Texas police officer fatally shoots woman in her home after welfare check

[Endus]

Quote from your source: "...Officers entered the house and located an individual and a firearm..."

If someone aimed a gun at me through an open window I'd call that justification.

You'd be wrong. The police hadn't announced themselves, so as far as the victim could be concerned, there were strange people sneaking around in the backyard, peeking into windows and vehicles. Every reason for her to assume they're criminals casing the place, and to arm herself against a potential home invasion.

She had every right to arm herself.

Worse, in Texas they have Castle Doctrine, so she should have pre-emptively shot the officers. It would have saved her life, and she'd have been in the legal right to do so, per Castle Doctrine.

The reason some of us get so angry about this shit isn't because "yeah, dead cops", it's because cops like this have continuously demonstrated that the police are the enemy of the people, and this provides reasonable grounds for defending yourself from the threat they inherently pose to you. Better to take the shot and survive to stand trial than to let yourself be murdered, as she ended up doing. Cops acting like this, and departments defending them, and people doing the whole "the police have no duty to protect" thing, this all translates to "cops are your enemy, treat them accordingly". And that makes things far more dangerous for police officers.

[dubious_doomhammer]

Quote from your source: "...Officers entered the house and located an individual and a firearm..."

If someone aimed a gun at me through an open window I'd call that justification.

Fort Worth police have said they found a firearm inside the house, although it wasn't clear whether Jefferson was near the gun when she was shot. Merritt said it was legally owned and she had a license to carry.

The Fort Worth Police Department quickly released bodycam footage from the shooting. The video did not include the interior of the house, except to show a blurry image of the gun officers found after the shooting. Lt. Brandon O'Neil declined to answer questions about why police released the images of the gun; in her open letter Monday, Price called the gun "irrelevant."

Article

She was in her own home, she had a license for the gun, and the gun was legally owned. Police parked away from the house, did not announce their presence, and crept around her house like thieves ... they were called for a welfare check on a non-emergency police line, as in not a 911 call.

Cops had zero justification for murdering her.

Like @Endus said, better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6 ... at least in this case.

[Endus]

Article

She was in her own home, she had a license for the gun, and the gun was legally owned. Police parked away from the house, did not announce their presence, and crept around her house like thieves ... they were called for a welfare check on a non-emergency police line, as in not a 911 call.

Cops had zero justification for murdering her.

Like @Endus said, better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6 ... at least in this case.

Also, let's consider the 2nd Amendment. It isn't the right to own arms. It's the right to bear arms. Carry them; have them on your person. If having a gun on you becomes grounds for summary execution by chickenshit cowardly cop, then that's an infringement of your 2nd Amendment rights, over and above the murder part.

I don't personally agree with the broad strokes of the 2nd Amendment, but its existence has to mean that a police officer cannot consider someone being armed as a threat to that officer. They have the legal right to arm themselves. If you're sneaking around without announcing yourself on their property, they have a right to draw that weapon and target you, for their own protection. This cannot constitute grounds for an officer to begin shooting. Not without attacking the 2nd Amendment rights of the citizen.

As I said earlier in the thread, it doesn't matter if she was armed and had her gun aimed at the officer. It's still murder. She had the legal right to do so, per Castle Doctrine. If she'd be within her legal rights there, you can't argue that the officer was in any way entitled to shoot her.

[Lodreh]

...you can't argue that the officer was in any way entitled to shoot her.

It's a tragedy and the entire situation is suspect. However, when the OP says, "...I don't see how it could justify shooting someone through a window at their own house..." I was merely stating that I could see the justification. If an officer tells you to put your hands up while you are aiming a firearm at them and they shoot... yeah I can't say I'm surprised. I'm not defending the officer's actions. I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.

[united]

I'm not defending the officer's actions.

Yes you are.

I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.

So you're justifying not only murder, but the guy completely failing as a police officer too. Please never ever ever become a police officer, or join any other profession in which you deal with the lives of other people. America needs less people that have the same decision making skills as you and the officer that is the subject of this thread in positions like being a cop.

[Lodreh]

Understanding is not the same as condoning my friend.

[Bryntrollian]

It's a tragedy and the entire situation is suspect. However, when the OP says, "...I don't see how it could justify shooting someone through a window at their own house..." I was merely stating that I could see the justification. If an officer tells you to put your hands up while you are aiming a firearm at them and they shoot... yeah I can't say I'm surprised. I'm not defending the officer's actions. I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.

If you're conducting a welfare check on a residence, wouldn't it be standard procedure to make your presence known to the occupants of the establishment, rather than creeping around like a burglar at 2AM? There actually isn't any justification here at all.

[prwraith]

It's a tragedy and the entire situation is suspect. However, when the OP says, "...I don't see how it could justify shooting someone through a window at their own house..." I was merely stating that I could see the justification. If an officer tells you to put your hands up while you are aiming a firearm at them and they shoot... yeah I can't say I'm surprised. I'm not defending the officer's actions. I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.

Don't we have a quote from the police saying he said hands up, and fired basically simultaneously.

Stop fucking defending or justifying this monster. The officer deserves everything coming his way and then some. If you can understand his point of view, you can understand he was a power tripping moron.

[Endus]

It's a tragedy and the entire situation is suspect. However, when the OP says, "...I don't see how it could justify shooting someone through a window at their own house..." I was merely stating that I could see the justification. If an officer tells you to put your hands up while you are aiming a firearm at them and they shoot... yeah I can't say I'm surprised. I'm not defending the officer's actions. I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.

You are defending them.

Understanding is not the same as condoning my friend.

You're saying it was a reasonable response. That's "condoning".

"Understanding" would involve acknowledging that the officer was a poorly-trained, cowardly piece of shit, all of which contributed to him choosing to murder someone. It doesn't present his actions as reasonable or justifiable, it identifies the failures of character that led to him choosing to murder someone.

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Don't we have a quote from the police saying he said hands up, and fired basically simultaneously.

We have the body camera footage; he shot about 0.5 second after telling her to put her hands up. She didn't have time to react to anything he'd said before he shot her dead. Which is probably why the charges came down so quickly in this instance; there's no gray area.

[Moadar]

Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.

[prwraith]

Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.

Honestly I've already seen the facebook posts from black people I know saying, so not call a wellfare check. Call friends, call family, or get neighbors together to check. But don't call the cops.

And frankly...who can blame them.

[muto]

Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.

Or common sense.

[Moadar]

Or common sense.

Asking for that leaves too much to chance.

[Zaktar]

The woman who was shut WAS THE VICTIM.

Se clearly had a lot to worry about.

I know there was a lot to read here, but next time try getting to the end.

I'll make it easy.

Anyway please don't take this to mean I support what happened in the incident at hand. It's a tragedy and the officer in question deserves punishment, and the system which produced him needs to be reformed.

If you're referencing a scenario in which you're dealing with the police as a victim of a crime... you must not understand the context of the conversation we were having. There is nothing this woman could have possibly done differently, she had no idea she was dealing with the police.

[kaid]

Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.

or maybe just ring the doorbell and announce yourself as police?

[Machismo]

I know there was a lot to read here, but next time try getting to the end.

I'll make it easy.



If you're referencing a scenario in which you're dealing with the police as a victim of a crime... you must not understand the context of the conversation we were having. There is nothing this woman could have possibly done differently, she had no idea she was dealing with the police.

Precisely, which means she was the victims... meaning sometimes, victims of crimes do have plenty cause to worry about the police.

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Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.

Maybe, not murdering people in their own homes would be a better call.

[Beazy]

I heard on the news earlier that this guy was on his way to being fired because of 3 or 4 "improper use of force" incidents in the past year or so.

Sounds like a shoot first, ask questions later kind of guy. He committed a crime with a firearm, which in the City of Ft.Worth means he gets the maximum sentence allowed, outside of the judges discretion.

Word to the wise kids, dont have a gun on you and commit ANY crime in FtWorth, Waco, or any other eastern TX city reall, or you're going to have a bad time in Huntsville. Also remember, there is no AC in the Huntsville prison.

[Moadar]

or maybe just ring the doorbell and announce yourself as police?

People still end up getting shot.

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Maybe, not murdering people in their own homes would be a better call.

Well that's the goal. Just have to figure out how to get there.

[Temp name]

Well that's the goal. Just have to figure out how to get there.

Properly train your police.

Like, from what others have said in this thread, it's <6 months training. How that is acceptable is beyond me, considering the amount of situations they're supposed to be able to handle

[Freighter]

Don't you have the death penalty for people just like this guy?