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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    *snip*
    You are a (vocal) minority. Like these Windows 10 rebels or whatever you call them.

    In the end world is going to be more and more interconnected and I think instead of trying to be some sort of e-hermit, people should embrace that, because all in all it is simply better life for everyone.

    I can tell you that as ex-IT professional and current tech enthusiast. Thankfully I grew out of that "IT professional" part.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    A number of discussions and articles have popped up recently regarding whether or not people should disclose the presence of smart devices int heir homes to guests. Things like Google Home/Nest, Amazon Echo, etc.

    The premise of the idea is that some people value their privacy a great deal, to the point of not ever having these devices. Just the same, some people don't use Google Chrome or whatever because they want to 'hide their data'. Which is FINE. To each their own. My personal opinion on data isn't important.

    That said, you probably don't know all your friends opinions on data gathering devices.

    1) Disclose presence of data devices in home to all guests, and let them decide what to do (Maybe offer to turn them off?)
    2) Assume that anyone who has a problem with these devices is taking a risk of being recorded by going out of their own house.
    3) Something else?

    Personally, I never really thought about it. I don't care about having them in my home, but never considered what other people might think while staying there.
    It is a good question. If you are in a two party consent state you may actually be required to either post notice at entryways or verbally inform people they may be recorded. In one party consent states its probably good form to at least mention it.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    This would be a strong and resounding YES.

    I have once left the house of a fairly good friend (call it "second degree friend" already after learning that his fucking Alexa is there and will be active, and I'd do this every single time again. Stupid idiots that bug their homes can bugger right off, I won't be any part of it. If you do not tell me that I'm spied on, and push came to shove, I'd have no issues suing you no matter how close we thought we were.

    Seriously. This is right up there with fucking w/o contraceptives (yes, plural) or visiting kindergarden unvaccinated.

    If I discover your bug I haven't been warned about, expect me to flat out throw it to the ground and stomp on it. I'll also never visit again. You're too dumb to waste my sparse spare time on.
    The only one getting sued would be you for destroying someone else's property. If being surveiled is such an issue to you, it's on you to ask homeowners if they have smart devices/cameras.

    Do you smash door cams before walking in someone's home? Do you ask every person you talk to if their phones are off?
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    Why thankfully? I'm enjoying it a lot. Though I have to add that I work for the industry, not home-user applications. I suspect that I wouldn't be as happy in the latter area.
    You assume too much, I simply moved on from IT to Software Development about 6 years ago, after around 7 years of wasting my time in IT. I never worked in any sort of home-user applications related "IT". My last IT position was in RAD as Network Engineer, I just figured out I'd rather actually build solutions opposed to merely deploying them.

    Should have moved sooner, really.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    The general public isn't ready for complete transparency of unharmful/colorful actions and discussions.
    Best thing I've read so far in this thread! 100% Agree!

  6. #46
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    Wait are we still talking about Siri and Google home, or did we already jump to toilet cams and shower spy cams?
    A lot of homes these days (especially people who do AirBnB) have interior cameras. I have a Wyze camera, and had a few cheapie phone cameras that I had used at one time to check in on my kitty when I was away on vacation for a few days, that said, the cameras didn't get turned off when I returned.

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Wouldn't any "data" gathered just be linked back to the person who owns the device? Unless your guest is walking around with a smart-phone set to sync up with any device in the vicinity, or something...in which case they can't really care about their privacy that much.
    I don't think the issue is really about applying what data to whom, but that the data/audio/video is saved somewhere, and while unlikely, potentially viewed by some rando.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    A lot of homes these days (especially people who do AirBnB) have interior cameras. I have a Wyze camera, and had a few cheapie phone cameras that I had used at one time to check in on my kitty when I was away on vacation for a few days, that said, the cameras didn't get turned off when I returned.


    I don't think the issue is really about applying what data to whom, but that the data/audio/video is saved somewhere, and while unlikely, potentially viewed by some rando.
    I have a wyze camera. I only use it to watch my sugar gliders cage when I'm not home though

  8. #48
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    I don't personally know anyone with a door cam that is connected to the internet. I'd ask for the phone to be off if it would become evident that I have been listened to by it. So far, I give them the benefit of the doubt.
    You may not know anyone personally who has one, but they're becoming more and more popular, and I guarantee they've seen you, specifically. Though being seen/saved on video out in public is sort of a case of 'you're in public'
    Last edited by chazus; 2019-10-17 at 11:00 PM.
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  9. #49
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    Where I live you need a special permit to install cameras that look at public areas
    I'm not gonna ask where you live, however that's definitely not normal.

    In fact, Amazon is spending millions to have people install Ring units and working with police jurisdictions to create effectively video networks. It's not only becoming more common, and popular, but even encouraged with incentives and subsidies.

    And as long as such cameras don't stream and/or save their data, I have no objections. If they do, and they look at the open sidewalk, that's illegal here already and needs to be tackled.
    Yeah, things are going in the opposite direction.
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  10. #50
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Of course not in my home. I do not have any guests that I can think of where it would be a problem anyway. I think it would be very common now days for people to have smart TV's, tablets and phones, etc. in their homes. So quests should expect it. Also, like some others have said, pets are something any of my quests would have to accept if they are allergic to dogs. Or stay away.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
    The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to - prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..” - Samuel Adams

  11. #51
    Should? No, it's your home.

  12. #52
    In my own house? Of course not. Whatever I decide to do inside my house is my business and your forfeit your rights to such things when you come inside. I'm also not going to leash or muzzle my dogs in my home or alter dietary habits that may offend people. If you happen to see a smart device in my home and you're uncomfortable with it, the door is exactly where you left it on the way in.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    No and no.


    Smartphone: Yes. Only apps I use on it: Whatsapp, reluctantly, because friends. A simple backgammon game for when on the shitter. No email, no internet, and certainly no payment stuff. Oh and google maps, where I'm not really happy about that they deliver such a good service. Basically the only exception where I willingly allow someone to track me.

    Social media: If you count MMO-C as such, I guess I have. But my email address I used isn't linked to my real name, as is nothing I write. No Facebook, no Instagram, no Twitter, no Tumblr, no Snapchat, only 2 domestic technical forums for my job, where again, none of my data is real or points to the real ones.

    Other accounts: Ebay because useful, but used very rarely. Netflix and Amazon because sadly near impossible to forego.

    That should be about it. And I'm currently planning to finally get a VPN, and also move all my browsing into a VM so that none of my other data is technically even on the same PC. Btw: I'm an IT professional and tech enthusiast.
    And paranoid, but to each their own.

  14. #54


    But really, who cares? You've probably got a more capable "listening device" in your pocket right now. Do you really know everything it's doing?

  15. #55
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I'm not gonna ask where you live, however that's definitely not normal.

    In fact, Amazon is spending millions to have people install Ring units and working with police jurisdictions to create effectively video networks. It's not only becoming more common, and popular, but even encouraged with incentives and subsidies.


    Yeah, things are going in the opposite direction.
    In Germany you can´t put up cameras that film a open area which isn´t your own turf, only the state can do such things. I´m really glad for it being that way, bcs not everyone is such a show happy country as america...

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I'm not gonna ask where you live, however that's definitely not normal.

    In fact, Amazon is spending millions to have people install Ring units and working with police jurisdictions to create effectively video networks. It's not only becoming more common, and popular, but even encouraged with incentives and subsidies.


    Yeah, things are going in the opposite direction.
    Sorry, but in case you haven't noticed America has been nothing but the negative role model globally for a few decades.

    Sensible people nowadays look to what America does as what not to emulate, and for good reasons. This is yet another example of why, as Americans like yourself are all too willing to throw away their privacy and self-preservation; passing that off as some sort of positive and beneficial social progress.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingForBlizzcon View Post
    So recording what someone does online isn't related to recording someone irl?
    Hmmm....
    There's a distinct difference between installing a text file on someone else's computer without permission that tracks browsing history unrelated to your website and choosing to have a voice-activated "smart" device in your own home.

  18. #58
    Yes, people have a right to know if technology might affect them when they step into somebody's house.

  19. #59
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    Smart devices are a relatively new thing, so the code of conduct isn't so clear yet or at least widely known. I would say they need to be disclosed, at least if they're of the kind that capture footage.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    Smart devices are a relatively new thing, so the code of conduct isn't so clear yet or at least widely known. I would say they need to be disclosed, at least if they're of the kind that capture footage.
    We should also have waivers for people to sign upon entering our homes.

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