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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    While i dont agree with his statment thats a idiotic conclusion.
    People prefer differnt things in online games. When someone is asked to perform a dance dance revolution boss mechanic and its insta wipe because 1 guy didnt get it right its gets frustrating quick. Nothing to do with pressing 1 button. And obviously that's 1 attempt so in the next one i could be the one or someone else. Varying people have differnt opinions, including myhtic raiders.
    Also i agree that the game teaching you ignoring mechanics is retarded and killes of its own playerbase. The raiding community is in a steady decline forever because new recruits have no grasp of anything. A blizzard created problem because they give people gear that they have no business having which let them brute force mechanics that they dont even read the tooltip off.
    Being angry about single person wiping a 25 people raid on a higher difficulty is really strange to me. It is basically a team game want it or not. If your goalkeeper didn't catch the ball you lose. If your mid player fed the enemy Meepo/Ahri, guess what, you lose. Don't expect a zero responsibility from a team based game. It's like jumping into a winter lake and whine about the water being cold.

    In contrast, lower difficulties are made SPECIFICALLY for this where you can kill the boss with only a half raid alive while simultaneously being harder than classic raiding.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    Being angry about single person wiping a 25 people raid on a higher difficulty is really strange to me. It is basically a team game want it or not. If your goalkeeper didn't catch the ball you lose. If your mid player fed the enemy Meepo/Ahri, guess what, you lose. Don't expect a zero responsibility from a team based game.
    Thats a really REALLY dumb analogy. In a soccer game i can be a good defense player and keep of the burden of the goalkeeper. If we catch a goal as a forward i can turn the tide. Thats the point.
    Doing a arbitrary dance where someone gets a random mechanic and he didnt clicked something perced or LoS it and everthing blows up is not the same.

    Actually activsion blizzard went out his way to even block off racials or class immunities and unique abilities in raid encounters so you cant do anything that isnt preplanned.

    This is also again, very, very dumb because a) by removing this you dont "smash 1 button" in retail b) your claim that all team game functions this way is wrong because classic was brought up

    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    In contrast, lower difficulties are made SPECIFICALLY for this where you can kill the boss with only a half raid alive while simultaneously being harder than classic raiding.
    I dont think you understand what ignoring mechanics means. Half of your raid is not dead in lower difficulties all the time.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    If we catch a goal as a forward i can turn the tide. Thats the point.
    Yes, you also can do extra as a dps if other dps dies or rotate healers saves on hard hitting abilities when the tanks are supposed to switch. Obviously I'm talking about LFR here, but you don't get instantly blown in normal and heroic. Yes, you can't ignore the core mechanics, but they're very forgiving there and instead of instagibbing people they just make your raid life harder. So yes, I stand by my analogy.
    Class immunities were nerfed because they were abused to ignore raid mechanics, nothing more, nothing less.

  4. #24
    For me, I always wanted to raid in Vanilla, so that was my goal with a side helping of enjoying the questing experience. When I look back, I actually breezed through leveling with the help of a guide. I took detours for dungeons here and there, but it was mostly questing and grinding. I listened to an entire audiobook slamming levels into those squishy blood elves in Azshara. But I noticed I like to have the sound and music up just a little bit; it helps keep me connected to the game if that makes sense.

    It's been fun, can't wait for the other raids.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ReD-EyeD View Post
    This statement has zero basing, especially after you calling them "terribly designed pale shades of mythic".
    I also fail to understand how "waiting for a pull where no one fucks up and the boss dies" is a flawed design.
    So what you're saying that you only want a zero personal responsibility spamming 1 button, right?
    It’s flawed design because gear limitations are non existent. Stretching for a bit more dps or managing your mana correctly and barely keeping everyone alive while not going oom doesn’t matter. All that matters is whether no one messes up the mechanics that are designed to wipe you. I’m generally pretty good at learning heroic level mechanics so it’s pretty boring.

    I just did my first onyxia kill and it was super easy obviously, but I had to watch my mana and make a million small decisions because at the end of the day my healing output is limited. A few people failed mechanics but we didn’t wipe immediately like happens frequently on live. In live, on a first heroic kill, healers are probably doing 50% overhealing and those decisions mostly don’t exist. But as soon as someone fails a big mechanic, it’s wipe time.

    This is also why gear doesn’t matter on live. If I’m doing 50% overhealing on a first kill, by the 10th I might be at 200%, but the raids still gonna wipe if Johnny Pugnuts screws up a mechanic. In classic every gear upgrade is gonna mean I can carry more because my output won’t be as throttled.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2019-10-13 at 04:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Key word in your post: ADVENTURE.
    You remember people that helped you, you remember generous people, you remember the hateful quests and how good it felt getting your mount.
    Honestly does anyone remember leveling or world quests the past 2-3 expansions (apart from the fucking turtles)??? No they don’t, because they weren’t hard or dangerous.

    Time invested = Remembering.
    This is exactly it. I didn't think I'd enjoy simple questing as much as I am.

    The formula is content challenging enough to be inefficient or difficult for a single at-level player to complete, and challenging enough for small groups to have to consciously cooperate. Frequent need for this level of teamwork, as well as a closed environment, necessitates courtesy. At the same time, the content is enjoyable to play solo, so grouping is often a polite or friendly means to an end, discouraging full parties from spiraling into a Diabloesque, numbed flow, clearing quests and tasks that aren't well-designed for them. Add several layers of object-related gameplay like relevant professions, consumables and even vendored items, and there's a pretty robust RPG underneath the interaction.

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    I had a pretty similar experience. I'm not using any autopilot addons but I did pick up Questie around level 15 so I knew where all the available quests were hidden. As a Prot Paladin, I had a really rough time for a while. Everything took so long to kill and if I pulled more than 1 mob, I was dead. I did play back in the day but that was 14 years ago and I had a friend helping me back then so I don't remember having such a hard time leveling. I basically had to relearn how to play my class in this version of the game. I'm now constantly fighting 2-3 mobs at a time and am enjoying the game a lot more than before. There have been a few slow patches where I didn't really know where to go because all available quests were a bit too difficult for me (orange) and I would keep dying. I'm currently 47 and have been bouncing between Hinterlands, Feralas and Tanaris. I'm all done with Hinterlands now, though. Bouncing around between zones can get a bit annoying. I prefer sticking in one zone and following a story until you fully complete the zone storyline. Overall, the experience has been ok. The game has many flaws and I prefer retail's content but I'm just not enjoying the gameplay of my favorite specs at the moment. Once classes get revamped again, maybe they'll be more enjoyable to play.
    Check out my game, Craftsmith, on the Google Play Store!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    While i dont agree with his statment thats a idiotic conclusion.
    People prefer differnt things in online games. When someone is asked to perform a dance dance revolution boss mechanic and its insta wipe because 1 guy didnt get it right its gets frustrating quick. Nothing to do with pressing 1 button. And obviously that's 1 attempt so in the next one i could be the one or someone else. Varying people have differnt opinions, including myhtic raiders.
    Also i agree that the game teaching you ignoring mechanics is retarded and killes of its own playerbase. The raiding community is in a steady decline forever because new recruits have no grasp of anything. A blizzard created problem because they give people gear that they have no business having which let them brute force mechanics that they dont even read the tooltip off.

    - - - Updated - - -


    You showing a great point in an attempt to building a strawman.
    Its no coincidence that people struggle with bosses like jaina, wherein every raid there are 1-2 bosses, you can ignore mechanics or botch them hardcore.
    There have always been easy bosses in a raid, in literally every expansion ever made. It's deliberate. Letting some people have some degree of success encourages them to keep trying. If they made a boss like Jaina the first boss, 95% of people would just give up and never raid again.

  9. #29
    To me the classic example of what's wrong with retail is the Hellfire Citadel after Gorefiend. Here's what the bosses are:

    Iskar: One person screws up the eye, you wipe.
    Socrethar: Fel prison, felblaze charge, and numerous other mechanics through which one player can wipe the raid.
    Velhari: Player mishandling Annihilating Strike = wipe.
    Zakuun: Player with latent energy soaks something wrong. Wipe.
    Xhul'horac: Player takes both damage types in succession, causing annihilation wipes.

    After 2-3 months, most pug raids just disbanded after Gorefiend. The next 5 bosses were all just personal responsibility based pug killers. It was awful. A lot then reformed for Mannoroth and Archie. I was super super geared for heroic, and it was basically pointless. 2/3 of Socrethar pugs would collapse after 2-3 wipes due to mechanics failures.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  10. #30
    I levelled a paladin as holy from 1-39 and had to give it up due to struggling to quest and not having enough time to actively find groups to dungeon grind.

    I've switched to hunter, and hit 37 in a fraction of the time (for obvious reasons) but by far and away my biggest problem has been being ganked. I'm not complaining, it's part of the game and I purposely rolled on a PvP server to play with friends (and to do some ganking myself!) but I have to say, I'd forgotten how flat out obnoxious it is to be killed over and over by skull level Horde, especially in places like Desolace where the gy positioning means a 10-15 minute run back. Extra graveyards is one minor QoL change I wouldn't personally have objected to.

    Having said that, for the most part, I'm thoroughly enjoying replaying Classic, having not done it for 14 years or so. I've got enough saved for my mount and I'm getting childishly enthused about nearing 40, and digging into some old raids again. I have some minor concerns about finding groups to attune for stuff, but we'll see how it goes.

    /end blogpost.

  11. #31
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    My experience so far 1-56 : worst experience ever.
    And yet you played *56* levels. You're either a troll or a masochist, because if I hated it that much I'd quit long before 56.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    And yet you played *56* levels. You're either a troll or a masochist, because if I hated it that much I'd quit long before 56.
    I have nothing to play and Retail is boring :/

    ps : I'm still playing.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I had fun leveling, then I hit 60, and I'm concerned that the endgame right now is just too easy. I haven't done MC yet, but my first pug killed Ony with 26 people in 3 attempts, and UBRS might have been the easiest dungeon I've ever done. If the endgame is easy, things like gear and professions just don't matter too much.
    We are playing on a catch up patch for mc and ony.
    19KbBmTBCvHyA3eHFhP8UCnbx2JoYA3az6

  14. #34
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    I have nothing to play and Retail is boring :/

    ps : I'm still playing.
    LOL... I understand that.

  15. #35
    The Patient Vrinara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Which server were you playing on?
    I am on Bloodsail Buccaneers US

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    My experience so far 1-56 : worst experience ever.
    That is a lot of time to invest in something you don't like.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    To me the classic example of what's wrong with retail is the Hellfire Citadel after Gorefiend. Here's what the bosses are:

    Iskar: One person screws up the eye, you wipe.
    Socrethar: Fel prison, felblaze charge, and numerous other mechanics through which one player can wipe the raid.
    Velhari: Player mishandling Annihilating Strike = wipe.
    Zakuun: Player with latent energy soaks something wrong. Wipe.
    Xhul'horac: Player takes both damage types in succession, causing annihilation wipes.

    After 2-3 months, most pug raids just disbanded after Gorefiend. The next 5 bosses were all just personal responsibility based pug killers. It was awful. A lot then reformed for Mannoroth and Archie. I was super super geared for heroic, and it was basically pointless. 2/3 of Socrethar pugs would collapse after 2-3 wipes due to mechanics failures.
    Okay, this legit brought back good and bad memories. I was raiding in a US200 guild at the time, actually still in the guild just not raiding, but there were a couple guild killers in this raid.

    The biggest one I remember was Gorefiend.

    But you are correct about the others too. It was hard to get past Mannoroth without a couple warriors and bladestorme, and a DK to grip.

  18. #38
    The Patient Vrinara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by l7arkness View Post
    Preety cool post
    Thank you!

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    That is a lot of time to invest in something you don't like.
    You are right, I don't even know why I'm playing this crappy game :/

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    After 2-3 months, most pug raids just disbanded after Gorefiend. The next 5 bosses were all just personal responsibility based pug killers. It was awful. A lot then reformed for Mannoroth and Archie. .
    And in retail, you could at least do that. In classic you can't, which is why any talk of classic raiding being better for PUGs is absolutely hilarious.

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