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  1. #21
    What about with the advancements of robotics. Imagine boston dynamics stuff 30-50 years from now mixed with a full immersion VR from the perspective/view from the robot. Hyper-reality? Add in a full sensory body suit and you are back home living life through the robot. Find a way to keep the brain (conciousness/spirit whatever) alive outside the body in a jar so speak with the wet work to control one of these robots remotely. Think of the possibilities.

  2. #22
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    would it come with elves?
    Unlimited possibilities and all you can think about are are an idealization of current western standards of human beauty.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Tayler
    Political conservatism is just atavism with extra syllables and a necktie.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    The body may have died....but that doesn't matter. Everything that is "me" continues on in this new body that is identical to the one that died.
    *eye roll*

    Alright.

    Say I could clone you 1:1, with completely identical brain down to the last neurotransmitter molecule placement, all memories and everything. Would let me shoot the original you in the head if I gave your clone 1 million dollars?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    The question is, is your consciousness transferring with your body? What exactly makes you conscious? And is the transporter you a you with all memories or you yourself?
    The new being is always a new entity, that thinks it is the original. The original entity always "loses the coin toss".

  4. #24
    The Unstoppable Force breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Unlimited possibilities and all you can think about are are an idealization of current western standards of human beauty.
    got a problem with it? too bad. although now that you mention it i can think of much more twisted possibilities for it.
    use it as a mandatory interment instrument for criminals that they can never leave.
    forcing child molestors to be given the sensation they are being executed repeatedly as a form of torture.
    using it to simulate repeated gruesome punishments for violent murderers.
    Last edited by breadisfunny; 2019-10-21 at 05:23 AM.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    *eye roll*

    Alright.

    Say I could clone you 1:1, with completely identical brain down to the last neurotransmitter molecule placement, all memories and everything. Would let me shoot the original you in the head if I gave your clone 1 million dollars?
    Are you talking about:

    a) two separate instances of myself .

    or

    b)moving my consciousness over to a new body.

    If it's "a"...both versions of me would want to continue living...because both of them are still "me". I wouldn't agree to let you kill me.

    If it's "b"...then you can do what you wish with the empty shell... if it's still "alive" at all it's completely devoid of sentience.

    The transporter scenario is more akin to "b"... the old body is disassembled in one place and then reassembled in another. Creating actual clones with the transporter has happened... but it's exceedingly rare. Out of all the many different races that have been using transporter technology for over a century... it seems to have only happened to two indivuals. William Thomas Riker and James Tiberius Kirk

    In Riker's case...the clone was identical to him in every single way...up to the point of duplication. There was no way to determine which of them was the "real" William Thomas Riker. In the end, the one that was serving on the Enterprise stayed on the Enterprise and the other started a new life elsewhere...eventually ending up with the Maquis.

    In Kirk's case it wasn't as perfect as a cloning job. The two Kirks were physically identical...but each of them had different aspects of Kirk's Personality and they had to be merged together again with the transporter.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2019-10-21 at 07:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sicari View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Are you talking about:

    a) two separate instances of myself .

    or

    b)moving my consciousness over to a new body.

    If it's "a"...both versions of me would want to continue living...because both of them are still "me". I wouldn't agree to let you kill me.

    If it's "b"...then you can do what you wish with the empty shell... if it's still "alive" at all it's completely devoid of sentience.

    The transporter scenario is more akin to "b"... the old body is disassembled in one place and then reassembled in another. Creating actual clones with the transporter has happened... but it's exceedingly rare. Out of all the many different races that have been using transporter technology for over a century... it seems to have only happened to two indivuals. William Thomas Riker and James Tiberius Kirk

    In Riker's case...the clone was identical to him in every single way...up to the point of duplication. There was no way to determine which of them was the "real" William Thomas Riker. In the end, the one that was serving on the Enterprise stayed on the Enterprise and the other started a new life elsewhere...eventually ending up with the Maquis.

    In Kirk's case it wasn't as perfect as a cloning job. The two Kirks were physically identical...but each of them had different aspects of Kirk's Personality and they had to be merged together again with the transporter.
    You can't move consciousness by creating an exact copy, only copy it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    You can't move consciousness by creating an exact copy, only copy it.
    We're talking about theoreticals here. Neither one of those things is possible with our current knowledge. But then again disassembling and reassembling a living human being in another place isn't possible either...

    I feel you might be missing my overall point though.

    My consciousness is "me". Whether it's in one body or 100 bodies.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2019-10-21 at 09:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sicari View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    We're talking about theoreticals here. Neither one of those things is possible with our current knowledge. But then again disassembling and reassembling a living human being in another place isn't possible either...

    I feel you might be missing my overall point though.

    My consciousness is "me". Whether it's in one body or 100 bodies.
    I don't think I'm missing your point. I just get pissed off when people think continuity doesn't matter when discussing the transfer of consciousness.

    In Star Trek universe the people who enter the transporter die each and every time they do it, the new entity that gets reassembled on the other side just thinks it is the original.

    Your consciousness, you, exists only in your original body.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I don't think I'm missing your point. I just get pissed off when people think continuity doesn't matter when discussing the transfer of consciousness.

    In Star Trek universe the people who enter the transporter die each and every time they do it, the new entity that gets reassembled on the other side just thinks it is the original.

    Your consciousness, you, exists only in your original body.
    It doesn't matter if I'm "the original"...the only thing that matters is my consciousness.

    But again, this is all theoretical and closer to philosophy than actual science. It's not really worth getting "pissed off" about...it's not like it's something we can really expect to happen in our lifetimes.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2019-10-21 at 10:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sicari View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  10. #30
    This is a foolish question on a number of levels. For one, the infrastructure, content, and maintenance of those systems would need to be seen to, and I realize you specify that you dont count those people but the problem there is that as long as those people exist they will require OTHER people to do things like produce their food, their clothes, the materials that come together to form new systems, etc. And once you have that number of people you then need law enforcement, fire services, health care.

    I mean do you seriously think that if people reorient on a new paradigm that human society will stop working? Yeah we have saline drips and all that stuff for keeping your body hydrated and fed and shit, but you'll note that most coma patients are in TERRIBLE health without constant maintenance such as nurses massaging muscle groups etc, and even WITH that they still visibly waste away. A quick check shows that 26 to 34 months is the average life expectancy of your average coma patient, because believe it or not IV's and things aren't very effective at keeping a human being 'fed'. Most of the current technology on that front is just desperately keeping an unconscious person alive long enough to hopefully wake up.

    Another point is that you cant just say 'oh we could probably make money inside the VR' because thats not actually how money works. Yeah people make money off of real life video games, but only a VERY SMALL portion of them. Certainly not a sizeable enough chunk of the population to reasonably expect larges swathes of people to disappear into VR and never come back. They'd have to pay for their VR units. And the homes they go in. And the IV's they use or food or whatever that keeps them alive.

    Really, separating out all the stuff you do as 'not counting against the argument' is basically the same as starting a conversation with 'do you think if all the air was gone we'd stop being able to breath?' you're just arbitrarily deciding conditions ahead of time that make your point work without really thinking about the reality of things.
    Last edited by Jaransan; 2019-10-21 at 09:50 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    It doesn't matter if I'm "the original"...the only thing that matters is my consciousness.

    But again, this is all theoretical and closer to philosophy than actual science.
    Your consciousness is tied to your original body. If you copi d your consciousness into a computer, you would still be stuck in your original body. The copy on the computer would think it is the original though, while being wrong.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Your consciousness is tied to your original body. If you copi d your consciousness into a computer, you would still be stuck in your original body. The copy on the computer would think it is the original though, while being wrong.
    Again, theoretical and philosophical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sicari View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I think it's hilarious that anyone thinks brian-uploading would work when there isn't a shred of proof...
    If it worked it'd just be a copy of you, not you you anyways. Others would see it as 'you', but it ain't the original you. And the copy would think it's you.

  14. #34
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Your consciousness is tied to your original body. If you copied your consciousness into a computer, you would still be stuck in your original body. The copy on the computer would think it is the original though, while being wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Again, theoretical and philosophical.
    Check out the show Living With Yourself. It is on Netflix. Good example of the complications of have a clone.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

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  15. #35
    Immortal Hammerfest's Avatar
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    I think FDVR would be a momentary blip on the radar screen of human history, were it made manifest. People would get tired of it pretty quickly the same way Kirk got tired of the Nexus in "Star Trek: Generations."
    -Harlan Hammerfest, Paladin

    "Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you forgotten doublethink?" - O'brien, from Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four"

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Check out the show Living With Yourself. It is on Netflix. Good example of the complications of have a clone.
    Been meaning to watch it. Maybe soon!

  17. #37
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Been meaning to watch it. Maybe soon!
    Started watching it last night. I'm enjoying it more than I thought I would.

    What I find relatable to this topic is the conscience part. It touches on both sides of cloning. First, what if you were cloned, but the original version was killed. Second, what if you and the clone are both alive.

    (The stuff mentioned is all in the trailer, and first episode. No worries about spoilers there.)
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  18. #38
    The Unstoppable Force zenkai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cat588 View Post
    If we have full dive VR would there still be people living in real life apart from poeple who maintain the VR equipment ? I am referring to VR brain implants,BCIs or a VR chip connected to a central Ai computer not VR headsets, googles, etc? I am asking hypothetically since i know that full dive VR is still a while away

    I know that we need to eat and drink etc but maybe using life support machines to take care of our bodily functions, also I know we need money, but I am sure we can also make money using VR

    If you were to give a rough estimate what percentage of people would stay in the real world instead of using these devices? 25 Percent maybe
    no, some people with addictive personalities will take it to far but it wont be the norm
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    Wrong, NIXON was Impeached but was not removed from Office.
    Stop Lying, you seem to have a poor understanding of American History.
    This is what I argue with daily...

  19. #39
    Full Dive?

    If I cringe any harder, i'll implode...

  20. #40
    Epic! Cidzor's Avatar
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    Aren't we basically talking about the Matrix here, except that we'd be willing participants?

    I don't think I'd willingly do that. If it's something I can turn on and off as I pleased (gaming, for example), that could be cool. But the idea of just being hooked up to life support and living in a virtual world for the rest of my life is not one I like, no matter how advanced the technology gets or how shitty the real world gets.
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    never dick crazy.
    unless they have tentacles and more then 2 eyes.

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