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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Off the top of my head in recent memory, the Steven Universe movie really showcased what was so fun about rubberhose animation.
    I generally hate rubberhose animation, but they actually managed to fit a rubberhose character meaningfully into a setting with more conventional animation. Quite a feat.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmatrix View Post
    Hollywood would love to do more animated stuff but American society is slow to accept it. Watership Down, Secret of Nihm, and Animal Farm are examples of American movies that dived into animation.

    What is the advantage of animation?
    Less restrictions when it comes to extreme actions and gore. Imagine if the American Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat movies had been animated.
    Being nitpicky but Watership Down was a British production.

    "Would you please let me join your p-p-party?

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    And I don't take seriously the people who think drawn characters can match the expressiveness of real (good) actors. At best they can match the dialogue of one - but never the expression.
    The exaggerated expressions are wonderful for viewers who have difficulty recognising or even spotting more subtle signs.

    (Although a good actor is good because they can make a subtle sign get through.)

  4. #84
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inukashi View Post
    Okay, since this really means something to you.
    Let's ignore what the creator of the series said and that there's an easter egg in the series where the characters say everything that happends reminds them to minority report. (s1 ep 15)

    You are right! Psycho-Pass was an excellent example of an anime for stories that would never happen on another medium!
    You're really not getting this. Just because something is inspired by something doesn't mean that it's exactly like it. I'm looking for something damn near exactly like it. Now are you able to understand?
    You know, it's kinda funny. On this forum you can question and criticize celebrities, developers, even governments. But only two you will net you instant infractions; religion and the actions of moderators. Really puts into perspective the literal god complexes we're dealing with here.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Pvt Hudson View Post
    Where else could i watch Historical characters fight over the holy grail to a girl and her robot friend explore a beautiful, murderous hole in the ground. Drills that could pierce the heavens to the manliest man saying za warudo. Girls having tea and playing music to informative ways to workout.

    Anime is just so diverse and i love it for that reason.
    Uncle Lovecraft's Fun Time Murder Hole is one of my favorite anime.



    Cross a Studio Gibli quality beautiful world with your deepest, darkest nightmares to the point where I can only handle one episode per sitting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  6. #86
    Art, the ability to do things that just not possible with real people, it helps with establishing it as a fantasy, you don't have to settle for someone who looks nothing like the authors description, you can tell people apart easier, they can have scars and shit that on a real person would make you vomit, etc.....

  7. #87
    Herald of the Titans Lemons's Avatar
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    Well for me it's because, as expensive as animation is, you can still use it to create worlds that would be WAYYYYY more expensive to produce in live action.

    Also I feel like animated violence is a lot less shocking to our systems than realistic violence...so you can tell stories that are more gruesome or laugh off violence (in comedies) in a way you can't in live action. I mean imagine a Tom and Jerry series in live action? Damn thing wouldn't make any sense because with every hit you'd be like "OK...Tom is dead now" and/or "that poor kitty! Noooo!"

    Personally I don't see the two as at odds with each other no more than I see comedy and drama as at odds. They're just two different things. It's not that I'm "choosing one over the other" I can watch both. Just this weekend I watched El Camino and Season 2 of Disenchantment...I didn't pick one over the other I picked them both.

    Now if I was the type of person who was like "pah, I NEVER watch cartoons" or "I ONLY watch cartoons" I guess I'd have some explaining to do.

  8. #88
    Seven Deadly Sins is one of my favorite animes. You couldn't create it without an astronomical CGI budget and even then a lot of scenes would require the human actors to also be animated (like in many of the Marvel films). I don't know what "adult" constitutes in fiction, but I know grown men who have teared up during some of the scenes in it. This is a short clip from the SDS movie, you can see how this would not be possible to produce only using real people.




    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Off the top of my head in recent memory, the Steven Universe movie really showcased what was so fun about rubberhose animation.
    Steven Universe is such a great series.
    "I was initially planning on being a casual fan but then I thought why not just let it consume my soul instead"

  9. #89
    "unbelievable" things in Cinema is usually created with CGI and CGI alongside Real-life People generally still looks Bad regardless of how good it is.

    In Animation everything blends perfectly whether it is meant to be a Human or Unbelievable entity.

    It's why Anime most often fails in live-action remakes.

  10. #90
    2D women are more real than real women these days.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Like I know it's a niche already, but from someone who's skeptical, what do things like cartoons (of all kinds) have that would make people think "I want to watch this over cinema? Like a unique appeal or trait that can't be replicated by actors or humans in general. And no I don't think just the fact it's drawn counts, it has to really be something unique to itself.
    Because depending on the art style, animation, and voice actors, a "Cartoon" can actually deliver a much more powerful experience. Go watch the entire series of "Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood". It's got humor, violence, excellent animation for everything from fight scenes to backgrounds, and most of all a REALLY good story and characters.

    Compare this to its live-action adaptation and there's no question which is better(SPOILER: The Live Action version is distilled garbage).

    -----------

    Or take something like Cowboy Bebop. Even though its artstyle and animation are a bit older, the overall delivery is just plain amazing! But I have serious doubts about it translating well to a live action format.

    I think what it boils down to is that animation allows the movie or TV show to take things up a notch that would otherwise be either extremely expensive to do with full CGI, or not deliver the same style. If you want a good example of this, go watch "The Animatrix" or "Love, Death, and Robots". Each one is a series of short stories with a different art style and delivery. Some are hand drawn, some are full CGI. But each has its own unique experience that would be mostly generic if live actors and sets were used.
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  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Like I know it's a niche already, but from someone who's skeptical, what do things like cartoons (of all kinds) have that would make people think "I want to watch this over cinema? Like a unique appeal or trait that can't be replicated by actors or humans in general. And no I don't think just the fact it's drawn counts, it has to really be something unique to itself.
    There's nearly a much animation in big budget blockbusters these days as there is in anime anyway. Just because it's more photo-realistic doesn't change the fact that it's animated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sicari View Post
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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Seven Deadly Sins is one of my favorite animes. You couldn't create it without an astronomical CGI budget and even then a lot of scenes would require the human actors to also be animated (like in many of the Marvel films). I don't know what "adult" constitutes in fiction, but I know grown men who have teared up during some of the scenes in it. This is a short clip from the SDS movie, you can see how this would not be possible to produce only using real people.

    Steven Universe is such a great series.
    Hmm...I don't know that I'd use "Seven Deadly Sins" as a good example of anything but cheese. It's just one trope after another. However, what it IS a good example of is a unique style of show that would absolutely not have the same impact if live actors were used. On that I completely agree.

    The same goes for Steven Universe, which would probably have a budget 10 times what it costs to produce the animation. With CGI backgrounds and scenes involving transformations costing ridiculous amounts. The other thing about "Steven Universe" is that it follows the same sort of of format as something like "Samuai Jack". By using a more simplistic art-style, it has the result of the viewer placing more attention and emphasis on the voices, the story, and the music. I'm sure there's a name for this cinematic technique, but I'm not an art student so I couldn't tell you what it is.
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  14. #94
    Data Monster Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    is there such a thing as a genuinely mature cartoon though? By genuine I don't mean obscenities and gross out violence just to push up the age rating. I mean like thematically meaningful and believable adult's story.
    Sure, there's some. I wish there was more, though. Out of the like 20-ish new anime that come out every year, maybe 1 qualifies as genuinely mature (2 in a good year). I consider myself to an oddity amongst most anime watchers, but I dislike most anime tropes. I don't like the oversized eyes (but I tolerate them). I don't like the 'ecchi' genre or 'fanservice' in general. I don't enjoy over-the-top violence unless it serves a relevant narrative purpose. I don't enjoy narratives that don't take themselves seriously and use their setting or story to advance comedy and try to get people to laugh. I don't enjoy the "slice of life" genre, which is essentially the Japanese equivalent of a sitcom.

    I watch anime because it's a place where people are more willing to test out unique ideas than live action series. A lot of this has to do with budget - anime are much cheaper to produce than live action series, especially about science fiction or fantasy concepts. Science fiction and fantasy are extremely expensive to produce as a live action series because, well, they don't exist in reality and have to be rendered via CGI or done with lots of special effects. In cartoons/anime/drawn media, these concepts cost nothing extra.

    Here's the best examples of what I'm talking about from my list of favorites:
    • Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • Monster
    • Psycho-Pass (Season 1)

    None of these series have any comedy sections basically or any pointless nudity. They take their plots incredibly seriously and deal with complicated moral and/or philosophical issues.

    Ghost in the Shell deals with issues relating to individuality in an incredibly connected futuristic society. How can somebody be an individual when nearly everything that defines a person can be replaced? Brains, hearts, limbs - in this society, all of that can be replaced with ease. The only thing left that's truly individualized and unique is human consciousness itself, and technology is encroaching even on that sacred limitation. Ghost in the Shell follows Public Security Section Nine, an elite special operatives unit consisting of cyborgs (with one exception, a veteran police detective), and they use this group as a narrative vehicle to explore some really interesting concepts. That's on top of just solving cool cases and great action scenes. It's like many different American crime dramas except set in the future and with an actual philosophical point behind it.

    Monster is very interesting to me, particularly, coming from an American perspective. For us, capital punishment is nothing big. Support for capital punishment in the States is astronomically high compared to Germany (the country Monster takes place in). The protagonist of Monster is a surgeon who ignores an order to operate on the Mayor of his city because an injured little boy who was shot in the head was there first. The Mayor dies, and the boy survives. However, the boy goes on to become a vicious and violent serial killer, who leaves behind an incredibly large trail of bodies wherever he goes. The surgeon is wrongly accused of some of these murders and goes on the hunt in pursuit of the real killer. Along the way, he learns to properly use a gun and is determined to take the life of the boy he once saved. It's a very long series (64 episodes) and deals very heavily with the moral issues of taking a life and the risk of saving a life when you don't know what that person is truly like. In fact, there's an episode where literally the protagonist begins pulling the trigger to his rifle at the start of the episode and finishes pulling it at the end of the episode. That is how focused this show is on morality.

    Psycho-Pass is also set in a futuristic city. The closest comparison to Psycho-Pass is probably the movie Minority Report (which I loved, by the way). Instead of using precognitive powers as the way to stop crime though, the Psycho-Pass system implemented in the city in the show actively scans the brains of all persons who get near a Psycho-Pass scanner. Their violent thoughts get distilled into a single 'Crime Coefficient' - or the likelihood that they are going to commit a violent crime in the future. The opening episode hooks viewers incredibly quickly with a really interesting dilemma. A drug user whose Psycho-Pass has reached a dangerous level kidnaps and sexually assaults a woman in response to getting a bad psych evaluation. This criminal is killed, but the woman who was sexually assaulted is scanned by the officers of the Public Safety Bureau and is determined to have a Psycho-Pass that is entering dangerous levels also. This is because the trauma of being sexually assaulted is deeply disruptive (obviously), and it's especially damaging to people in this city because they live lives that are so completely isolated from crime. Criminal events are so incredibly uncommon and unlikely that it has caused people to be highly sensitive to them when they do actually happen. Anyway, that's just the premise of the initial episode, and I found this series' take on both morality and future potential technology to be utterly captivating.

    Something I didn't mention is that Steins;Gate is probably my favorite anime of all-time, but it slightly deviates from what I usually want out of an anime so I left it off that list. It has a bit of fanservice, a bit of comedy, and there's a bit of "slice of life" in there as well. I make exceptions for it because it does all of that with an ulterior motive: it sets up the series from that context and then halfway through it flips everything on its head and suddenly it's an incredibly complex and interesting time travel plot where restoring the status quo requires sacrifice that goes against everything that was built up so far. Basically, it does things I don't like in order to set up an even better payoff later.

    The reason these series are unique to the medium of anime is not really because they're stories that only Japanese minds can produce, but it's because creating something of this scope in a live action format would be too expensive for an unproven concept. Maybe the right showrunner could get something like this started from scratch in the West (I mean the West has things like Dollhouse, Twin Peaks, and Firefly - it's not like it's devoid of talent at all), but the amount of people with the right level of pull to do something like that could be counted on your fingers. Basically, anime can be considered another outlet for interesting ideas. I continue to simultaneously keep a close watch on interesting series that come from both places. If it's got an interesting premise that hasn't been explored too frequently before, then it's off to a fantastic start in my opinion.
    Last edited by Simca; 2019-10-21 at 09:00 PM.
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  15. #95
    The Lightbringer Xlightning's Avatar
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    I enjoy both. Anime has really cool moments that would be hard to replicate in movies with real people.

  16. #96
    Data Monster Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I have honestly never seen an animation convey the emotion a human being can. I don't understand people who suggest animation can be more emotive or display the range of real, human actors.

    Animation exists in the same space CGI does, imo: to exaggerate and embellish plot/action in ways that real people couldn't hope to achieve themselves. It is an extension of the visual arts, but I don't know that I've ever seen "the best animation" outdo "the best acting," at least on the emotional/character side of things.

    And I don't take seriously the people who think drawn characters can match the expressiveness of real (good) actors. At best they can match the dialogue of one - but never the expression.
    I don't really care that much about the quality of acting and never have. If it's at least like a 4/10 or 5/10 acting job, it's good enough for me.

    Acting is just a delivery method for the narrative. Delivery is something - acting isn't pointless, but it's a minor point. If the narrative is conveyed to the viewer without the audience taking exception to unusually bad acting, then the actors have accomplished their jobs.

    I can be touched by incredibly good acting and it can sometimes redeem aspects of a narrative, but I've found this to be equally true of good voice acting and animation. Overall, I still think acting generally takes a heavy backseat to narrative. It's why I don't bother to learn the names of actors either. Might as well name them things like 'mostly competent actor A'.
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Hmm...I don't know that I'd use "Seven Deadly Sins" as a good example of anything but cheese. It's just one trope after another.
    Can you give examples? I'm not an anime connoisseur, in fact, I disliked it for many years because all the ones I saw I thought sucked, including Cowboy Bebop. I don't personally find SDS cheesy at all, but maybe that's subjective.

    The other thing about "Steven Universe" is that it follows the same sort of of format as something like "Samuai Jack". By using a more simplistic art-style, it has the result of the viewer placing more attention and emphasis on the voices, the story, and the music.
    Based solely on SU's art style I didn't expect to like it, but the writing for the most part has been engrossing.
    "I was initially planning on being a casual fan but then I thought why not just let it consume my soul instead"

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Can you give examples? I'm not an anime connoisseur, in fact, I disliked it for many years because all the ones I saw I thought sucked, including Cowboy Bebop. I don't personally find SDS cheesy at all, but maybe that's subjective.
    It's absolutely subjective. Although that you didn't enjoy Cowboy Bebop means you just have bad taste! XD

    As for examples, I don't even know where to start. It's got almost every anime trope that's ever existed. Shirtless cool edgelords, timid big breasted princess, pervy hero, overpowered secret abilities, transformations, tragic histories, etc, etc, ad infinitum. I'm not saying that's necessarily bad. But it's definitely riding the high end of the cheese scale. So much of it is eye-rolling over the top that it's hard to stomach sometimes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Based solely on SU's art style I didn't expect to like it, but the writing for the most part has been engrossing.
    Now imagine SU live, with mediocre teenage actors. Scratch that. Imagine it with GOOD live actors and it still wouldn't carry the same effect.
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  19. #99
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so why does Hollywood and social media deem it all kids shit then?
    Why do you generalize?

    It is just not true.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    is there such a thing as a genuinely mature cartoon though? By genuine I don't mean obscenities and gross out violence just to push up the age rating. I mean like thematically meaningful and believable adult's story.
    Grave of the fireflies. Akira. Spirited away. Those all come to mind for starters

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    As for examples, I don't even know where to start. It's got almost every anime trope that's ever existed. Shirtless cool edgelords, timid big breasted princess, pervy hero, overpowered secret abilities, transformations, tragic histories, etc, etc, ad infinitum. I'm not saying that's necessarily bad. But it's definitely riding the high end of the cheese scale. So much of it is eye-rolling over the top that it's hard to stomach sometimes.
    Fortunately the ecchi stuff dies out after awhile. None of the characters impressed me as edgelords unless being a demon makes you one by default. :P "Secret" abilities goes along with certain characters concealing their true identities and/or not knowing their true origins, so it wasn't anything that stood out to me. Transformations seemed limited and, again, wasn't anything I found particularly noticeable. It's not like DBZ where every fight every character with an once of Saiyan blood changes hairstyle and color. I liked the characters and the story so much I started reading the manga after I saw the first season on Netflix.

    Tragic histories I think is oftentimes a necessity. I don't remember the last time I found a character who had nothing bad ever happen to them compelling or relatable. Considering half the characters are immortal (or close to it) it's not only plausible but expected that they would've experienced heartbreak at some point in their existence.
    "I was initially planning on being a casual fan but then I thought why not just let it consume my soul instead"

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