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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I had fun leveling, then I hit 60, and I'm concerned that the endgame right now is just too easy. I haven't done MC yet, but my first pug killed Ony with 26 people in 3 attempts, and UBRS might have been the easiest dungeon I've ever done. If the endgame is easy, things like gear and professions just don't matter too much.
    Endgame is super easy, if people know what to do and are doing their parts. Running UBRS with a team that doesn't communicate or do their stuff properly is a nightmare.
    Onyxia was never hard. Neither was MC. They are both entry level raids. It's not them people talk about when they talk about difficult things in Vanilla. The only challenge in MC is Ragnaros, who actually requires some DPS and gearing up for and consumables.
    "DIE, INSECT!" - words to live by

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    While I’m worried about their extreme easiness at the moment, I’m also a huge fan of the more accessible raid design in classic.

    Retail mythic raids are all about hyper coordination and personal responsibility. This is extremely exclusionary. The coordination requirements mean that your raid team has to be very consistent, people have notes on screens with cd rotations etc., and that coordination takes a really long time to get comfortable with.

    The personal responsibility means that in most fights, your 20th best player can wipe the raid. You can’t really carry anybody.

    Vanilla raids are mostly about gear. Your tank needs this much armor to survive, your dps needs to be above x. It means that you can be a bit more flexible and pug, or carry a few people. It means that your worst player can’t wreck the raid. It also means that you can join a group fresh and do the fight without reading a 1000 word article on wowhead describing the mechanics. You just get geared up and go. It’s so much better.
    I get where you are coming from, but why don't you just raid normal on retail if you want accessibility?

  3. #43
    Mechagnome Vrinara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sibut View Post
    Why does everyone seem to confuse this site with blogspot?
    Why do you insist on commenting on someones post sharing their experience? Also the site ought a be a blog sight now with all the stuff people post on it. Just go look at the forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Really? You dinged 10 and got to pick (clever readers will notice a highlight with the only right pick from this line for leveling):
    2% chance for mobs to not resist part of your spells / 0,4s cast speed on one spell / more healing from an ability that you don't have yet /10% more effective imp / more health at expense of spirit / more shadowbolt damage after landing a crit with shadowbolt / lessen manacosts by part of your spells by 1%

    And felt like you've accomplished something? Compared to picking a spec?

    Leveling a warlock to 10 must be one of easiest experiences i had, thanks to curse of weakness mobs barely scratch you, and all you need is steady supply of drinks and patience to spam weak-ass shadowbolt.


    This is also weird, because there is at least a quest that send you to different places, like loch modan.


    That's usually a point at which novelty of things burns out. Frankly, we rolled on classic with almost 20 people, started a guild, but at about level 30-40 most of those people left classic and started playing live wow instead, because they felt like there is nothing to do on classic.


    You are level 30, what is this "spec" you are talking about?


    Uh-huh and i hope you didn't expose random strangers to this insanity of yours

    Agree that class quests should be back (preferable with leveling experience re-work), but not in the way they are in classic

    Hard pass on this pile of garbage full of "you can't skip this talent, because it'll be useful at level 50, doesn't matter that it's useless for you now lol"

    That's because this game is new, and BfA is "old"

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    Oh yeah, doing something but crafting or fishing or grinding non-quest mobs in secluded location was such a pain in the ass without friends and/or guildies offline or doing their own thing. At some point i was so tired of leveling that went back to leveling my gnome hunter without using green quest item upgrades. Which i did and had way more fun than farming damn turtles.
    I am not even gonna reply to all this. But yes, I am pretty insane. I am playing a lock after all. I never got to experience the Vanilla experience (Which I've heard mixed stuff about) So I don't really know what I am doing tbh. Someone mentioned Drain Tanking, I watched a video, thought it looked fun, and tried it. *Shrugs*

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Did i end up on blogspot by mistake?
    Tired response?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Oh yeah, doing something but crafting or fishing or grinding non-quest mobs in secluded location was such a pain in the ass without friends and/or guildies offline or doing their own thing. At some point i was so tired of leveling that went back to leveling my gnome hunter without using green quest item upgrades. Which i did and had way more fun than farming damn turtles.
    I wasn't aware that this was a 1-40 leveling experience in current wow. And that somehow tortollans had time-traveled. I have my hang-ups with current, believe you me, that doesn't mean vanilla gets off scott free, my dude.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    That's literally how you do LFR/normal mode raids in live wow
    The target audience for classic raiding is the same as retails LFR/N raiding. The contradiction is that the same people "hate" LFR (the only raid difficulty they managed to try) while "love" classic raiding. It is a good thing classic exists for this kind of people.
    -

  7. #47
    Start playing like 15 days ago ( there 15 days left on my 1 month resub)

    So far it was cool from 1 to maybe 20
    Now I'm 26 and the past 6 level were a pain in the ass, I'm park somewhere in Ashenvale and its just blehhhh, boring

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    To me accessible is not the same as easy. I like fights that are hard because of gear that then get easier as you gear up.

    Heroic and normal don’t work that way. They’re all mechanics.
    Then classic is not for you either, cause we blasted through MC and Ony with low levels and undergeared af people. Stop being pretentious.

  9. #49
    The Patient Cockus Maximus's Avatar
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    The main appeal of Classic IMO isn't the game itself, but the social interaction that inevitably takes place while you're out and about. That being said, I couldn't get past level 10 before feeling like I'm wasting my time on a dead-end game and stopped playing.

    Now, I'm enjoying some time off from WoW altogether while waiting for Visions of N'Zoth to drop. I do hope that they implement certain features of Classic into future WoW expansions though. Especially if they do a rework of the leveling experience I think the LFG feature should only be available at max level to incentivize questing and bring more of the social aspect back to the game.
    Last edited by Cockus Maximus; 2019-10-14 at 08:05 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I had fun leveling, then I hit 60, and I'm concerned that the endgame right now is just too easy. I haven't done MC yet, but my first pug killed Ony with 26 people in 3 attempts, and UBRS might have been the easiest dungeon I've ever done. If the endgame is easy, things like gear and professions just don't matter too much.
    Pretty much in the same boat. Hit 60 4-5 weeks ago and haven't had much reason to log on since then. Done a dungeon every now and then when guildies have asked and they're very easy, still waiting on more guildies to get to 60 so we can clear mc/ony. I don't see myself logging on for more than raids once that happens, which will probably be 1 day a week.

  11. #51
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    The only part I disagree with is the oft-repeated "Blizz should take a leaf out of classic and integrate it into live"

    No. Retail is a different game targeted at a different market. This won't happen. Classic is different for a reason.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Agreed, if you look at my first post a while ago, I talked about how I was concerned with how easy those bosses were. But I expect Naxx to be different.

    I don't know what you mean about being pretentious. But I do think it's clear that over the years as mythic has gotten more and more advanced and they've added more and more ways to get gear/power to the game, raid difficulties below mythic have necessarily moved away from gear as a source of difficulty and made it all about mechanics.

    A dps check boss in heroic will be silly 10 weeks in because the ratio of power gain is so crazy. My hope with classic is that because power gains are so much smaller, that we can get this gear focused difficulty and sense of progression that's lost on live raids outside mythic.
    People have literally cleared MC in like 6-7 hours when it was still fresh for everyone during classic, and now people have cleared it in what? 17 mins? It won't happen to this extreme in naxx, but dude, you are in for a big surprise if you think that smaller gear stat gains will change that. Also it's funny how you say that the gear isn't that impactful, when the hammer of grace you get from council of seven gives +30 or so healing spellpower, and the hammer from Naxx gives 160-170 (without factoring in hammer of the twisting nether that drops from KT himself, at which point you don't need more upgrades really, which gives a whooping 252 healing spellpower.

    The difference in that is fucking massive. And so much gear later on gives more crit/mana regen. If a holy paladin spams flash of light for a minute or two straight they go oom now, but in naxx they can literally spam it forever, and it will deal so much more healing due to all the gear pieces having more spellpower.

    Similarly, other specs will become super strong like fire mage and warlocks. If you do normal raids on live, you don't need much gear, and you just need to be aware of boss mechanics. The same thing works for Classic raids. It's not retail's problem that you find mythic difficulty a hassle, and choose to compare it to classic's raid difficulty. It's your fault. You just cannot recognise your limits, and do not understand that you are actually a normal raider, but cannot settle for that, due to thinking that you MUST for some reason do mythic.

    It really doesn't matter, and no one will care if you, or I, are mythic, or LFR raiders.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Your response to me presumes that those difficulties below mythic are interesting and that I should do normal raiding and be happy. It's my opinion that those difficulties are just boring because they are designed poorly. To me, the central thing that's fun about raid progression is gear progression. You hit a brick wall, you get more gear, next week it's a bit easier, repeat. That basic progression just does not exist in heroic, normal, or LFR because most people massively outgear the content the moment they step in the instance. It's more that you get in there, you read the mechanics, wait until everyone else in your group gets it right, boss dies. I'm not a normal raider, I'm unsubbed. Normal sucks. Heroic sucks too. It's because they're designing for mythic and the mythic design doesn't work on heroic level.

    You might be right that I won't get that feeling out of classic because it's also too easy. But I'm hopeful. When people in Nihilum were saying that there are bosses in Naxx that they couldn't kill without world buffs due to dps requirements, I'm hoping that means they'll still be somewhat hard for casual groups today.

    Most of my favorite moments in raiding way back in the day came from beating the bosses where I was oom at the end of the fight, barely struggling to keep the tank alive. But the last time I can remember that happening was Imperator Margok in Highmaul when my group had a bad healer comp. But in early Cata it used to happen all the time. It happened to me the first time I fought Ultraxion, but I was pretty undergeared at that point because I skipped firelands. Those fights are really fun. They don't exist anymore.

    I also fondly remember being super geared in Dragon Soul and being able to carry groups with some dodgy players. That also doesn't exist on live... a group failure is usually a mechanics failure, and people die faster than you could ever heal them. The HPS meter is about luck because everyone's doing silly overhealing. A 15 person raid group has a big healing cooldown available every 45 seconds or so, and that's how you deal with the stressful moments instead of spamming.

    It just feels like a different game now. A massive bore.
    I see your point now. An interesting PoV.

    I don't have much to say really, as you were very analytical with your reply, we just have to wait and see, how Naxx will turn out. I have taken a break from retail mythic raiding atm myself, not because I dislike it, on the contrary, I love it, but my guild has died, and I am not sure of how many, 2/3 day a week raiding guilds are there in top 100, which aren't filled with douchebags (my guild was surprisingly a very ideal progression/fun environment for me).

    I play classic, and I like how easy going it is, and I look forward to see Naxx, AQ, and BWL, as well as the smaller AQ and ZG raids. After experiencing both, I can see how some people might prefer walls made due to gear, rather than raw mechanics. I personally prefer a mix of those, with mechanics more on the heavy side. Nothing beats the satisfaction of for example dealing with a trio combo of mechanics that are happening at the same time, over 10 seconds, which require heavy fight awareness, and on top of that, to perform good dps/hps wise, for me.

    I hope we will both continue to enjoy our own type of raiding, now that there are certainly both types out there, and we can pick! Have a good day mate!

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Vrinara View Post
    1-10: Because I started playing during launch, it was rough questing in the starting zones. There was waves of people just destroying mobs everywhere. It was very hard to level, even on a rp server like I am on. But once I hit level 10 and got my first talent point.. I felt like I accomplished something, and considering Live (BFA) leveling, when you get to your talents and have to pick on, It doesn't feel like I accomplished anything. Here it felt great and made me smile.
    I didn't start leveling until a couple of weeks after servers went live and it was still a nightmare. It took me forever just to finish the Defias Pillagers & Looters quest because no matter what time of day or which spawn I went to they were always completely wiped out from the area. I also like that we get a talent point each level. Maybe that 2%, or whatever, isn't a big deal but I still feel like I gained something other than a small stat boost when I level.

    11-20: This was very rough because I didn't know where to go after completing the human starting zone. At this point, AAP was telling me to go to Darkshore.
    Weird. You should've had one or two quests sending you to Westfall from Elwynn. Darkshore is not an easy place to get to as a non-NE unless you're familiar with routes.

    I really am enjoying the game. I feel like I am on an adventure. Something I don't feel on Live (BFA) anymore. It's something I miss.
    This is the main reason I loved Classic, it's about the journey. I know I'm going to rapidly lose interest at 60 because I'm not particularly interested in raiding and I've forbidden myself to do the PvP grind (again).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrinara View Post
    Someone mentioned Drain Tanking, I watched a video, thought it looked fun, and tried it. *Shrugs*
    If it's fun, why not? I'm constructing a prot paladin focused on return damage and cannot wait to get to the point where mobs beat themselves to death on me. XD
    "We must now recognize that the greatest threat of freedom for us all is if we go back to eating ourselves out from within." - John Anderson

  15. #55
    My experience from 1 to 35 was so nostalgic that I was so surprised. I think I'm getting addicted once again

  16. #56
    Mechagnome Vrinara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I didn't start leveling until a couple of weeks after servers went live and it was still a nightmare. It took me forever just to finish the Defias Pillagers & Looters quest because no matter what time of day or which spawn I went to they were always completely wiped out from the area. I also like that we get a talent point each level. Maybe that 2%, or whatever, isn't a big deal but I still feel like I gained something other than a small stat boost when I level.



    Weird. You should've had one or two quests sending you to Westfall from Elwynn. Darkshore is not an easy place to get to as a non-NE unless you're familiar with routes.



    This is the main reason I loved Classic, it's about the journey. I know I'm going to rapidly lose interest at 60 because I'm not particularly interested in raiding and I've forbidden myself to do the PvP grind (again).



    If it's fun, why not? I'm constructing a prot paladin focused on return damage and cannot wait to get to the point where mobs beat themselves to death on me. XD
    It did give me them, but I was using AAP and it sent me all the way to Darkshore to quest. So I missed Westfall

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