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  1. #41
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    I'm an innocent person, so obviously no. But we should start with the worst criminals. I suggest using a pedophile with dozens of victims first to see if it works. We may also start with serial killers. Doesn't really matter. Progress requires sacrifice. It's regrettable that some will be irreparably damaged by what I proposed by that is the price of fucking progress. I'm pretty sure Iraqi Freedom carried plenty of collateral damage but it was absolutely fucking worth it to liberate an entire country from a tyrant. Good think bleeding hearts are not in charge of our criminal justice system and military. Tough strong men are in charge and they will do what needs to be done.

    Besides, we are not doing this to any ordinary criminal, we want to do this to monsters to see if we can fix them.

    I'm a utilitarian, the greater good is all that I care about.
    So a pedophile who did or did not actually abuse anyone? And you have serial killers second? Also an enormous amount of people plea guilty and later are found innocent. Simply for fear of losing cases when they get a public defender and can’t afford a lawyer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    Open the door for this and how long before the list of crimes gets expanded? How long before you get some sort of despot, to expands it to include those who criticise the government, because it destabilises the country or whatever justification they might use? Maybe it never happens, but if you open that door then you open the door to such a possibility.
    Remember the “force sterilize the poor” that became “sterilize the blacks”

  2. #42
    Over 9000! Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    I don't believe this would work. But mayyyybe with future tech in 300 years it will.
    For now, the best would probably be longer jail time and harsher penalties
    I doubt genetic editing is going to take 300 years. I give it 10 maybe 25 years from now for us to be able to edit genes. The question is, can we edit cells within the human body or do we need to remove them to edit them and then insert them back in?

  3. #43
    The lengths one will go to justify the forced control of other humans. This is certainly a disturbing form of slavery.
    "It doesn't matter if you believe me or not but common sense doesn't really work here. You're mad, I'm mad. We're all MAD here."

  4. #44
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saucexorzski View Post
    The lengths one will go to justify the forced control of other humans. This is certainly a disturbing form of slavery.
    I think the best part is the part where he doesn't think it'll get abused.

  5. #45
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Ireland has this fantastic revolving door justice system where violent criminals with 250+ convictions are walking about free, while people not paying their TV license can get jail time.

    Doing us wonders!
    Got something to back this up?

  6. #46
    Right now you have a prison system in your country run to provide a profit and segregate a portion of your population, and you think it's a good idea to introduce hard brainwashing into the mix?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    I want to be safe. We come up with these ideas through a technocratic thinking process.
    Just execute the worst of the worst... no recidivism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  8. #48
    The Insane Revi's Avatar
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    The way you use the word "reprogram" is the same way sci-fi writers use their future tech. With no good explanation of how to works, making it do whatever is needed to fill the plot holes.

    Even if this magical tech came to be, it sounds pretty dystopian.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Got something to back this up?
    By reading the news here?

    Here's one such example;

    200+ convictions before finally getting jailed, AFTER causing severe brain damage to a law student, driving DUI:

    LINK

    411 Jailed for not paying TV license;

    LINK
    Last edited by Daedius; 2019-10-15 at 04:08 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    I agree, they have human rights, after they become forcibly humanized, but not before.



    We are forcing them to stop being monsters, I don't think what we are advocating is inhumane. Keeping them in the subhuman monsterous state even in prison indefinately is dangerous, they victimize each other or put the prison employees in harms way. There is no alternative solution than what I advocate for: Which is their prison sentence + consensual mandated reprogramming of their mind in some way.




    They have the right to be rehabilitated and humane prison conditions, these are the rights of the subhuman, as all non-human but highly sentient animals like Chimps are entitled to. That's it. If they want all the rights that come with being human, they must become human first.



    Put in more laws to prevent it from being used on lesser crimes. Perhaps a statue of some kind that only those at the time of offense must be minimum 16 years of age. Must be a very serious violent felony. The 8th amendment should prevent it from being used on lesser crimes or offenders who are too young (like 11 year olds at time of offense) since this extreme form of rehabilitation would be considered cruel if applied to a lesser crime.



    It's different when we do it. You seriously can't be comparing what we advocate for to rape...


    Either way, people who are victims of these crimes probably wouldn't have any sympathy to the perpetrators, they absolutely deserve the clockwork orange treatment. If they refused, they most be manipulated into consenting.

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    The US constitution does. There is a reason we don't lock people up before they commit crimes. This technique as a mandated tool will only be authorized for the worst offenders.
    This is honestly one of the more disgusting things I've seen on this forum and I've been here for years. The moment someone starts to view anyone as subhuman, regardless of whatever they did, they are no better then the Nazis, than the white supremacists, or any other group of people that has no issue at viewing some other human being as an animal as that is what those groups did. It would be better to execute someone then forcefully subjugate them to what amounts to brainwashing. Don't get me wrong, those who have committed violent crimes or is a habitual criminal should be locked away, or in the case of crimes taken to the extreme(like a serial rapist, serial child sex molestation or any other crime that is of such depravity that there is no way for the person to be rehabilitated), execution.

    These people who think this way are no better then those who abuse animals and turn into serial killers as they view anything lesser than themselves as something that can be killed or forcefully harmed without any empathy towards their victims.

    BTW, the US constitution also doesn't allow for inhuman punishment and forceful brainwashing definitely counts as that. You need to read up on the eighth amendment for that.

  11. #51
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    By reading the news here?

    Here's one such example;

    200+ convictions before finally getting jailed, AFTER causing severe brain damage to a law student, driving DUI:

    LINK

    411 Jailed for not paying TV license;

    LINK
    So from your links it sounds like the guy isn’t walking around free and he didn’t have 200+ offences before being jailed as he was in jail a month before this happened.

    He was in jail for past offences got out committed another offence and got 8 years. His past offences also seem to vary greatly but he DID serve jail time before this hit and run.

    The second cases are also about not paying a court ordered fine and they proabbly got way less time then the first guy.

    Sounds no different then literally any other country with a functional legal system.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    This is honestly one of the more disgusting things I've seen on this forum and I've been here for years. The moment someone starts to view anyone as subhuman, regardless of whatever they did, they are no better then the Nazis, than the white supremacists, or any other group of people that has no issue at viewing some other human being as an animal as that is what those groups did. It would be better to execute someone then forcefully subjugate them to what amounts to brainwashing. Don't get me wrong, those who have committed violent crimes or is a habitual criminal should be locked away, or in the case of crimes taken to the extreme(like a serial rapist, serial child sex molestation or any other crime that is of such depravity that there is no way for the person to be rehabilitated), execution.

    These people who think this way are no better then those who abuse animals and turn into serial killers as they view anything lesser than themselves as something that can be killed or forcefully harmed without any empathy towards their victims.

    BTW, the US constitution also doesn't allow for inhuman punishment and forceful brainwashing definitely counts as that. You need to read up on the eighth amendment for that.
    There is a fundamental fucking difference between calling a child rapist or a serial killer subhuman and calling say, transgenders, gays, blacks, polish, Irish people subhuman. One is an understandable reaction to a crime, the other is just straight up hate that should not be tolerated.

    I will let you try to figure out the difference. I can straight up tell you that if I were a victim of child rape, or if someone killed one of my family members, I'd love to see them forcibly reprogrammed against their will. This isn't out of retribution, this is out of the desire of justice. You damage or kill one of us, we will change you whether you like it or not. The 8th amendment is based on whether something is cruel or unusual. And yes sometimes it depends on the crime. For example the death penalty as ruled by the Supreme Court only allows death penalty for crimes involving murder. I just don't see how strapping a child rapist or serial killer in to forcibly perform whatever mental reconditioning needed as inhumane. Hell I would like to watch this subhuman vile scum struggle for his supposed "right" to remain a monster.

    Bleeding heart liberals can complain all they want, but it is strong men who will make the hard decisions. I will be one of those strong persons who will do what is needed to be done. I will not care of bleeding heart liberals consider me just as bad as the subhuman I use it on. Do not expect you to retain your right to remain as you are if you commit crimes of such depravity. We will mold your personality to what we need it to be. If it shall be done by force, so be it. The Supreme Court will affirm us.
    Last edited by Mythic-RaidLead; 2019-10-15 at 06:19 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    There is a fundamental fucking difference between calling a child rapist or a serial killer subhuman and calling say, transgenders, gays, blacks, polish, Irish people subhuman. One is an understandable reaction to a crime, the other is just straight up hate that should not be tolerated.

    I will let you try to figure out the difference. I can straight up tell you that if I were a victim of child rape, or if someone killed one of my family members, I'd love to see them forcibly reprogrammed against their will. This isn't out of retribution, this is out of the desire of justice. You damage or kill one of us, we will change you whether you like it or not. The 8th amendment is based on whether something is cruel or unusual. And yes sometimes it depends on the crime. For example the death penalty as ruled by the Supreme Court only allows death penalty for crimes involving murder. I just don't see how strapping a child rapist or serial killer in to forcibly perform whatever mental reconditioning needed as inhumane. Hell I would like to watch this subhuman vile scum struggle for his supposed "right" to remain a monster.

    Bleeding heart liberals can complain all they want, but it is strong men who will make the hard decisions. I will be one of those strong persons who will do what is needed to be done. I will not care of bleeding heart liberals consider me just as bad as the subhuman I use it on. Do not expect you to retain your right to remain as you are if you commit crimes of such depravity. We will mold your personality to what we need it to be. If it shall be done by force, so be it. The Supreme Court will affirm us.
    So, should this also include ethno-nationalists, race supremacists or any other group that considers others subhuman as rapists, child molesters and murders all consider their victims less than human?

    Because this is where the problem of forceful brainwashing becomes an issue. Who decides what is considered bad enough. The next question is, can you prove that it will never be misused? That it will never be used to forcefully remove differencing political thought or anything that wouldn't be considered "proper thought"?

    On the subject of capital punishment, yes, the Supreme Court has said it is constitutional, however, they also stated that the eighth amendment forbids cruel and unusual punishment in capital punishment. They also ruled that capital punishment is unconstitutional in cases where a child was raped and the child did not die and death was not intended(Kennedy v. Louisiana, 554 U.S. 407 (2008)).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    By reading the news here?

    Here's one such example;

    200+ convictions before finally getting jailed, AFTER causing severe brain damage to a law student, driving DUI:

    LINK

    411 Jailed for not paying TV license;

    LINK
    When it comes to driving offenses, do what we do in Ohio. First time they take your license, if you are caught again with a suspended license, they may immobilize your car. If they catch you a third time during a suspension, they take your car and then sell it.
    Last edited by gondrin; 2019-10-15 at 06:52 PM.

  14. #54
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    By reading the news here?

    Here's one such example;

    200+ convictions before finally getting jailed, AFTER causing severe brain damage to a law student, driving DUI:

    LINK
    From the article you linked:
    He was on a 25-year driving ban at the time and had been released from prison a month earlier.
    He had been in prison. He got out because he served that penalty. How he got the car I don't know, I didn't read after that.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    I doubt genetic editing is going to take 300 years. I give it 10 maybe 25 years from now for us to be able to edit genes. The question is, can we edit cells within the human body or do we need to remove them to edit them and then insert them back in?
    Using it on plants is still pretty new concept. What makes you think we are ready to target a specific gene that ONLY effects their murderous traits? Do you have any idea how many years of research it would take to study and do tests on humans to get a conclusion the government would sign off on it?

  16. #56
    People that come up with these not-so-original ideas need to have them applied to themselves first.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    So, should this also include ethno-nationalists, race supremacists or any other group that considers others subhuman as rapists, child molesters and murders all consider their victims less than human?

    Because this is where the problem of forceful brainwashing becomes an issue. Who decides what is considered bad enough. The next question is, can you prove that it will never be misused? That it will never be used to forcefully remove differencing political thought or anything that wouldn't be considered "proper thought"?

    On the subject of capital punishment, yes, the Supreme Court has said it is constitutional, however, they also stated that the eighth amendment forbids cruel and unusual punishment in capital punishment. They also ruled that capital punishment is unconstitutional in cases where a child was raped and the child did not die and death was not intended(Kennedy v. Louisiana, 554 U.S. 407 (2008)).
    That's with the way too generous of an assumption that it isn't precisely the idea behind it. Personally, I think there's little too much talk of untermensch and sieg heil between the lines in his writing to assume that. Assuming the worst is most likely the closest to the true intent behind the proposal, than anything else.

  18. #58
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    I doubt genetic editing is going to take 300 years. I give it 10 maybe 25 years from now for us to be able to edit genes. The question is, can we edit cells within the human body or do we need to remove them to edit them and then insert them back in?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Using it on plants is still pretty new concept. What makes you think we are ready to target a specific gene that ONLY effects their murderous traits? Do you have any idea how many years of research it would take to study and do tests on humans to get a conclusion the government would sign off on it?

    Genes can't matter when it comes to the issues the OP was talking about though. Things like non-violence are matter of getting the right memes into their heads, which you can't program genes to insert cultural values.
    -------
    Fun fact of the month:
    Anything that is not specifically forbidden by a law of nature is achievable given the right knowledge.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Genes can't matter when it comes to the issues the OP was talking about though. Things like non-violence are matter of getting the right memes into their heads, which you can't program genes to insert cultural values.
    PogChamp Fix the world by filling people's heads with memes! POGGERS

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    So from your links it sounds like the guy isn’t walking around free and he didn’t have 200+ offences before being jailed as he was in jail a month before this happened.

    He was in jail for past offences got out committed another offence and got 8 years. His past offences also seem to vary greatly but he DID serve jail time before this hit and run.

    The second cases are also about not paying a court ordered fine and they proabbly got way less time then the first guy.

    Sounds no different then literally any other country with a functional legal system.
    People continuously commit crime not being held while awaiting their trials, which often have a slap on the wrist sentencings (you get sick of the "rough/poor/disadvantaged background" defence for leniency) so these criminals got nothing to fear.

    Also the fact there's a serious lack of prisons here, contributing to people not getting their deserved jail time.

    https://www.extra.ie/2019/02/10/news...st-5-years/amp

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/greg...stem-1.1161989

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