Let’s move away from forced specs.

[Zagreus]

As a DK main, I have missed having the ability to tank, as frost, with 2x 1h weapons. Bring back DK auras and let me dual wield tank again.

[Tiradon]

De-pruning is coming.

[Aphrel]

So basically I want the old type of class design back... in a modern version maybe.

Where do i sign up? As a mage i feel like im but a shadow of my past glory. My mage in classic has more tools to deal with enemies than my mage in bfa..

This got me thinking, i saw a thread the other day titled something like "What do YOU want to see in the next expac".
And i was coming up pretty blank.

But now i realize, THIS is what i want. I want my mage to feel like a mage again, not a frost/fire/arcane spec. I WANT TO BE A WHOLE MAGE AGAIN!

[Charge me Doctor]

As I see it there is no reason for it not to be there. Just let a Death Knight have all Death Knight abilities available even if only some of them are useful at one given time. It’s just about class identity. A Death Knight should be a Death Knight.

There is no reason for Strike to not be in warriors arsenal (you know, objectively inferior ability that warriors use when leveling to 10). Or there is no reason for rogues in classic to not retain lower ranks of abilities after getting next rank.
You aren't even arguing or presenting a point - give at least one reason for AotD to exist in frost DKs arsenal and have any use. If you can't come up with one - then it shouldn't be there.

[Kaver]

It adds absolutely 0 flavour, clogs up action bars if you want all these new abilities there, is a balancing nightmare, and serves no real actual purpose but reverting to the past. Spells that all specs can use, and that actually make sense, should come back for all specs, not rotational buttons that literally won't be used at all.

Just throw all the spells into the mix and let the players figure which ones to use based on their talent selections. It selective evolution.

[Kumorii]

What ever that actually means in the end...

De-pruning means what it means, prune abilities = streamline by removing abilities either completely or locked in specs.
De-prune means the opposite.

What people think it means is that A: either they think specs are gone completely and we go back to old talents. Or B: We can use all spells in all specs.
What I think it means is that SOME abilities won't be spec locked anymore and SOME abilities will come back, since I'm fairly sure that's how he explained it in the video.

[Zephire]

So you want the illusion of option back. Any min maxer will figure out the best in a short while it’s what they do for fun. Those who don’t/can’t will be left behind not knowing why or crying it’s unfair that player A min maxed and does dmg while player B didn’t min max and the healer does more damage than them.

Truth is I’m a tank if I’m doing mythic + progression I want to look at the class and know what I’m getting, not have to Q up and find out the hard way some dipsh!t thinks HIS fun is more important than 4 other players, and the cost of a key.

Short answer: No

What choice do we have now? We use simulations to find the most potent builds and roll with that. I mean, I dislike the illusion as well but we don't realy have a choice now, either.

You'll always have that problem when progressing. Maybe the class is good but the player is not, maybe the class is bad but the player is great, what if they have the perfect gear but they are also unfocused causing dumb deaths?

Why not alow for more experimenting for those who want to? I loved my priest with mindflay and holy nova back in vanilla! Was it optimal? Hell no! Was it fun? Yes, to me. Would I force my playstyle on others if they're not ok with it? No, not if we're in it together.

However, in most cases but super duper endgame I did fine. Maybe a run took some min extra, maybe a bossfight was a bit more dangerous, so what as long as we managed?

My mainpoint is basically that it's not about what choices we have, it's about how transperent we are. You could group with the most epicly geared, high scored tank and s/he could still have a bad day and they fuck up. You still find out the hard way. We just have to change our mentality, both parties have to respect one another and the reason they play, what they find fun.

OT:
Let's go! While at it, re-introduce righteous fury for threat to paladins! Man, I loved my RF when playing ret, was the best thing to be able to just pop it and taunt if the tank needed help etc. Tank paladin with divine storm, consecration and hammers everywhere, using a 2hander, don't mind if I do!

[Kaver]

There is no reason for Strike to not be in warriors arsenal (you know, objectively inferior ability that warriors use when leveling to 10). Or there is no reason for rogues in classic to not retain lower ranks of abilities after getting next rank.
You aren't even arguing or presenting a point - give at least one reason for AotD to exist in frost DKs arsenal and have any use. If you can't come up with one - then it shouldn't be there.

I’m not here to argue. I very simply stated what I want based on my own selfish opinions.

I don’t want the different ranks of the spells. I just want all abilities to be available at all time no matter which spec you choose to focus on. The reason: because I think it’s awesome in relation to class identity. That’s all.

[msdos]

"Doesn't matter, everyone will just use the best of the best of the best, sir"

Actually no they won't, because retail sucks balls.

[Kaver]

"Doesn't matter, everyone will just use the best of the best of the best, sir"

Actually no they won't, because retail sucks balls.

And even if they did then I still don’t care. I just want more abilities available no matter what.

[Frozenbro]

"Doesn't matter, everyone will just use the best of the best of the best, sir"

Actually no they won't, because retail sucks balls.

But it's true lmao, be it classic or retail, everyone uses the same shit cause blabla its a dps loss blabla does more dmg blabla it's not viable blabla you name it, the glorified illusion of choice.

[erifwodahs]

What's the point of having ability which is not worth a gcd? I mean to cast fire spells, you are literally 5sec talent swap away. I can only see RP value in it. Fire mages for instance, has IB and nova available. Why would they need a frostbolt?

[Kaver]

Where do i sign up? As a mage i feel like im but a shadow of my past glory. My mage in classic has more tools to deal with enemies than my mage in bfa..

This got me thinking, i saw a thread the other day titled something like "What do YOU want to see in the next expac".
And i was coming up pretty blank.

But now i realize, THIS is what i want. I want my mage to feel like a mage again, not a frost/fire/arcane spec. I WANT TO BE A WHOLE MAGE AGAIN!

MAKE THE MAGES GREAT AGAIN... and also the rest of the classes

- - - Updated - - -

But it's true lmao, be it classic or retail, everyone uses the same shit cause blabla its a dps loss blabla does more dmg blabla it's not viable blabla you name it, the glorified illusion of choice.

So be it.. I still want more abilities available. Even if I only use some in raids I still want the other ones to be there.

- - - Updated - - -

What's the point of having ability which is not worth a gcd? I mean to cast fire spells, you are literally 5sec talent swap away. I can only see RP value in it. Fire mages for instance, has IB and nova available. Why would they need a frostbolt?

I would not use it in a raid. But I still want it available.

[bloodmoth13]

De-pruning is coming.

Depends on how its done. I dont see them adding off spec abilities in a way where they should ever be used. The more sleek spec design is much better design for a lot of reasons and reverting progress will just bring back old design issues

[sunxsera]

I'm all for this as a Classic Hunter I miss having some of my melee abilities and being able to wield bows and swords at the same time, Big YES from me.

You mean those melee abilitys, that you put all into one macro in classic and press it when your pet loses aggro or need to melee in pvp?

Don ´t get me wrong, there could be a 1-2 melee abilitys, but they should not be part of your marksman ( for example ) rotation and not competitive at all. Otherwise the playstyle would suffer.
There is also no way to balance melee/range hunter hybrid for some content ... hunters would be gods in pvp.

Beeing able to wield melee weapons isnt that bad of an idea - but i would prefer survival `s allready existing polearms ... or even quivers as statsticks.

[erifwodahs]

MAKE THE MAGES GREAT AGAIN... and also the rest of the classes

- - - Updated - - -



So be it.. I still want more abilities available. Even if I only use some in raids I still want the other ones to be there.

- - - Updated - - -



I would not use it in a raid. But I still want it available.

Where would you use it tho? Just for RP, I would think, otherwise you would just kill mobs slowly while questing? I mean, what would not make a difference for me, so sure, good CD's would be actually locked behind talents anyway.

[americandavey]

There are too many spells for my bars as it is. I’d rather not have a bunch of healing abilities there too.

Plus, how would you handle gear? Gear changes based on your spec to str, int or agl. I’d rather not go back to the days of farming three sets of gear and having less opportunities for drops in the raid.

If you give both stats then hybrids will be way too OP since they’ll be able to kill the DPS meters while healing themselves. If you try and hybrid tax them then people who only enjoy DPSing like myself will be cucked out of our favoured play style like in Classic.

If you want a game with no defined specs, Classic is waiting for you. Leave that shit out of retail.

They would reintroduce the hybrid tax that Kaplan and Chilton loved so much in old days.

[Kaver]

Where would you use it tho? Just for RP, I would think, otherwise you would just kill mobs slowly while questing? I mean, what would not make a difference for me, so sure, good CD's would be actually locked behind talents anyway.

Basically what I really want is to get a sense of class identity back instead of spec identity.

[msdos]

Every other RPG I played, virtually, gives you access to all your abilities and then you specialize in whichever ones fit your playstyle either through gear or talents or progression.

Wow is the one where your abilities are gated off and then your talents don't correspond to your abilities at all. Blood has one talent that affects Death Strike and one for Heart Strike and the latter you never pick in a raid.

So yeah, not surprised no one wants to play this. There is no spec or build that will fit your playstyle because they're all pre-baked and identical to each other.

[Aphrel]

But it's true lmao, be it classic or retail, everyone uses the same shit cause blabla its a dps loss blabla does more dmg blabla it's not viable blabla you name it, the glorified illusion of choice.

Yet spec talents is not the only thing they removed, they removed the baseline abilities.. I dont know how many times ive been annoyed at not having cone of cold as arc or fire.
Or arcane explosion as cold or fire..
Or frostbolt as fire just for the slow.
Or fireball as frost/arc just for the dot component vs rogues
Or any of the other two specs dmging abilities for when im interupted.

The current classes feels like a shadow of their former glory. Like an old man struggling to take a piss...