Why economy is so bad at bfa?

[Shakana]

It would appear that the OP seems to think there is no money in AH flipping anymore because boosts ruined the AH

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Well I'd hope they don't take them down because I enjoy selling keys.

There far more unbalanced issues in WoW than selling keys, AOTC and mythic kills. You can also just add the chat spam to your ignore list.

I understand the boosters, i don't mind them to the point i want boosters extinguished, i just think it's overall too much spread like a plague of economy, thats all. You have all the right to make gold in what form you wish. And if you enjoy doing m+ and selling it, better.

[kaminaris]

I understand the boosters, i don't mind them to the point i want boosters extinguished, i just think it's overall too much spread like a plague of economy, thats all. You have all the right to make gold in what form you wish. And if you enjoy doing m+ and selling it, better.

No man, economy of boosts and mats regulates itself. By https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

People can spam all they want, if there is nobody willing to pay the price, boost will not sell or they will be forced to lower the price.
On my realm boosts are like 80-150k divided by 4 people = 20-~40, which means they get roughly that amount per hour.
Flipping AH makes me 100k at least in half of that time. And you gotta know when to buy, what to buy and when to sell.

The only method that broke economy was army of alts in wod/legion. Because it wasn't regulated by anything and required very little time spent.

[nicbizz]

I understand the boosters, i don't mind them to the point i want boosters extinguished, i just think it's overall too much spread like a plague of economy, thats all. You have all the right to make gold in what form you wish. And if you enjoy doing m+ and selling it, better.

You're pointing fingers at the wrong people. It's the BOOSTEES willing to pay those ridiculous prices that are at fault. If someone is willing to pay 300k, why charge less? Supply and demand.

This is all temporary though , and will moderate itself eventually. We're in a transition period between easy gold (WoD/Legion) and deflation (BfA), so yes, the gold gets funneled to the top. I have a few mates who made millions in Legion, and blew most of it on boosts. They're flat broke now, so no more boosting. Those boosters blowing gold cap on BMAH? That'll stop too once customers can't afford / balk at paying primo for their services. Give it another expansion or two.

[Relapses]

The only method that broke economy was army of alts in wod/legion. Because it wasn't regulated by anything and required very little time spent.

Holy shit. I actually agree with you here. (For the record, WoD was worse than Legion but not by much.) The "economy" of BfA is largely the result of Blizzard allowing players to complete a Facebook mini-game for uncapped rewards. Because this mini-game isn't present this expansion, gold has increased in value for the first time since MoP. It's good that it's finally working itself out though the increased prevalence of boosting is an annoying side effect.

[Imurbandaid]

I used my alts in WoD and Legion to make a lot of gold. (As well as follower with 150g per WQ on main with table missions 200% on main and alt as well etc, etc.) That all dried up for me. I was never one for much money prior to those expansions (maybe first time I made good gold was flasks in cata and using 7 alts to sell valor boots the first week of dragon soul etc. Without the mission table gold I can't afford to buy stuff like I did. If i need a flask I go get the herbs, if I need the cooking mats I go get them. Yea, when blizzard deletes the casual players ability to get a decent amount of gold they can no longer afford to buy the shit and gotta run out and herb/fish/mine it themselves quick. I lost like 1mil gold in beginning of BfA and got dried up around 800k the first couple months before I realized I gotta start getting stuff myself instead of going the easy route and buying it. Even without buying I sit around 760k only because I try so hard to hang on to it for dear life if I ever want a token or something. No way to make gold if you dont got the time to go out and make it on top of doing your daily chores.

[kaminaris]

Holy shit. I actually agree with you here. (For the record, WoD was worse than Legion but not by much.) The "economy" of BfA is largely the result of Blizzard allowing players to complete a Facebook mini-game for uncapped rewards. Because this mini-game isn't present this expansion, gold has increased in value for the first time since MoP. It's good that it's finally working itself out though the increased prevalence of boosting is an annoying side effect.

No that has nothing to do with boosts. Boost being more popular is effect of higher participation in M+ and titan residuum. Basically more people want boosts because there is a bigger gain than in Legion. It's also probably more interesting in legion.

[Relapses]

No that has nothing to do with boosts. Boost being more popular is effect of higher participation in M+ and titan residuum. Basically more people want boosts because there is a bigger gain than in Legion. It's also probably more interesting in legion.

Man, you just had to disagree with me didn't you? I wouldn't say it has "nothing" to do with boosting because as others have mentioned, this market has been consolidated to the point where only the larger boosting organizations can afford to do it. I doubt this would have been possible if all the nonsense gold generated in WoD/Legion hadn't existed.

/shrug

[callipygoustp]

Hate how much trade skills have been gutted. Horrible.

[Shakana]

Man, you just had to disagree with me didn't you? I wouldn't say it has "nothing" to do with boosting because as others have mentioned, this market has been consolidated to the point where only the larger boosting organizations can afford to do it. I doubt this would have been possible if all the nonsense gold generated in WoD/Legion hadn't existed.

/shrug

Honestly a lot of people and boosters or people that get boosted by them, will feel attacked with this statement i have been making, they can't see that is a economy that won't go anywhere, besides personal gains, and that it doesn't flow. They blow their gold everywhere that is not AH for cosmetics. They collect a huge amount of gold that is not going to be used for buying my stuff on AH for example. But maybe they will buy that Feldrake on AH. And the person that got the gold from Feldrake will blow on BMAH and STILL not buy my stuff. And the cycle continues.

The "getting but not spending" cycle is preposterous for the future economy. It's like irl, if the money doesn't flow, if it's concentrated in rich and not on the rest, then you will have some bad times. If you spent the last money to open a market of your own and it goes wrong, in a bankruptcy way, then you need to go work after as everyone else.

Which is the case in game, that if this economy is ruled by boosters, everyone needs to be a booster some day. That is the equal job analogy i made about "you need to go work after as everyone else".

Just the fact i have 100 items on AH, and only some (10) gets sold in a daily basis, but they spend a gold cap on a BMAH mount just shows me that the gold doesn't flow. And me not being a booster receive answers as "start boosting, simple."

It's also a problem that many things you want to buy nowadays is basically just mounts and cosmetics. Blizzard has even put many things as soulbound on professions. Before you had way more alternatives of stuff that was needed and that people were willing to pay for.
It's also their fault we don't have good professions, and some are just awful to be picked up. And only with your army of alts, you will pick it up, cause you don't feel the necessity of having chars with the same professions as others with herb and alchemy all the time, or inscription.

And it's even their fault that they have put a AH mount for 5M, so that people would buy wowtokens to get there faster. Or druids making more druids to farm on multiboxing herbs that they get, that when you see a herb, you see the herb disappearing after all the multiboxers loot it, and the more chars people play with, more money they get from all those extra accounts.

The game has little love put into it. The effort of making the game and economy more engaging it's so little. Everything takes opportunity of someone that doesn't boost or wants to buy wowtkens to sell on AH, or has no multiboxing losing for those who have.
I have my own personal life and i would like to spend my time on game normally gathering my stuff to sell on AH, and i also would like to not pay for multiboxing, i already do enough by paying my sub. Have other interests rather than doing extreme things in game, that is not in my position or desire to do, to reach out what could be achieved with in game professions and other stuff. I don't want to spend my irl time to others, my time is precious, i don't want to go boost people or spend time with a community that sells boosts.

Or competing with a druid to catch my herbs. The gold they made in the beginning of bfa with anchor weeds, imagine, just imagine, when one person gets x6 alone from anchor weed, join a army of druid multiboxing where the herb disappears after all the multiboxers loot it, 6+6+6+6+6+6 = 36 anchor weeds from just one herb alone, when you alone have sit on your bag just 6 anchor weed that you somehow were able to herb after that huge bulldoze that the druid made in that area of disappearing herbs and that despawns when you get there.

Going to work, see ya later mates.

[kaminaris]

Man, you just had to disagree with me didn't you? I wouldn't say it has "nothing" to do with boosting because as others have mentioned, this market has been consolidated to the point where only the larger boosting organizations can afford to do it. I doubt this would have been possible if all the nonsense gold generated in WoD/Legion hadn't existed.

/shrug

Because I been in this business for quite some time and I know people who does boosts on weekly basis. Boosts been there since the beginning and it was possible in Legion and previous expansion (tho more as mythic raids). Basically M+ boosts in legion were more expensive. Just about 50-100% more expensive. I remember something around 300K. Now it is 100-200K. They are slightly more popular now because there is more gain to it

I even know how it works for people doing boosts for real money all day long just as if it was a job.

On the other hand mythic raid boosts got more expensive. I remember we took ~1M in WoD for archimonde without mount and 4M with mount. In legion killing Argus was priced at similar ~1M without mount. And now for mythic jaina it was (before new raid came in) was whooping 4M - probably because of forced personal loot.

[Marrilaife]

I wouldn't say it has "nothing" to do with boosting because as others have mentioned, this market has been consolidated to the point where only the larger boosting organizations can afford to do it. I doubt this would have been possible if all the nonsense gold generated in WoD/Legion hadn't existed.

On the contrary, WOD / Legion gold allowed some casuals to buy boosts, in BFA vast majority of boost buyers are people who buy gold for $$$. That's why only the biggest fish stay in the pond, because there are less buyers. There are lots of people spamming, but that doesn't mean they're getting buyers. Actually if they had buyers they'd be out there boosting m+ / mechagon / w/e else instead of sitting in trade and spamming.

As a person that played in a guild that boosted I felt a big dropoff in buyers from Legion where we would often have 15 boosters 15 buyers for heroic clear and often had to double run the last boss for curve as we couldn't slot everyone in, to 2-5 buyers per run in BFA, often trying to delay their payments because "the token hasn't sold yet".

I'm neither proud nor ashamed of boosting because with the ridiculousness of augment runes and pots and barely any other ways to get income, it felt like a necessary evil for raiders to boost, otherwise you would have to either buy gold or spend more hours farming than actually raiding, on top of all the hours sank in AP farm and whatnot.

In Legion I had 3 streams of income: boosts, AH and missions. And I was generously spending it on various stuff. In BFA it felt like falling into 1930's crisis, so I stopped spending. The health of the economy relies on people actually willing to spend their gold and trading. If nobody is interested in buying stuff, there's no economy. People going back to farm their own herbs and being "self sufficient" feels like going from monetary economy back into stone age.

Doesn't help that Blizzard made half of the professions revolve around what kind of BOP gear it can make for the owner, that's like having to buy a brewery so you can drink a beer. I miss MOP / WOD armor crafting professions where you had limited, but at least existing, BOE pieces you could craft (with a cooldown) and they were competing with raid gear, so there was market for them.

[kaminaris]

On the contrary, WOD / Legion gold allowed some casuals to buy boosts, in BFA vast majority of boost buyers are people who buy gold for $$$. That's why only the biggest fish stay in the pond, because there are less buyers. There are lots of people spamming, but that doesn't mean they're getting buyers. Actually if they had buyers they'd be out there boosting m+ / mechagon / w/e else instead of sitting in trade and spamming.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Most casuals have 1-3 alts. And they weren't spamming missions all day long. For most casual players nothing has changed, except boost became cheaper.

As a person that played in a guild that boosted I felt a big dropoff in buyers from Legion where we would often have 15 boosters 15 buyers for heroic clear and often had to double run the last boss for curve as we couldn't slot everyone in, to 2-5 buyers per run in BFA, often trying to delay their payments because "the token hasn't sold yet".

Raids did drop in boosts. M+ on the other hand has higher demand.

I'm neither proud nor ashamed of boosting because with the ridiculousness of augment runes and pots and barely any other ways to get income, it felt like a necessary evil for raiders to boost, otherwise you would have to either buy gold or spend more hours farming than actually raiding, on top of all the hours sank in AP farm and whatnot.

Oh don't dramatize. All you need to do is like 1 hour per week to get all consumables.

In Legion I had 3 streams of income: boosts, AH and missions. And I was generously spending it on various stuff. In BFA it felt like falling into 1930's crisis, so I stopped spending. The health of the economy relies on people actually willing to spend their gold and trading. If nobody is interested in buying stuff, there's no economy. People going back to farm their own herbs and being "self sufficient" feels like going from monetary economy back into stone age.

That is completely wrong. In Legion and WoD gold meant nothing and everyone had everything because consumables were worthless. It was not even worth farming anything. It was venezuela level of economy failure.

Doesn't help that Blizzard made half of the professions revolve around what kind of BOP gear it can make for the owner, that's like having to buy a brewery so you can drink a beer. I miss MOP / WOD armor crafting professions where you had limited, but at least existing, BOE pieces you could craft (with a cooldown) and they were competing with raid gear, so there was market for them.

Well professions suck, i give you that, but there are sill lots of ways to profit from them.

[Topornic]

I honestly hate that boosting is a thing. I really, really, really despise it.
I hate it almost as much as multiboxers.

Acquire what you want by working for it and building up a character and your social connections? Heck no, just throw money!
Getting outskilled in PVP? Enter as a deathball-swarm of multiboxed clones and kill people with a single buttonpress one by one!
Honest material gathering? Heck no son, your multiboxed clones all mine and herb the same node!
Hone your tradeskill and advertise, creating fair competition and standing out because you're friendly, fun, engaging and/or simply offering the most for the least? NOPE nothing you craft is worth a nickel.

And all these loopholes.
"It's not illegal cause it isnt ingame material being traded for IRL money despite people buying the gold they need for it in the first place with IRL money"
"Its not illegal cause its multiple accounts being paid for and Blizzard wont ban anyone thats a big source of income like that".

Fuuuuuuuug yooouuuuu. I want people to make money by in-game means, not by outside-game-enabled ingame means. Pay to win, thats what it is. Pay-to-win? In my MMO? It's more likely than you think.

My thoughts exactly. I report every multiboxer anyway just because. And the boosting spam is real. It's even worse than gold selling back in the day. You can't play without a spam filter addon, all trade chats are just a shitshow.
Whether you like it or not multiboxers and boosting communities are a scourge and cancer on this game from player side. I don't even know why would anyone be such a cunt to buy these boosts. Like for real, why would you pay for someone to do something for you in game? To cheese PUGs requirement for achieve or rio? To get gear that no one cares about?

[Marrilaife]

All you need to do is like 1 hour per week to get all consumables.

Not even close. Farming augment runes and herbs by hand will take more time than your weekly raiding schedule. Same with farming gold if it isn't done by boosting or flipping.

And no, boosts haven't become cheaper for casuals because they get less gold for their 20$ so even if prices dropped in gold a bit, the value of token dropped in half.

Also wrong that farming wasn't worth in legion, turning bloods for crafting mats, selling felwort and bacon and other casual friendly methods were a decent portion of my income, unless you mean stuff like "sitting in a spot for 5 hours grinding" then nope, I doubt casuals do that, it's mostly what bots do not real players. Oh, and some crazy nolife streamers.

And no idea why would you say casuals don't level alts. Tons of people did in Legion so they can get class mounts and artifact transmogs. Casuals have more time to level alts and such since they don't spend 10-15h a week raiding, pushing pvp rating or m+ keys.

Mage tower was a great success for that reason, after the argunite gear was implemented even casuals could gear multiple alts with little effort to the point beating mage tower wasn't prohibitive and it didn't require a group so was perfect for solo players.

And even with 2-3 characters you could get decent income from class halls and turning things like excess resources, bloods and sargerites into sellable goods. Also from running WQs with a bodyguard.

Anyway out of the 2 inflation promotes turning gold into goods because gold loses value over time. Deflation promotes stockpiling gold and sitting on it, because it gains purchasing power over time. So yes, hyperinflation was boosting sales of items like pets and mounts people were "investing into" in attempts to preserve the value of their current gold into the future.