked. Security patches are for enterprise only. My computer works just perfectly now and won't all of sudden stop working after 7's end of support. Blizzard just should continue doing, what they're doing now. Nothing more.

    But yeah. At the end it's just game. It's not thing, that is so important, that it would affect my OS choice. And yeah. I think about switching to Linux for a long time already. Because it's Microsoft's choice to switch from "You get, what you've paid for" business model to Apple's/Google's "Corporation of evil" business model.
    If you were using windows XP just 1-5 years ago and you never got hacked it's because nobody actually tried to hack you. Stop being naive.

  16. #36
    Banned textz's Avatar
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    MS wont stop Win7 support 2020. yes, Win7 will still be supported 2020.

    https://www.golem.de/news/microsoft-...10-144216.html

    and those paid patches will be leaked as always.

    so nonsense to doomsayers, 2020 isnt the end of the win7. btw - y does WoW perfom better on win7 DX11 than Win10DX12 (i7-6990k, RX580, 16gb)?

  17. #37
    Why would anyone use Windows 10 and give all their information/computer data to NASA?

  18. #38
    Most of the time, it is businesses who are stuck with older OSes because the software they rely on was never updated to work with newer versions of Windows. Additionally, businesses are reticent to incur the costs for a major overhaul of their IT systems and instead prefer the band aid method.

    For end users, there are a few who are die hard fans but most of the time, users are either stuck with an old OS because their computer is ancient or they are not tech savvy and do not realize they are in desperate need to upgrade their OS.

  19. #39
    There are enough users on Windows 7. It's likely that they won't stop its support anytime soon.

  20. #40
    Banned textz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightforged View Post
    Most of the time, it is businesses who are stuck with older OSes because the software they rely on was never updated to work with newer versions of Windows. Additionally, businesses are reticent to incur the costs for a major overhaul of their IT systems and instead prefer the band aid method.

    For end users, there are a few who are die hard fans but most of the time, users are either stuck with an old OS because their computer is ancient or they are not tech savvy and do not realize they are in desperate need to upgrade their OS.

    simply ignorance. y WoW does perform better on win7 DX11 than win10 DX 12 (i7 6900k, RX 580, 16gb DDR4)?
    cuz its been iterated on DX11 and win7 DLLs for most of its lifetime.

    so this ancient technocratic prejudice (new is always better*) of die-hard-fans and unsavvy users is simply ignorance.

    (*discord is not better than TS in most terms)


    btw - again: MS wont stop win7 support 2020

    https://www.golem.de/news/microsoft-...10-144216.html

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