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  1. #21
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    No but the specs where at least playable. Can't speak for arcane mages in that expansion, they seemed non-existent until Wrath.
    If you aren't picking arcane power you are maging wrong
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    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexplode View Post
    Hello, 1st post on a wow forum since I lost posting privileges on AJ during WOTLK lol.

    Anyway,

    Wouldn't that make your classic experience better?.

    Is it going to hurt your nostalgia or gameplay?.

    Wouldn't that make raids and other content more fun?

    Thoughts?
    An IMPORTANT distinction.

    Hybrid specs have mana issues but don't go out of mana, if you put in the effort to solve it.
    Shaman Raid Tank aficionado & expert in off-meta specs: Melee Hunter, Smite Priest, Priest Tank Guide, Rogue Tank and more...

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    No, but it made some specs actually viable instead of just going oom 1/3rd into a fight and then stood there holding their dick.
    If you're going oom that's just playing incorrectly, you're supposed to be cycling different ranks of spells to ensure you don't go oom, then spamming the highest rank at execute range.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  4. #24
    This is why classic should have been TBC not vanilla. Vanilla was such a poor version of the game.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Alex86el's Avatar
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    they have to be careful.
    it would not be cool for non-pure-dps classes to outperform classes who's only role is DPS.
    fixing mana issues would not make too much difference in pvp, combat in vanilla lasts for just seconds, to a maximum of a couple minutes, rarelly.

    personally i would start with gradual minor changes.
    like for example... a talent that increases mana regen in moonkin form by 1/2/3/4/5%.
    not enough? maybe decrease mana cost of all balance spells by say 10%.

    protadins go oom? add talent.. while you have a shield equiped, the mana cost of your non-healing spells is reduced by 5%.
    not enough? next patch make it 8%... and so on, until you hit the sweet spot.
    no taunt? add new seal that does aggro when you get hit... when "expended"... it taunts. ez.

    cat druids need to farm a dozen pulverizers to be viable?
    add the average of this attack speed as a passive talent for cats.
    Last edited by Alex86el; 2019-10-17 at 02:23 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    they have to be careful.
    it would not be cool for non-pure-dps classes to outperform classes who's only role is DPS.
    fixing mana issues would not make too much difference in pvp, combat in vanilla lasts for just seconds, to a maximum of a couple minutes, rarelly.

    personally i would start with gradual minor changes.
    like for example... a talent that increases mana regen in moonkin form by 1/2/3/4/5%.
    not enough? maybe decrease mana cost of all balance spells by say 10%.

    protadins go oom? add talent.. while you have a shield equiped, the mana cost of your non-healing spells is reduced by 5%.
    not enough? next patch make it 8%... and so on, until you hit the sweet spot.
    no taunt? add new seal that does aggro when you get hit... when "expended"... it taunts. ez.

    cat druids need to farm a dozen pulverizers to be viable?
    add the average of this attack speed as a passive talent for cats.
    All of these things would completely change pvp and make hybrids shit all over pures.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral Fayenoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    #nochanges
    #signed #nochanges
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The main function of Mythic mode for most players is to act as a reminder that, compared to that 1%, they suck.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    You think BC was close to balanced? lmao
    It was A LOT better than vanilla anyway. At least some specs were usable.

    To classic+ people .. what the fuck is wrong with you? Play the damn retail, there's your classic+ right there, or just wait for the other expansions. Why do you want classic but not classic?
    Warlock soloing https://www.youtube.com/user/Firedemon012 (old & abandoned)

  9. #29
    #nochanges
    They could fix glaring issues in one or two years, after Kel'Thuzad is farmed, there is nothing new after that. Before that, no changes I concurr
    I 'd love they fix glaring unbalances in Classic, then I could play it again.

    Like Paladins heavy weakness to fear wtf and mana drain/mana burn. (they fixed mana drain way after classic (it got nuked))

  10. #30
    Mana regen issues can be negated through potions and itemization, if they do a classic plus I can tell you they will very likely put in mana regen style stuff like they did in Wrath.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Smoke weed every day!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexplode View Post
    Hello, 1st post on a wow forum since I lost posting privileges on AJ during WOTLK lol.

    Anyway,

    Wouldn't that make your classic experience better?.

    Is it going to hurt your nostalgia or gameplay?.

    Wouldn't that make raids and other content more fun?

    Thoughts?
    It would not make my classic experience better.

    It is going to hurt my nostalgia and gameplay.

    It wouldn't make raids and other content more fun.

    There is this hashtag I want to post but can't remember how it goes.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    It was A LOT better than vanilla anyway. At least some specs were usable.
    It really wasn't lol. Elemental Shaman still had to rotate in other ranks of spells to not go oom, Boomkins also had to do this. The only reason these specs were brought was because of their utility buffs/debuffs, the same reason they're brought now. Classes didn't get more balanced, numerically, until Cataclysm, though in Wrath iterations were better in the mana sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  13. #33
    warlock and mage 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 meta forever. superior gameplay mechanics.

    I dont understand why you would bother with more mana for pvp, how does that better fulfil your classes life purpose as honor grind for rogues?
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2019-10-18 at 12:44 AM.

  14. #34
    What does this thread even hope to achieve?

    The game has been released over a month now, the devs stance of staying as true to the original game as much as possible is very well known, no amount of whining is going to change anything.

    The best you can hope for is some better itemisation if classic plus actually becomes a thing, but it most likely won't.
    Last edited by diarx; 2019-10-18 at 01:51 AM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Because it's difficult to fix without causing any unintended side effects.

    Like, assume they take a similiar approach as in TBC and simply give specs a talent that converts Int into Mp5.
    Literally any Resto Shaman would go deep into Ele to pick that up, as the Resto itself doesn't have that many valueable talents on their own.

    If i had the choice between a decent Int=>Mp5 Conversion and 10% healing, i'd take the Mp5, more Mana regen => more heals.
    You usually have enough time to heal people anyway, so the most common limitation isn't output but rather mana.
    On top of that, going deep into Ele also gives you a decent damage boost for soloing and PvP.

    On top of that, it raises the question why Hybrids would be fixed, but dot heavy specs aren't getting any fixes by removing the debuff cap.
    I mean, it is weird how Warlocks have dots like Corruption & Immolate but are doomed to spam Shadowbolt.
    It wouldn't be THAT hard to fix. It would definitely need to be part of a "Classic +" thing though. I wouldn't suggest you should do this for Classic Classic. But it wouldn't be too difficult to provide ways to make mana less of a burden for DPS specs and not be something that all healers would just go for. Make it less passive than the TBC Boomkin approach and more related to the act of doing dmg.

    My initial very early rough draft for Boomkins for Classic+ for example would give them mana regeneration from melee atks (which is actually something that was baked into TBC Boomkin form by the way), a way to shapeshift into cat or bear form without using mana (my initial idea was that Wrath would give a stacking buff until you could eventually pop cat form for free), and that would essentially function as your mana regen. Cat forms speedy attacks would be the best way to regen mana, but you also can't just pop in and out of cat form for healing either. There would be a delay in how quickly you can pop back into cat form so you can just regen some mana, throw up heals, and then pop back into cat form as a form of sustainable OP-ness.

    Also you could just give healers something decent deep into the tier in order to make it so that they couldn't afford to take the new talents. EZ

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    To classic+ people .. what the fuck is wrong with you? Play the damn retail, there's your classic+ right there, or just wait for the other expansions. Why do you want classic but not classic?

    Because retail is so far gone from the Vanilla experience??? People who want Classic+ want something that is in between Classic and TBC. We typically DON'T want them to go as extreme as they did in TBC like with flying and the complete overhaul of talent specs. Stuff like swapping Death Wish and Sweeping Strikes.

  16. #36
    Warchief msdos's Avatar
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    "Why don't they just give all ranged an evocate?"

    And thus it begun, the great homogenization debate. Hybrid Tax is the cameo appearance and then PVP is the party crasher.

    Then you look at retail and realize that like 4 classes have bloodlust, in Legion like 4 classes had an AOE stun, 3 or 4 have some type of AOE knockback, the healers all have a shitty static healing ring or fountain that they place down that is completely garbage and counter-intuitive to raids and M+, you could go on and on with this.

    So much for avoiding homogenization??

  17. #37
    #NoChangesBecauseBadIsGud

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexplode View Post
    Hello, 1st post on a wow forum since I lost posting privileges on AJ during WOTLK lol.

    Anyway,

    Wouldn't that make your classic experience better?.

    Is it going to hurt your nostalgia or gameplay?.

    Wouldn't that make raids and other content more fun?

    Thoughts?
    Hybrids have mana issues but don't go oom (if played well). That's an important distinction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by time0ut View Post
    Fixing hybrid Mana issues might make them viable in PvE, but it will make them ridiculous in PvP. It took them releasing an expansion (a full reset) to get it even close to balanced.
    You are confusing Viable and Optimal. The amount of stuff that is Viable is unbelievable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Mana issue and the debuff limits basically the main problem alot of specs arent working.

    Though this is classic, its like a museum so they shouldnt change anythin tbh.
    Working? All the specs work, their not Optimal but they work. The majority of "your non-working" specs do WAY more than the necessary dps to kill a boss. Just because its not on the same level as a drugged up fury warrior, doesn't mean the boss won't be defeated.
    Shaman Raid Tank aficionado & expert in off-meta specs: Melee Hunter, Smite Priest, Priest Tank Guide, Rogue Tank and more...

  19. #39
    If that would be the case i want my entire mana bar removed from mages and make it so i can spam more frostbolts, need..to...push...frostbolt...harder.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    If you're going oom that's just playing incorrectly, you're supposed to be cycling different ranks of spells to ensure you don't go oom, then spamming the highest rank at execute range.
    This comment should be pinned/stickied.
    Shaman Raid Tank aficionado & expert in off-meta specs: Melee Hunter, Smite Priest, Priest Tank Guide, Rogue Tank and more...

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