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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    So what is it now? You want me to sue or not? I can't tell anymore. Make up your mind!
    yeah i want the laughs as i stated in my first post, please go ahead, smash someones alexa and sue your friend for spying on you, oh wait it's a "metaphor" or more commonly known, silly outrage that won't lead to any action zzzzz.
    Fan reaction was muted, but fan's reactions at BlizzCon confirmed Diablo Immortal will be well received by players around the world.
    "Do you guys not have phones?"
    "You think you do, but you don't"

  2. #42
    No unless it is always on*

    Imo, this is similar to any other 'social contract' type deal. Put it this way. How many times has someone walked up to you with a knife in their hands? Now how many times have they just randomly stuck it in you. None, here. My waiters deliver my knives to me without problem, if im at a guest's house i don't get shived there either, and so on.

    But they could do it. They could easily do it. You could leave your house right now and go find a kid and kill them. But you don't. Why? Well, doesn't matter why, what matters is that the extreme, like, 99.999% of people, don't do these actions.

    I trust that the typical person who has one of these devices, isn't having it record me for nefarious reasons, just as i trust that the waiter walking towards me with a fork, isn't going to jam it into the back of my neck as she walks around me.

    *HOWEVER, a lot of these devices are permanently on. I find it really funny when people wonder how Cadbury's chocolate suddenly started appearing on their youtube ads a day after they mentioned it in the house. HOW DO YOU THINK IT KNOWS TO RESPOND WHEN YOU SAY ALEXA? Do you think it just is turned off until it hears the first syllable of 'Alexa'? No, it is always on, it is always listening. Listening and understanding.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    This would be a strong and resounding YES.

    I have once left the house of a fairly good friend (call it "second degree friend" already after learning that his fucking Alexa is there and will be active, and I'd do this every single time again. Stupid idiots that bug their homes can bugger right off, I won't be any part of it. If you do not tell me that I'm spied on, and push came to shove, I'd have no issues suing you no matter how close we thought we were.

    Seriously. This is right up there with fucking w/o contraceptives (yes, plural) or visiting kindergarden unvaccinated.

    If I discover your bug I haven't been warned about, expect me to flat out throw it to the ground and stomp on it. I'll also never visit again. You're too dumb to waste my sparse spare time on.
    You destroy my property and you’ll be the one being sued. I guess you don’t have a smartphone either? No social media? No accounts on internet? Oh wait, that last one you do have for sure.

  4. #44
    IMO, no.


    Instead people should assume that every modern home going forward has these devices.

    This is the reality, give it another 10-20 years and you will have these devices in just about every home aside from some serious old timers or country bumpkins living in the middle of nowhere.

    Heck, everyone has personal recording device listening in in their pocket, should we put a warning label on our foreheads or some such?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by SoaD009 View Post
    Do you live in the United States? Are you a 4th amendment expert from your law school training?
    No and no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    You destroy my property and you’ll be the one being sued. I guess you don’t have a smartphone either? No social media? No accounts on internet? Oh wait, that last one you do have for sure.
    Smartphone: Yes. Only apps I use on it: Whatsapp, reluctantly, because friends. A simple backgammon game for when on the shitter. No email, no internet, and certainly no payment stuff. Oh and google maps, where I'm not really happy about that they deliver such a good service. Basically the only exception where I willingly allow someone to track me.

    Social media: If you count MMO-C as such, I guess I have. But my email address I used isn't linked to my real name, as is nothing I write. No Facebook, no Instagram, no Twitter, no Tumblr, no Snapchat, only 2 domestic technical forums for my job, where again, none of my data is real or points to the real ones.

    Other accounts: Ebay because useful, but used very rarely. Netflix and Amazon because sadly near impossible to forego.

    That should be about it. And I'm currently planning to finally get a VPN, and also move all my browsing into a VM so that none of my other data is technically even on the same PC. Btw: I'm an IT professional and tech enthusiast.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    *snip*
    You are a (vocal) minority. Like these Windows 10 rebels or whatever you call them.

    In the end world is going to be more and more interconnected and I think instead of trying to be some sort of e-hermit, people should embrace that, because all in all it is simply better life for everyone.

    I can tell you that as ex-IT professional and current tech enthusiast. Thankfully I grew out of that "IT professional" part.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    A number of discussions and articles have popped up recently regarding whether or not people should disclose the presence of smart devices int heir homes to guests. Things like Google Home/Nest, Amazon Echo, etc.

    The premise of the idea is that some people value their privacy a great deal, to the point of not ever having these devices. Just the same, some people don't use Google Chrome or whatever because they want to 'hide their data'. Which is FINE. To each their own. My personal opinion on data isn't important.

    That said, you probably don't know all your friends opinions on data gathering devices.

    1) Disclose presence of data devices in home to all guests, and let them decide what to do (Maybe offer to turn them off?)
    2) Assume that anyone who has a problem with these devices is taking a risk of being recorded by going out of their own house.
    3) Something else?

    Personally, I never really thought about it. I don't care about having them in my home, but never considered what other people might think while staying there.
    It is a good question. If you are in a two party consent state you may actually be required to either post notice at entryways or verbally inform people they may be recorded. In one party consent states its probably good form to at least mention it.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    This would be a strong and resounding YES.

    I have once left the house of a fairly good friend (call it "second degree friend" already after learning that his fucking Alexa is there and will be active, and I'd do this every single time again. Stupid idiots that bug their homes can bugger right off, I won't be any part of it. If you do not tell me that I'm spied on, and push came to shove, I'd have no issues suing you no matter how close we thought we were.

    Seriously. This is right up there with fucking w/o contraceptives (yes, plural) or visiting kindergarden unvaccinated.

    If I discover your bug I haven't been warned about, expect me to flat out throw it to the ground and stomp on it. I'll also never visit again. You're too dumb to waste my sparse spare time on.
    The only one getting sued would be you for destroying someone else's property. If being surveiled is such an issue to you, it's on you to ask homeowners if they have smart devices/cameras.

    Do you smash door cams before walking in someone's home? Do you ask every person you talk to if their phones are off?
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    You are a (vocal) minority. Like these Windows 10 rebels or whatever you call them.
    Eh, Win10 works pretty well and I actually like it (after kicking that stupid Cortana as much back as possible). The only thing I really hate about it are the enforced updates.

    In the end world is going to be more and more interconnected and I think instead of trying to be some sort of e-hermit, people should embrace that, because all in all it is simply better life for everyone.
    I have no issues with being interconnected by itself. The problem is that the structures we have for it are inherently unsafe, and especially in the emerging market of IoT the percentage of black sheep in that regard that either don't care enough or have way too little knowledge/experience with data security is unsettling. Another issue I have is the push towards having your actual personal data in multiple databanks of private entities, where you have not the slightest insight into how said data is stored, protected and accessed.

    Get these two things fixed, and I'll happily log my frigde in.


    I can tell you that as ex-IT professional and current tech enthusiast. Thankfully I grew out of that "IT professional" part.
    Why thankfully? I'm enjoying it a lot. Though I have to add that I work for the industry, not home-user applications. I suspect that I wouldn't be as happy in the latter area.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    The only one getting sued would be you for destroying someone else's property. If being surveiled is such an issue to you, it's on you to ask homeowners if they have smart devices/cameras.
    I actually do.

    Do you smash door cams before walking in someone's home? Do you ask every person you talk to if their phones are off?
    I don't personally know anyone with a door cam that is connected to the internet. I'd ask for the phone to be off if it would become evident that I have been listened to by it. So far, I give them the benefit of the doubt.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    Why thankfully? I'm enjoying it a lot. Though I have to add that I work for the industry, not home-user applications. I suspect that I wouldn't be as happy in the latter area.
    You assume too much, I simply moved on from IT to Software Development about 6 years ago, after around 7 years of wasting my time in IT. I never worked in any sort of home-user applications related "IT". My last IT position was in RAD as Network Engineer, I just figured out I'd rather actually build solutions opposed to merely deploying them.

    Should have moved sooner, really.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    You assume too much, I simply moved on from IT to Software Development about 6 years ago, after around 7 years of wasting my time in IT. I never worked in any sort of home-user applications related "IT". My last IT position was in RAD as Network Engineer, I just figured out I'd rather actually build solutions opposed to merely deploying them.

    Should have moved sooner, really.
    Ah okay, IT for me implied program design and development. Probably a language thing. Here what you did would be done by people called (network) technicians, or sys admins. Both types of work I so far very actively managed to avoid =)

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    The general public isn't ready for complete transparency of unharmful/colorful actions and discussions.
    Best thing I've read so far in this thread! 100% Agree!

  13. #53
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    Wait are we still talking about Siri and Google home, or did we already jump to toilet cams and shower spy cams?
    A lot of homes these days (especially people who do AirBnB) have interior cameras. I have a Wyze camera, and had a few cheapie phone cameras that I had used at one time to check in on my kitty when I was away on vacation for a few days, that said, the cameras didn't get turned off when I returned.

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Wouldn't any "data" gathered just be linked back to the person who owns the device? Unless your guest is walking around with a smart-phone set to sync up with any device in the vicinity, or something...in which case they can't really care about their privacy that much.
    I don't think the issue is really about applying what data to whom, but that the data/audio/video is saved somewhere, and while unlikely, potentially viewed by some rando.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    A lot of homes these days (especially people who do AirBnB) have interior cameras. I have a Wyze camera, and had a few cheapie phone cameras that I had used at one time to check in on my kitty when I was away on vacation for a few days, that said, the cameras didn't get turned off when I returned.


    I don't think the issue is really about applying what data to whom, but that the data/audio/video is saved somewhere, and while unlikely, potentially viewed by some rando.
    I have a wyze camera. I only use it to watch my sugar gliders cage when I'm not home though
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  15. #55
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    I don't personally know anyone with a door cam that is connected to the internet. I'd ask for the phone to be off if it would become evident that I have been listened to by it. So far, I give them the benefit of the doubt.
    You may not know anyone personally who has one, but they're becoming more and more popular, and I guarantee they've seen you, specifically. Though being seen/saved on video out in public is sort of a case of 'you're in public'
    Last edited by chazus; 2019-10-17 at 11:00 PM.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    You may not know anyone personally who has one, but they're becoming more and more popular, and I guarantee they've seen you, specifically. Though being seen/saved on video out in public is sort of a case of 'you're in public'
    Where I live you need a special permit to install cameras that look at public areas, and that isn't given out lightly to some rando for his door. Most entraces here are also recessed or the bells not facing the road, so chances of a door cam getting images from the public is rather rare for this already. And as long as such cameras don't stream and/or save their data, I have no objections. If they do, and they look at the open sidewalk, that's illegal here already and needs to be tackled.
    Last edited by Medium9; 2019-10-17 at 11:01 PM.

  17. #57
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    Where I live you need a special permit to install cameras that look at public areas
    I'm not gonna ask where you live, however that's definitely not normal.

    In fact, Amazon is spending millions to have people install Ring units and working with police jurisdictions to create effectively video networks. It's not only becoming more common, and popular, but even encouraged with incentives and subsidies.

    And as long as such cameras don't stream and/or save their data, I have no objections. If they do, and they look at the open sidewalk, that's illegal here already and needs to be tackled.
    Yeah, things are going in the opposite direction.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I'm not gonna ask where you live, however that's definitely not normal.
    It definitely should be normal. IMHO a matter of basic decency. I'm German btw.

    Here the first paragraph of a relevant article, google-translated since the page doesn't exist in English:
    The right to one's own image or portrait rights is a special expression of the general personality right. It says that every human being may in principle decide for himself whether and in what context images of him are published. In the Anglo-American area, the right to one's own image is much freer than in the German legal area.
    The relevant law is outlined in this article, again auto-translated.

    In fact, Amazon is spending millions to have people install Ring units and working with police jurisdictions to create effectively video networks. It's not only becoming more common, and popular, but even encouraged with incentives and subsidies.
    This will never fly here.

  19. #59
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Of course not in my home. I do not have any guests that I can think of where it would be a problem anyway. I think it would be very common now days for people to have smart TV's, tablets and phones, etc. in their homes. So quests should expect it. Also, like some others have said, pets are something any of my quests would have to accept if they are allergic to dogs. Or stay away.
    " America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
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  20. #60
    Should? No, it's your home.

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