1. #1

    Molten Core Loot Specifics, need help from Raid Lead perspective

    Please share any links you have that could help answer the following questions. Please don't post about loot systems, those discussions can go here: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-To-Deal-With or here: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ems-In-Classic

    --What items are BiS for ALL patches and for what classes?

    --What items are BiS until Phase 6?

    --Are there any notable substitutions of nearly-BiS, say paladin healing gear over cloth or leather DPS gear over plate?

    --What tier bonuses are very important? (Hunter 8/8 is amazeballs, correct?)

    --Are dagger rogues with Molten Core weapons better than swords rogues without MC weapons?

    --Same question for fury warriors...are there pre-raid builds that are better than builds with Molten Core drops for non-optimal weapons?

    --What items are highly sought after for PvP?

    I'm sure someone has worked this all out before, but I couldn't come up with a google query that didn't get me BiS lists for individual classes.
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  2. #2
    In terms of BiS i remembered this one:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1622864778

    This is a google doc that was postet on mmoc in the past. It was updated regularly i think and has all in it with enchants and everything.

    I don't think there are items BiS for all patches. But i could be mistaken. I remember bloodvine being pretty good for warlock but that's not in until ZG. But once it's out warlock wear it until Naxx i think.

    Hope that helps

  3. #3
    Boy that's a really good resource, I didn't even see the third tab at first...GD someone spent a LOT of time on this. But still having all the raid items in one table with their drop chance and all hyperlinked is pretty handy.

    But the problem with BiS lists is they need context...for example Brutality Blade is listed as both sword rogue BiS and hunter weapon BiS.
    Last edited by garicasha; 2019-10-13 at 05:44 PM.
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    But the problem with BiS lists is they need context...for example Brutality Blade is listed as both sword rogue BiS and hunter weapon BiS.
    Well yea but i think that's the challenge of distributing loot. In this case for the hunter it's a stat stick and for the rogue it's the OH. You can't really give context since the situation is always different imo.

    What do they have equipped right now? (how big of an Upgrade is it?)
    How fast are they going to replace the item in the future?

    In this specific case you mentioned the hunter for example keeps this weapon until P4 where as the Rogue would replace it in P3. While that's the case i would say the Rogue will benefit more from it since he is reliant on the weapon damage where as mentioned it's only a stat stick for the hunter.

    People only can give you pointers in the right direction but the final desicion is always pretty specific on the actual situation.

  5. #5
    we went for nobrainers. Like Strikers Mark goes to melee since hunters get their leaf. Most +hit gear goes to tanks at the start cause Threat Per Second is more important then any other stat in MC right now.
    This is our list right now:
    Spellpower ring: 1 ring per caster, Prio mages.
    Cauterizing Band: priest/druid prio, 1 per healer
    Band of accuria: Tank Prio
    Talisman of Ephemeral Power: Warlock/spriest prio.
    Robe of Volatile Power: Warlock prio.
    Mana igniting cord: Mage prio

    When it comes to weapons we just give em out to what ppl need. Brutality Blade is MC off-hand bis for most DW classes and since for example hunters gain some kind of melee weapon from their quest they will sit out on melee weapons.
    Later on they will ofc get items aswell but we just push rogues and warriors first since their damage output is way better then hunters and they will keep the weapons longer then hunters.

    DW melee dont have much to choose from so giving em what little there is seems to be the best.
    2h Warriors are easy to gear since none of the weapons are good for hunters.

    Quickstrike is BiS for all physical classes until BWL so Quickstrike we give out to all physical classes based on what the Loot Council deem correct.
    Some "bis" DW weapons we give to Tanks just to get their TPS going and after that we give it to the class that gains most from it.

    Items that last longer for one class get prio ofc. Like an item beeing BWL BiS for Warlocks but AQ BiS for mages we then give to mages. And so on.

    But its alot of work to actually find all the "bis" for each phase etc. and we more or less use 2 ppl for the loot council that ask around during drops to see what items are "bis" when it comes to dist. loot

  6. #6
    Band of Accuria is essentially BiS forever for tanks as a 2% hit source on ring is very convenient, if slotted out wont be until Naxxramas.
    Striker's Mark BiS forever for mDPS, Tanks get a better crossbow in AQ, leave tanks with satyr bow/lbrs bow for hit while giving striker's to melee.
    Onslaught Girdle BiS for both DPS warriors and threat until Razuvious in Naxx
    Bonereaver's Edge BiS until you swap to DW (Horde only), should swap to DW when you are BWL/AQ geared.

  7. #7
    TY guys, very helpful.

    I believe there's also at least one feral BiS item?
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by exeetor View Post
    Talisman of Ephemeral Power: Warlock/spriest prio.
    why though? when it synergizes so well with arcane power?

  9. #9
    Actually here's a good one...does anyone need Sulfuras? I know fury warriors are eventually dual-wield, but I don't know why.
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Actually here's a good one...does anyone need Sulfuras? I know fury warriors are eventually dual-wield, but I don't know why.
    I'd say no, nobody should need Sulfuras for raid environment. There are better options. Warriors DualWield because Fury is build as a dual wielding specc, since you have the talent to do 50% more damage with the offhand.

    The only viable weapon for 2H fury, is Bonereaver's Edge off Ragnaros. This is a monster
    "DIE, INSECT!" - words to live by

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Actually here's a good one...does anyone need Sulfuras? I know fury warriors are eventually dual-wield, but I don't know why.
    If you have a retri pally or an enh shaman in your raid they could use it i guess?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogarash View Post
    I'd say no, nobody should need Sulfuras for raid environment. There are better options. Warriors DualWield because Fury is build as a dual wielding specc, since you have the talent to do 50% more damage with the offhand.

    The only viable weapon for 2H fury, is Bonereaver's Edge off Ragnaros. This is a monster
    Isn't Nightfall also a reason to use 2H for fury? Not for the damage of course but because of the debuff it provides.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by exeetor View Post
    Talisman of Ephemeral Power: Warlock/spriest prio.
    That sounds absolutely awful for all the mages in your guild. Whats the reasoning for excluding them on this very desirablle trinket?

    Actually, you ahve alot of really really weird loot prios.

    locks excluded from both ring and bis belt?
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2019-10-15 at 09:35 AM.
    "My brother thinks I'm crazy to play the same game for years. He doesn't understand. I plan to play it for the rest of my life."

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post

    --What items are BiS until Phase 6?

    --Are dagger rogues with Molten Core weapons better than swords rogues without MC weapons?


    I'm playing a dagger rogue so I'll take a stab (kek) at these two. Ancient Core Leather Gloves are BiS until Naxx gloves (and only not BiS then with C'thun dagger).

    Dagger rogues (15/31/5 combat spec) damage is comparatively as good as sword rogues. Sword will have the slightest edge over dagger depending on the fight, but it also depends on if the player is Human or not. For humans I think swords are always BiS, but for any other race, you can get as much DPS out of daggers as swords.

    I'm rocking Perdition's + Core Hound Tooth and a guildie human rogue has Viskag + Brutality Blade. We're generally neck and neck when it comes to dps. I barely won out on Ragnaros last week, he barely won out on Golemagg etc.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrel8490 View Post
    In terms of BiS i remembered this one:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1622864778

    This is a google doc that was postet on mmoc in the past. It was updated regularly i think and has all in it with enchants and everything.

    I don't think there are items BiS for all patches. But i could be mistaken. I remember bloodvine being pretty good for warlock but that's not in until ZG. But once it's out warlock wear it until Naxx i think.

    Hope that helps
    This table is a good baseline. From there onwards in any sane guild your players should be able to mutually agree who's rolling and who's not, if they so wish. Priority from BiS->upgrade->offspec/pvp. Having class prios over the BiS list doesn't improve anything.

    Going much into details what's good/best in PvP for each class/spec is unnecessary in my opinion as well. If it's not on the raid BiS/upgrade list, it gets the lowest priority anyway.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kawaii View Post
    I'm playing a dagger rogue so I'll take a stab (kek) at these two. Ancient Core Leather Gloves are BiS until Naxx gloves (and only not BiS then with C'thun dagger).

    Dagger rogues (15/31/5 combat spec) damage is comparatively as good as sword rogues. Sword will have the slightest edge over dagger depending on the fight, but it also depends on if the player is Human or not. For humans I think swords are always BiS, but for any other race, you can get as much DPS out of daggers as swords.

    I'm rocking Perdition's + Core Hound Tooth and a guildie human rogue has Viskag + Brutality Blade. We're generally neck and neck when it comes to dps. I barely won out on Ragnaros last week, he barely won out on Golemagg etc.
    A quick question about Dagger Rogue.

    In the BiS list they say Alcor's Sunrazor is the best pre Raid OH. Is there a good replacement for this weapon? To my understanding this is a World drop so there is little chance i'll get one on my rogue.

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