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  1. #41
    I dont think so, like have we even seen a Vulpera in game that can be a druid? Surely if there were, we would have seen it by now so Im going with no
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    But then again, in the story, we're pretty brutal murder machines and not really "strategical assets". Just send us in and we'll murder everything in our way!
    So I guess the solution here is simple - we'll murder everyone.

  2. #42
    Fake rumor. They wouldn't announce a new class for an allied race after already announcing it, unless they announced it wrong, but PTR is already up, so...

    That said, I'd love if a small race could be druids, but it's not gonna happen.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  3. #43
    A rumor based on absolutely nothing

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Both would no longer be members of their original group. Eredar Warlocks are numerous, Draenei Warlocks do not exist. A Mag'har becoming a Warlock would literally turn green.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Foxes don't even exist in Zandalar.
    You go and tell the Vulpera that.
    Vulpera are fox-humanoids, but foxes themselves don't exist there. Catform being fox-form is a ridiculous enough concept as it is, but then one realizes that foxes don't exist in Zandalar... so what are they basing it off of? lol.

    I mean, I get that it was tongue in cheek, but I'm just sayin'.

    And naturally, I agree with the first bit. It's what I was saying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    That makes sense... still Alpaca for travel form though
    Sure, why not?
    Last edited by therealbowser; 2019-10-13 at 10:17 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Draenei exist exclusively because they seperated themselves from the Eredar, and to remain pure (i.e., to refrain from becoming corrupted by fel magic like the rest of their race was). Draenei warlocks would literally be going against they are called draenei in the first place. May as well rename the race "eredar" at that point. Not to mention, their race being okay with this would be taking a steaming pile onto the story.
    Again, outliers exist. We can easily keep the Draenei exactly as is, and have a group of htme secretly come together with the idea that they can use fel powers to help the world. The Draenei are not a hive mind. Individuals can diverge and have their own thoughts. Make it a secret society that does everything to stay hidden. Make it a storyline item. Make it interesting. The race as a whole can hate the notion and be against it, but allow players to have the fun of the intrigue and clandestine doings.

    Most people are okay with that because there's no price too high for arbitrarily playing the class/race combo they happen to think would be fun. I simply disagree.
    And that's fine too. Disagreements breed discussion and thoughts. I put a higher emphasis on fun than lore. YMMV.

    But this is just based off of cultural choices. An eredar warlock can exist, we saw a few of those in WoD. Now we are getting into races that literally cannot be the classes you are referring to. Mag'har (lit. pure/uncorrupted orcs, btw) have brown skin because when they are exposed to fel magic, they gain green skin. So, and I mean this very literally, mag'har warlocks can't exist. They'd be regular orcs with green skin if they practiced fel magic.
    Again though, you can incorporate that into your narrative. Make the Mag'har Warlock desperate to keep signs of fel corruption from showing. Make them seek out magics that slow down the signs, give them quests that hunt down secrets to keep their appearance. Have fun with it. One thing that current WoW does a piss poor job of is making what race you pick matter. Every option that makes racial choice important or relevant is something that I think should be explored.

    This would go behind taking a steaming pile on the lore to get a class/combo they wanted, and literally retconning all of the story so far to make it work.
    It really wouldn't. A race is not just one thing, and that's something WoW really struggles with. There is variety in every race, and an opportunity to tell multiple stories that take characters in different directions.

    Your argument that "lore is important, but so is fun" is ridiculous, because you are acting like there should be a balance. Right now, there is a balance, and it leans heavily into the favor of 'fun', which I am fine with. But some lines shouldn't be crossed.
    I think the opposite. The balance is heavily slanted to an old notion of lore, than is really outdated considering the age of the game and the length of time that characters have been living with one another. The notion that a Night Elf, for example, can't be a A Paladin or a Human can't be a Druid is silly to me. It may have made sense when the game launched, but all this time later with all of the developments that have happened, it seems arbitrary and stifling.

    Either way the argument is moot because it doesn't apply to vulpera druids. Vulpera druids are fine lorewise. They just haven't been explained yet, and would require that. The real thing holding them back is the fact they'd need unique models. And adding new models is a huge time investment, much more than people are making it out to be. This is the biggest reason why druids are one of the least popular races, not specifically because of lore.
    They only need models if: 1) They are given unique models (though to be fair, after the new Druid additions this expansion it would be disappointing if they didn't) or 2) They didn't use existing but different models. Is it no work? Of course not. But they've accomplished it twice this expansion, so it's clearly not a break point for them.

  6. #46
    God knows the Horde is in desperate need of a non-Troll and non-Tauren druid race, but I doubt this. Blizzard would be using all the new druid forms for marketing purposes, not keep them under wraps to surprise us lol.

  7. #47
    Why does it matter anyways? Some people did not want Vulperas as allied race at all. I did not because it doesn't make sense.
    The only argument I ever got here for Vulperas which is supposedly to be a legitimate one is "they are cute and ferocious".
    They may be cute but that ferocity is weak.
    Yet here we are.

    So yeah, they should most definitely add druids to Vulperas because it will make equally sense as adding Vulperas to the Horde.
    None whatsoever.

  8. #48
    I am not going to play "quote splitter" to that degree, and I am not going to parrot what I already said to that degree. I am just going to cover the gist of your argument, here, and add where it feels like I should. "Rewrite the lore so that any class can be playable". This is literally what you are arguing. This literally translates to "The lore is totally irrelevant compared to 'fun'". You're entitled to your opinion but don't pretend like this is a balance between 'lore' and 'fun', because it is not... lol.

    The lore has already been sacrificed over and over again for the sake of what players want, and this is okay. But there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. Your opinion is basically that lore shouldn't exist because it doesn't matter. Again, you are entitled to this, but trying to pretend that you are looking for a balance between the two is ridiculous. Don't even try to pretend this is the case.

    You may feel like limitation holds back a story, but I feel like this is entirely wrong. Limitation allows story elements to have flavor. Like you are arguing that mag'har warlocks hide their fel corruption. Why do they want to be warlocks? Why are they trying to hide their corruption when green orcs exist? An even worse example for them would be orc paladins, when they literally hate the lightforged so much that they would kill anyone who showed signs of being lightforged. A paladin is expressing that in the purest notions. (Not to mention, an orc paladin? WTF?) Classes and races would feel irrelevant--that is to say the races and classes themselves, individually would feel irrelevant, not the combinations as you hope for--and the game would suffer for it. And the lore would be rewritten to a dramatic degree to accommodate this. It's unavoidable.

    Furthermore the bit where you are saying "new druid models are optional" is extremely pushing it. Maybe for some races, for instance blood elf druids could use reskins of night elf forms, but even then it would be very lazy design and feel bad for them. You are even trying to argue that it's okay if they half ass it, NP. This really bothers me, to be honest. It's telling me that you don't even care about the quality of their implementation, you just want it to happen watever. I'd like to think this is not the case but it's not the story you are telling.

    Personally, I think that more class/combos could potentially be added, but there are and always will be those that simply will not fit, or will simply feel extremely bad to have in game. The classes with these problems are paladins, shaman, druids, and warlocks. Basically everything else can (and often is) available to every race as it is. Even something like tauren rogue could work (as ridiculous as it sounds and feels), but there are class/race combos that would break lore. There's no going around this, period. Either these cannot exist, or lore is broken/rewritten to accommodate the very small amount of players that think lore is irrelevant and everything should be playable just because.

    Fortunately, Blizzard does realize this and there's no risk of it happening, but I am confused how you are able to convince yourself that this could work, and why you want it so badly? Let alone that this somehow would still be a balance between 'lore' and 'fun', or that these changes would be 'fun' to begin with for that matter. Being restricted from playing a class on a certain race isn't a restriction of 'fun'...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I think the opposite. The balance is heavily slanted to an old notion of lore, than is really outdated considering the age of the game and the length of time that characters have been living with one another. The notion that a Night Elf, for example, can't be a A Paladin or a Human can't be a Druid is silly to me. It may have made sense when the game launched, but all this time later with all of the developments that have happened, it seems arbitrary and stifling.
    Like, let's look at this comment since it's putting lot of what's going on in this discussion. Why is a human not being able to be a druid "silly" to you? The humans have never shown interest in being a druid, and you have the option of playing as a kul tiran druid with rich lore backstory for it if you want to. (Night elf paladins are another story; actually, I think they should be playable based off of the events in Legion)

    Druids in particular are special because only those with special training can become them. Up until BFA, this existed exclusively through the Cenarion Circle, though that lore was bent a bit to allow Kul Tirans and Zandalari, the latter of which are something else entirely converted into being similar enough to apply as druids, and the former being from a different source of similar magic.

    In any case, druids have very rich lore behind them and this is because each race that becomes a druid has specific, powerful reasons for being a druid, or wanting to be one in the first place. You can't just eliminate this and have the lore still mean anything. You could develop this kind of lore for most of the races (undead druids are the opposite of what druids would be doing, just wouldn't work), but doing it all at once, even if this kind of lore was possible, would make it feel meaningless.

    Here's an example why would dark iron dwarves, who basically scoff at nature and live in a freaking volcanic mountain, want to be druids? Giving them druids would take away from their theme as a dark iron dwarf because it's based off of their culture, which doesn't like nature and lives in a freaking volcano. This also makes druids feel worse because now they are recruiting races that go against their teachings just because they can. No reason or logic behind it. Just because "players want it" and the "lore is not important". Except this would be one of the least played combos in the game, so the work put into this wouldn't even matter.

    I see this argument all the time and I don't think people ever appreciate what they are really asking for.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    Transformer mechagnome druids would make more sense compared to vulpera druids.
    I dont think it will work since they are still half gnome. Either you get transforming mech parts and the humanoid torso and head or the gnome itself is what transforms and they maintain humanoid robotic parts.

    If mechagnome druids had to be fully mechanized I'd be ok with it though.

  10. #50
    what a shit show lmao
    An Karanir Thanagor,
    Mor Ok Angalor..

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    I dont think it will work since they are still half gnome. Either you get transforming mech parts and the humanoid torso and head or the gnome itself is what transforms and they maintain humanoid robotic parts.

    If mechagnome druids had to be fully mechanized I'd be ok with it though.
    Are you trying to argue logic in a game where people throw fireballs from their hands, ride dragons into battle, and there are walking/talking cows?

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    Vulpera already have more classes than MG...Horde has more Druids than Alliance even though Night Elves were the original Druids. Be complete BS if Vulpera get Druid.

    Alliance should get KT Pallies or Worgen Shaman is this were true...
    Tauren were the original druids. Malfurion just copyrighted the name.

  13. #53
    Honestly we have enough druid races at this point.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    I am not going to play "quote splitter" to that degree, and I am not going to parrot what I already said to that degree. I am just going to cover the gist of your argument, here, and add where it feels like I should. "Rewrite the lore so that any class can be playable". This is literally what you are arguing. This literally translates to "The lore is totally irrelevant compared to 'fun'". You're entitled to your opinion but don't pretend like this is a balance between 'lore' and 'fun', because it is not... lol.
    I find it easier to follow the flow of a conversation by quoting and replying personally. But all good.

    My argument is more tied to: The lore is malleable. It's a story and not a set of rules to live or die by. We can change the lore when it's more fun to do so. And I do find it balanced insomuch as it's a balance between absolute free form, and following a connected story. I just feel that the narrative is too restrictive when it comes to player options. Restrictions that may have made sense 15 years ago don't make sense today.

    The lore has already been sacrificed over and over again for the sake of what players want, and this is okay. But there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. Your opinion is basically that lore shouldn't exist because it doesn't matter. Again, you are entitled to this, but trying to pretend that you are looking for a balance between the two is ridiculous. Don't even try to pretend this is the case.
    That's not my opinion at all. My opinion is that the Lore is malleable and c an change as the narrative evolves. That it should create guidelines and not hard and fast rules that can never be broken. Balance is knowing that you can adpat Lore to fit your story, rather than going the other way around.

    You may feel like limitation holds back a story, but I feel like this is entirely wrong. Limitation allows story elements to have flavor. Like you are arguing that mag'har warlocks hide their fel corruption. Why do they want to be warlocks? Why are they trying to hide their corruption when green orcs exist? An even worse example for them would be orc paladins, when they literally hate the lightforged so much that they would kill anyone who showed signs of being lightforged. A paladin is expressing that in the purest notions. (Not to mention, an orc paladin? WTF?) Classes and races would feel irrelevant--that is to say the races and classes themselves, individually would feel irrelevant, not the combinations as you hope for--and the game would suffer for it. And the lore would be rewritten to a dramatic degree to accommodate this. It's unavoidable.
    Why do Mag'har want to be Warlocks? Because they see Orc Warlocks and think that they too want such power. Why hide their green skin? Because they don't want their fellow Mag'har to know of their dealings. Maybe it's pride. Or shame. Or something more devious. It's a story hook. And why not let Mag'har be Paladins? Do all of them hate the concept of the Light so much that it seems unthinkable? That maybe they meet Tauren Paladins and think that these noble creatures have something to offer? I hate the notion that a race is 100% the same in thinking. That doesn't exist. There is variety in every race. If a player thinks that an Orc Paladin is fun to play, and we can craft a narrative that allows for it (which isn't hard), why not?

    Furthermore the bit where you are saying "new druid models are optional" is extremely pushing it. Maybe for some races, for instance blood elf druids could use reskins of night elf forms, but even then it would be very lazy design and feel bad for them. You are even trying to argue that it's okay if they half ass it, NP. This really bothers me, to be honest. It's telling me that you don't even care about the quality of their implementation, you just want it to happen watever. I'd like to think this is not the case but it's not the story you are telling.
    But they are. Worgen and Trolls got retextured Druid forms, not new models. Hell, even Kul'Tirans didn't get newly rigged models. Would it be super if every Druid race and 100% unique models for their forms? Absolutely. But that doesn't currently exist for the races we have now, so does that mean that every new addition needs to have it?

    Personally, I think that more class/combos could potentially be added, but there are and always will be those that simply will not fit, or will simply feel extremely bad to have in game. The classes with these problems are paladins, shaman, druids, and warlocks. Basically everything else can (and often is) available to every race as it is. Even something like tauren rogue could work (as ridiculous as it sounds and feels), but there are class/race combos that would break lore. There's no going around this, period. Either these cannot exist, or lore is broken/rewritten to accommodate the very small amount of players that think lore is irrelevant and everything should be playable just because.
    "...but there are class/race combos that would break lore. There's no going around this, period."

    Not there aren't and yes there is. There is no race/class combo that can't happen. It's just a matter of fitting into the narrative. There is no line in the sand that can't be crossed, only whether or not a desire to do so exists. And I'd wager it's not a small amount of players either. I'd say the majority would be pretty happy if they could suddenly play a race/class combo they always wanted to but never could.

    Fortunately, Blizzard does realize this and there's no risk of it happening, but I am confused how you are able to convince yourself that this could work, and why you want it so badly? Let alone that this somehow would still be a balance between 'lore' and 'fun', or that these changes would be 'fun' to begin with for that matter. Being restricted from playing a class on a certain race isn't a restriction of 'fun'...
    And I'm confused as to why you think these things can't happen or why the lore is more important than fun. It absolutely is a restriction to fun if that's a race/class combo you'd love to play. If I think an Orc Paladin would be the funnest thing ever, and arbitrary restriction to it at this point is nonsensical. It's a legacy item from 15 years ago that is no longer applicable. Because Orcs aren't all the same, and the notion that an Orc couldn't have decided to leasn the path of the Paladin from other Horde races is silly and archaic.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    And why not let Mag'har be Paladins? Do all of them hate the concept of the Light so much that it seems unthinkable? That maybe they meet Tauren Paladins and think that these noble creatures have something to offer? I hate the notion that a race is 100% the same in thinking. That doesn't exist. There is variety in every race. If a player thinks that an Orc Paladin is fun to play, and we can craft a narrative that allows for it (which isn't hard), why not?
    I think being almost wiped out by nazi paladins would make them stay away from the light.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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  16. #56
    Very unlikely considering that the druid forms would have been datamined by now.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by scrappybristol View Post
    it's still kind of weird

    don't forget that worgen are cursed humans and night elfs, they weren't born animals like Vulpera were.
    taurens /10chars

    also whole idea is VERY unlikely, there is literally no reason for them to keep it secret , expecially since we knew patches in advance that zandalari and kultirans could be druids

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Vulpera are fox-humanoids, but foxes themselves don't exist there. Catform being fox-form is a ridiculous enough concept as it is, but then one realizes that foxes don't exist in Zandalar... so what are they basing it off of? lol.

    I mean, I get that it was tongue in cheek, but I'm just sayin'.

    And naturally, I agree with the first bit. It's what I was saying.
    They have to have ancestors. Just have them go full Fennec. That would probably be a lot easier for them to pull off than a cat.

    And if the Zandalari can have a reptile cat form, i don't really see the problem with just having a different mammal as a base.

  19. #59
    Vulpera forms:
    Tank=Honey Badger
    DPS melee=Tasmanian Devil or wolverine
    DPS range=Pigeon
    Resto=Baby Groot

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    This is why we can't have nice things. Blizzard is so pressured to make everything "even".
    Yeah, they're so pressured to make things even, that is why they're so worried about balancing those racials when Horde absolutely dominates the raid scene...you know, one of those things they like to focus on?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    I think being almost wiped out by nazi paladins would make them stay away from the light.
    Yup...and the main reason they got Priest was because of the Shadowmoon Clan.
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