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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    The only proven method of achieving zero recidivism is the death penalty.
    Reminds me of that one planet in Star Trek where all crimes are punished with death.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Reminds me of that one planet in Star Trek where all crimes are punished with death.
    Missed opportunity to get rid of Wesley for good.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    I'm an innocent person, so obviously no.
    That's exactly what a guilty person would say!

    Test subject it is.

  4. #84
    As I'm in a position of moral authority I can honestly attest that the OP isn't innocent, and methods of control should be implanted.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    Ok, there we go, a good objection worth thinking about. I will ignore all the nonsensible "This violates human rights" arguments (it doesn't unless you can point to me a document that it would). And pretty much all my family members and co workers certainly see what I advocate for as pure justice. We just want those who cause harm to change with or without consent, like why is this so difficult to understand?

    I'm not entirely sure how it would be drafted, but the supreme court may decide. Once it's decided, that will become a hard wall that cannot be breached. So the runaway slope ends there. We will outline certain crimes of great depravity that will be rehabiliated aka punished in this way without the need to receive an informed consent from the condemned. And pass certain legal restrictions to prevent them from growing the list. We probably should take this lesson learned from the ballooning (SOR) sex offenders registry and make sure that the list does not balloon out to minor offenses. And there are several ways to do so:

    1) This form of forced rehabilitation is considered a form of punishment in law. Unlike the SOR which has been ruled to not be punishment which subsequently lead to it being ballooned out beyond what it was originally intended for.

    2) Supreme court, I believe forced mental reprogramming should not be seen as a light punishment, but it shouldn't be seen as severe as a life sentence or death penalty since the convicted is still conscious and abled mind and abled body. We need to be able to include all crimes of depravity, but we must be careful not to extend it beyond that. For example, forced reprogramming for some random stranger in the bar grabbing my penis should not suffice, but if he held me down and started raping me, or straight up shot me, yes, it should be punishable by forced reprogramming.

    3) Forcible reprogramming will be strictly linked to fixing ONLY the part of the monster's personality that keeps them subhuman. If the subhuman also happens to be gay, trans, non-trans, straight, a particular interest in a hobbies, those things are not to be messed around with.
    4) Upon the sentence, they will immediately be transferred to a medical area (part of the prison IDK) and have whatever chips, stuff to reprogram their thinking process modified. They will be heavily strapped in to prevent resistance. Once the procedure is finished, they will begin their prison sentence.

    As far as whether this is fair or not. Well, did their victims get fair treatment? See why I'm not concerned about their "human rights"?
    And yet, you might have forgotten that the Supreme Court ruled that slavery was completely constitutional until it wasn't anymore. Just because something is considered illegal and unconstitutional wont stop various agencies from doing said thing. For history, take a look at the Tuskegee Experiments.

    I'm going to ask you a simple question, would you subject you, your family, your children or your loved ones to what you are proposing? I'm not asking if you are guilty, I'm not asking anything other than the question. What if any of those were innocent, you knew they were innocent and yet were found guilty and forced to have forced mind reprogramming? Would you be willing to subject anyone you love, your family, your children or even yourself to your punishment?

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    And yet, you might have forgotten that the Supreme Court ruled that slavery was completely constitutional until it wasn't anymore. Just because something is considered illegal and unconstitutional wont stop various agencies from doing said thing. For history, take a look at the Tuskegee Experiments.

    I'm going to ask you a simple question, would you subject you, your family, your children or your loved ones to what you are proposing? I'm not asking if you are guilty, I'm not asking anything other than the question. What if any of those were innocent, you knew they were innocent and yet were found guilty and forced to have forced mind reprogramming? Would you be willing to subject anyone you love, your family, your children or even yourself to your punishment?
    Tell you what, if I, or anyone else commit such a horrific crime, absolutely we should be reprogrammed. Stop acting like it's some sort of horrific thing, we are literally just trying to modify someone so that the monstrous element of their personality is completely gone. For example while they would be just as physically and mentally abled as before, they will no longer have ANY willingness to... for example to rape another person whatsoever. OTHER ELEMENTS OF THEIR PERSONALITIES ARE UNTOUCHED.

    So you answer your question, if I end up committing some of the crimes I so strongly condemn... PLEASE.. FORCIBLY REPROGRAM ME. Make me human again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    You don't stop being human after you commit crimes no matter how much idiots would love to confince themselves otherwise.
    Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree here.
    Well, it seems we do see eye-to-eye here.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    Tell you what, if I, or anyone else commit such a horrific crime, absolutely we should be reprogrammed.
    Or are falsely imprisoned as many death row inmates are without even counting those sentenced to life.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Or are falsely imprisoned as many death row inmates are without even counting those sentenced to life.
    Justice isn't perfect, but if we ever get to the point when we can ethically and precisely reprogram the thoughts of a person, it's not hard to imagine it will be possible to read the memories and use that as evidence to determine innocence/guilt. Still won't be perfect, false memories exist, but this plus DNA will reduce wrongful convictions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I genuinely question an inmates guilty of crimes of depravity commitment to rehabilitation if they refuse the medical procedure. They are essentially making a statement that they are not interested in improving themselves in any meaningful way, and therefore should be harshly treated. But I believe if forcible reprogramming is ruled illegal, we can give them another option:

    At the end of the sentence or at the date of parole, they must choose:

    Life institutionalization.
    or
    Reprogramming

    This way, it's a form of consent. So maybe this will satisfy all the liberal organizations like the ACLU and the liberals here.
    I consider offering them a choice as an inconvenience and I'd rather just cut the bullshit and do what needs to be done with their personalities and minds. But sadly we live in a world that thinks such evil people have more rights than they are actually entitled to.
    Last edited by Mythic-RaidLead; 2019-10-16 at 12:00 AM.

  10. #90
    Fuck that...Provide the Death Penalty as an option and I can almost guarantee that would be chosen.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Genes can't matter when it comes to the issues the OP was talking about though. Things like non-violence are matter of getting the right memes into their heads, which you can't program genes to insert cultural values.
    This is the whole nature vs nurture debate. I'm more of a nature side of things, and believe that no amount of nurture will keep people from harming others. Nurture might work temporarily, but eventually people give in to their desires, which maybe baked into our genes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Using it on plants is still pretty new concept. What makes you think we are ready to target a specific gene that ONLY effects their murderous traits? Do you have any idea how many years of research it would take to study and do tests on humans to get a conclusion the government would sign off on it?
    Kinda been done already. Look up a woman named Liz Parrish who edited some of her genes to prove that her companies gene therapy is effective and safe. It's also not done in the USA because of these restrictions. The technology used in here isn't new and wouldn't be enough to do what I'm proposing.

    Last edited by Vash The Stampede; 2019-10-18 at 02:11 AM.

  12. #92
    A better understanding of mental illnesses and better treatments would be a good start. Most people who commit those things have something seriously wrong with them. Can you put the empathy that sociopaths lack in a pill? Maybe! It'd certainly be more effective than just dumping people in jail and ruining their lives in such a way that prevents them getting a normal job to make money legally, so then the inevitable happens of them taking illegal approaches, landing them back in jail, and so on.

    First on the list of people to treat for mental illness is whatever brain damaged sod thought that was a good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    A better understanding of mental illnesses and better treatments would be a good start. Most people who commit those things have something seriously wrong with them. Can you put the empathy that sociopaths lack in a pill? Maybe! It'd certainly be more effective than just dumping people in jail and ruining their lives in such a way that prevents them getting a normal job to make money legally, so then the inevitable happens of them taking illegal approaches, landing them back in jail, and so on.

    First on the list of people to treat for mental illness is whatever brain damaged sod thought that was a good idea.
    Finally, an intelligent comment.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    Justice isn't perfect, but if we ever get to the point when we can ethically and precisely reprogram the thoughts of a person, it's not hard to imagine it will be possible to read the memories and use that as evidence to determine innocence/guilt. Still won't be perfect, false memories exist, but this plus DNA will reduce wrongful convictions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I genuinely question an inmates guilty of crimes of depravity commitment to rehabilitation if they refuse the medical procedure. They are essentially making a statement that they are not interested in improving themselves in any meaningful way, and therefore should be harshly treated. But I believe if forcible reprogramming is ruled illegal, we can give them another option:

    At the end of the sentence or at the date of parole, they must choose:

    Life institutionalization.
    or
    Reprogramming

    This way, it's a form of consent. So maybe this will satisfy all the liberal organizations like the ACLU and the liberals here.
    I consider offering them a choice as an inconvenience and I'd rather just cut the bullshit and do what needs to be done with their personalities and minds. But sadly we live in a world that thinks such evil people have more rights than they are actually entitled to.
    Consent under duress is not consent. If you consider it consent, rape is no longer a crime

  15. #95
    You dont factor in corruption. Allowing the government to lobotomize humans to stop crime. Ok well imagine the worst person in charge as supreme leader using that to promote their personal goals.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  16. #96
    No thanks, our minds are the last thing the government/society/corporations can't violate and rewrite to their own needs at this point, and I'd like to keep it that way.

    I'd honestly hope for our society and civilization to collapse before we get to the point of such dystopian practices.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    Justice isn't perfect, but if we ever get to the point when we can ethically and precisely reprogram the thoughts of a person, it's not hard to imagine it will be possible to read the memories and use that as evidence to determine innocence/guilt. Still won't be perfect, false memories exist, but this plus DNA will reduce wrongful convictions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I genuinely question an inmates guilty of crimes of depravity commitment to rehabilitation if they refuse the medical procedure. They are essentially making a statement that they are not interested in improving themselves in any meaningful way, and therefore should be harshly treated. But I believe if forcible reprogramming is ruled illegal, we can give them another option:

    At the end of the sentence or at the date of parole, they must choose:

    Life institutionalization.
    or
    Reprogramming

    This way, it's a form of consent. So maybe this will satisfy all the liberal organizations like the ACLU and the liberals here.
    I consider offering them a choice as an inconvenience and I'd rather just cut the bullshit and do what needs to be done with their personalities and minds. But sadly we live in a world that thinks such evil people have more rights than they are actually entitled to.
    following your "logic" and scifi-fanfic, shouldnt EVERYONE get this treatment at birth?
    i mean if you actually can be so precise with this mind-fuck that you can take away ONLY the need to rape, molest, murder, etc. shouldnt everyone get regular treatments?

    imagine once a year you go to your local mindfuck-clinic to get those "undesirable traits" removed from your brain, no side effects. why wait for someone to commit a crime?
    Last edited by lagiacrux; 2019-10-16 at 02:26 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    Justice isn't perfect, but if we ever get to the point when we can ethically and precisely reprogram the thoughts of a person, it's not hard to imagine it will be possible to read the memories and use that as evidence to determine innocence/guilt. Still won't be perfect, false memories exist, but this plus DNA will reduce wrongful convictions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I genuinely question an inmates guilty of crimes of depravity commitment to rehabilitation if they refuse the medical procedure. They are essentially making a statement that they are not interested in improving themselves in any meaningful way, and therefore should be harshly treated. But I believe if forcible reprogramming is ruled illegal, we can give them another option:

    At the end of the sentence or at the date of parole, they must choose:

    Life institutionalization.
    or
    Reprogramming

    This way, it's a form of consent. So maybe this will satisfy all the liberal organizations like the ACLU and the liberals here.
    I consider offering them a choice as an inconvenience and I'd rather just cut the bullshit and do what needs to be done with their personalities and minds. But sadly we live in a world that thinks such evil people have more rights than they are actually entitled to.
    So, the use of your plan against someone who is actually innocent is inevitable. That would make you the horrible person, and the one who should be forced to undergo the testing simply by implementing this plan.

    Statistically, anyone who is part of this program, but also be targeted by it.

    Statistical inevitabilities are a real bastard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic-RaidLead View Post
    Finally, an intelligent comment.
    So, you agree that you should be the first to undergo that treatment... good to know.

  19. #99
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    Shit, just execute them, that's somehow less monstrous than what you're suggesting.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, the use of your plan against someone who is actually innocent is inevitable. That would make you the horrible person, and the one who should be forced to undergo the testing simply by implementing this plan.

    Statistically, anyone who is part of this program, but also be targeted by it.

    Statistical inevitabilities are a real bastard.
    So would that make anyone who advocates for the death penalty a horrible person? Your logic is flawed.


    So, you agree that you should be the first to undergo that treatment... good to know.
    No, I want to experiment on the worst of the worst first. When it becomes absolutely safe, than I might try self modification with it. Ultimately we will test first on animals, than on the worst prisoners. I will use it once I know it's safe enough and probably for different things. I am a very moral person so I don't think I need moral enhancements that say... rapists, grievous assaulters and murderers do.

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