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  1. #61
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I have honestly never seen an animation convey the emotion a human being can. I don't understand people who suggest animation can be more emotive or display the range of real, human actors.

    Animation exists in the same space CGI does, imo: to exaggerate and embellish plot/action in ways that real people couldn't hope to achieve themselves. It is an extension of the visual arts, but I don't know that I've ever seen "the best animation" outdo "the best acting," at least on the emotional/character side of things.

    And I don't take seriously the people who think drawn characters can match the expressiveness of real (good) actors. At best they can match the dialogue of one - but never the expression.
    I'm surprised by this.

    I would imagine that those very exaggerations are what people are referring to by an elevated range. Humans can never express the absurd range of emotion you can give to a drawing, but whether you can relate to it or not is different for each person.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Well for the most basic and novice example: Breaking Bad is an adult's story.
    And what defines it being an "adult's story" in your opinion? Swearing? Violence? Drugs? Deep and complex storytelling? There's a lot of potential factors, and narrowing them down would answer your question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    is there such a thing as a genuinely mature cartoon though? By genuine I don't mean obscenities and gross out violence just to push up the age rating. I mean like thematically meaningful and believable adult's story.
    Is there such a thing as a genuinely mature live-action TV show?
    Also; Legend of The Galactic Heroes. 100 episodes of space politics.
    Last edited by apustus; 2019-10-17 at 11:20 PM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so why does Hollywood and social media deem it all kids shit then?
    Because they're idiots and unfortunately they've created a self-perpetuating cycle. They make animated stuff for kids so people think animated stuff is for kids and so they make animated stuff for kids and so on. The only real exception is the branch of animation where "not for kids" is it's biggest marketing angle (ie South Park) which doesn't help much.

    The shitty part is that there's so many stories (especially in the Science Fiction and Fantasy genres) that would be so much easier to tell in animation than in life-action but unless something changes they're not likely to be made at all. They're simply too effects heavy to be made on a budget and too niche for anyone to spend that kind of money on them.

  5. #65
    Legendary! jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    And what defines it being an "adult's story" in your opinion? Swearing? Violence? Drugs? Deep and complex storytelling? There's a lot of potential factors, and narrowing them down would answer your question.
    He'll tell you that Akira is a kids story because it's animated and then turn around and tell you that Breaking Bad is an adult story because it involves drugs and violence.

    There's no real point in trying to clarify anything, it's not a thread that's intended to motivate intelligent discussion.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I'm surprised by this.

    I would imagine that those very exaggerations are what people are referring to by an elevated range. Humans can never express the absurd range of emotion you can give to a drawing, but whether you can relate to it or not is different for each person.
    I don't mean "emotional exaggeration" when referring to what animation can do well. I'm talking about action/plot exaggeration.

    When you try and do emotional exaggeration in animation, you get characters which are literally "cartoonish." Hell, that's how that connotation of "cartoonish" came to exist - from silly exaggerations/attempts at otherwise human emotion. I can't speak to animation specifically, but I have the same problem in JRPGs, CF Sephiroth, who I thought was buffoonish even when FFVII came out, or Tidus's laugh. Occasionally you get super powerful vocal performances, but, imo, they're always dampened by animation, which, no matter how uncanny valley it is, takes away from the power and resonance of a scene.

  7. #67
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I don't mean "emotional exaggeration" when referring to what animation can do well. I'm talking about action/plot exaggeration.

    When you try and do emotional exaggeration in animation, you get characters which are literally "cartoonish." Hell, that's how that connotation of "cartoonish" came to exist - from silly exaggerations/attempts at otherwise human emotion. I can't speak to animation specifically, but I have the same problem in JRPGs, CF Sephiroth, who I thought was buffoonish even when FFVII came out, or Tidus's laugh. Occasionally you get super powerful vocal performances, but, imo, they're always dampened by animation, which, no matter how uncanny valley it is, takes away from the power and resonance of a scene.
    Well that could be a genre and media issue in itself. At that point it's just preference and I respect yours. I actively avoid JRPGs bc I find them cringey for similar reasons, among others.
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  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Like I know it's a niche already, but from someone who's skeptical, what do things like cartoons (of all kinds) have that would make people think "I want to watch this over cinema? Like a unique appeal or trait that can't be replicated by actors or humans in general. And no I don't think just the fact it's drawn counts, it has to really be something unique to itself.
    Japan has a gaming event. *or had..not sure if it still goes on* where guys go to this hotel and show off their virtual female girlfriends *usually on nds or mobile i assume* i'm pretty sure many chose the same girl *would that make her a slut?* haha
    It adds to the whole *vegetable men* syndrome in Japan too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not to mention the guy that recently "married" Hatsune Miku in Japan. He had an actual priest attend..they had a ceremony/guests/dinner.

    Also that guy in Korea that married an anime character body pillow.
    The hunter hoe with the least beloe.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I don't mean "emotional exaggeration" when referring to what animation can do well. I'm talking about action/plot exaggeration.

    When you try and do emotional exaggeration in animation, you get characters which are literally "cartoonish." Hell, that's how that connotation of "cartoonish" came to exist - from silly exaggerations/attempts at otherwise human emotion. I can't speak to animation specifically, but I have the same problem in JRPGs, CF Sephiroth, who I thought was buffoonish even when FFVII came out, or Tidus's laugh. Occasionally you get super powerful vocal performances, but, imo, they're always dampened by animation, which, no matter how uncanny valley it is, takes away from the power and resonance of a scene.
    Cartoon characters are supposed to look cartoonish though. If you try to mimic on real actors what you can do on an animated one, you get cartoonish real people and that's wrong.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    is there such a thing as a genuinely mature cartoon though? By genuine I don't mean obscenities and gross out violence just to push up the age rating. I mean like thematically meaningful and believable adult's story.
    Perfect Blue, Monster, Ghost in the Shell or Paprika are outstanding movies/tv shows.
    Very well written and made and for me on the same level as the big cinema classics.

  11. #71
    "Ghost in the Shell" was a good movie?

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    "Ghost in the Shell" was a good movie?
    I believe he's referencing the original animated one from 1995, not the horrid Scarlet Johansson 2017 version.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Tasttey View Post
    I believe he's referencing the original animated one from 1995, not the horrid Scarlet Johansson 2017 version.
    Ah! I stand corrected!

  14. #74
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Because fantasy violence is cool.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    is there such a thing as a genuinely mature cartoon though? By genuine I don't mean obscenities and gross out violence just to push up the age rating. I mean like thematically meaningful and believable adult's story.
    Absolutely, yes.

    Many of them have obscenities and over the top violence in addition to the heavy real life scenarios, but there's also an actual genre of them called "Slice of Life" where they try to stay close to real life scenarios and showcase how real people would deal with real life problems.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Oh, so it's based on it the same way that star trek is based on Tolkien. Yeah, not the same
    Okay, since this really means something to you.
    Let's ignore what the creator of the series said and that there's an easter egg in the series where the characters say everything that happends reminds them to minority report. (s1 ep 15)

    You are right! Psycho-Pass was an excellent example of an anime for stories that would never happen on another medium!

  17. #77
    Where else could i watch Historical characters fight over the holy grail to a girl and her robot friend explore a beautiful, murderous hole in the ground. Drills that could pierce the heavens to the manliest man saying za warudo. Girls having tea and playing music to informative ways to workout.

    Anime is just so diverse and i love it for that reason.

    "Would you please let me join your p-p-party?

  18. #78
    High Overlord Paetolus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    is there such a thing as a genuinely mature cartoon though? By genuine I don't mean obscenities and gross out violence just to push up the age rating. I mean like thematically meaningful and believable adult's story.
    There are plenty, and I mean plenty of anime/cartoons with a thematically meaningful stories.

    Evangelion comes to mind, sure, the main character is a kid, but the thematic message and deeper meanings of that show are very complex and interesting to look into. It takes a while to get there, but when it does, it is frankly amazing. They even had to make a separate movie for the ending, as the original aired ending was confusing and abstract as hell.

    Steins;gate is an anime with a focus on time travel. Many look past it for the wacky characters, but the story is amazing and delves into time travel as a concept and many other themes that I'd rather not spoil to much.

    Attack on Titan, while the manga and anime is still incomplete, will likely go down as a masterpiece solely for all the shit that will happen after Season 3. Assuming the author doesn't mess up the next couple of chapters and ends it well, which I have full confidence he will.

    Vinland Saga is currently airing, and is a dark revenge story that's (very) loosely based on the end of the Viking Age. (There's a lot of accurate historical context, but the story itself is pretty far off. I also haven't read the source material, so I have no idea where it will go.)

    Hell, not just anime.

    Bojack Horseman is a well made Netflix show that deals with topics surrounding depression, anxiety, drug abuse, and mental illness.

    While the fanbase ruins it, Rick and Morty is a great comedy and is well written.

    The Boondocks is a great satirical shows that deals with a lot of social class stuff and racial stuff.

    Hell, they may be aimed at kids, but most of the Pixar movies can be enjoyed by anyone, and a good few of them are very thematically meaningful.

    Just because something is animated, it isn't immediately only for kids or inferior to other mediums. It is exactly that, a storytelling medium, that can tell stories that can be enjoyed by anyone. Books are for all ages, movies are for all ages, shows are for all ages, and animation is for all ages.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so why does Hollywood and social media deem it all kids shit then?
    Hollywood would love to do more animated stuff but American society is slow to accept it. Watership Down, Secret of Nihm, and Animal Farm are examples of American movies that dived into animation.

    What is the advantage of animation?
    Less restrictions when it comes to extreme actions and gore. Imagine if the American Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat movies had been animated.

  20. #80
    This seems like such a silly question. Animation allows for literal limitless potential when it comes to creativity and visual expression, real world does not.

    It's really just that simple.
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

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