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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    dude.. haven't you figured out yet that kind of methodology in warcraft just doesn't last? Having a race that just wants to conquer and dominate just fails every time
    Only because the authors WANT it to fail.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    In that case you've actually done more work than the writers, given how in the new canon of BTS all expression of Lordaeronian culture was banned, despite Sylvanas herself doing the speeches in-game.
    The irony of that speech still sticks with me. It doesn't celebrate being a citizen of lordaeron or anything, but it definitely doesn't represent Sylvanas's actual views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Children of the grave, heed my call!
    In life, we suffered unspeakable tragedies.
    We watched as our homes were razed to the ground.

    We cried out in agony as our families were cut down before our eyes.

    [IMG]https://i.redd.it/v45v5nwjhdk11.jpg[IMG]

    Finally, in the face of such atrocities, we were denied even the release of death.

    [IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/c469bf5da2eab4e5146ffe3299a79259.jpg[IMG]

    Now, we burn this wickerman as a symbol of our victory against old enemies!
    We paint our faces with the ash to send a message to new enemies - a declaration to those who fear and revile us as monsters.


    [IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/c040c468a6e3ac9efde40776442cb666.png[IMG]

    To those who would question our place in this world...
    We are NOT monsters! We are NOT the mindless wretches of a ghoul army!

    [IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/d5a677588a9d2dcbc5ced488d535af06.png[IMG]

    No... we are a force even more terrifying...
    We are the chill in a coward's spine...
    We are the instruments of an unyielding ire...


    [IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/5844122f7c3a133798a44342e89e4779.png[IMG]
    WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!!!
    [IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/ffc566cb0bacd68c4c5e64818511df75.png[IMG]
    (pictured snipped for obvious length reasons)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Only because the authors WANT it to fail.
    Exactly. Sylvanas is displayed as having the upper hand both in military terms and during the Mak'gora. But she chooses to gtfo altogether just because Sadfang ruined her makeup. It was incredibly stupid and contrived, even for BfA standards.
    "The heart of the Horde" = Alliance-approved Horde

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    The irony of that speech still sticks with me. It doesn't celebrate being a citizen of lordaeron or anything, but it definitely doesn't represent Sylvanas's actual views.
    It notes what they lost and commits them to existing on a path forward. By virtue of having a Lordaeronian holiday in open view, chaired by Sylvanas on Lordaeron Keep it already runs in contradiction to BTS.

    The speech is a celebration of being Forsaken. Given that even in BTS Sylvanas talks about how she should be with them and talks in her internal monologue about 'saving them' via Eyir, it's only out of place as of about a year in-story when some time after BTS she decides she's going to kill everyone because it's in her contract with what's presumably Mueh'zala.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-10-18 at 07:16 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  5. #25
    Oh look, another thread full of whining about Humans. Christ, can we just start banning people for veering a topic so much?

    OT: I personally think all the Holidays need a revamping, I think we also need more holidays celebrating in game events such as defeating Deathwing and Arthas. Just actual events like we have IRL.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Exactly. Sylvanas is displayed as having the upper hand both in military terms and during the Mak'gora. But she chooses to gtfo altogether just because Sadfang ruined her makeup. It was incredibly stupid and contrived, even for BfA standards.
    Can you people ever stick to the topic instead of whining that your edgy ass queen doesn't like you? Christ almighty, it's fucking annoying.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    OT: I personally think all the Holidays need a revamping, I think we also need more holidays celebrating in game events such as defeating Deathwing and Arthas. Just actual events like we have IRL.
    That's a pretty good idea, though I suppose the Wicker Man Forsaken burn represent Arthas? Or does it represent the common Stormwind human that thinks they're monsters? I'm not clear.

    A holiday celebrating Deathwing's defeat sounds like fun though, considering he broke the world and killed so many with his raving fire tantrums. Rewards could include gear fashioned after him and his evil brood (Nefarian and Onyxia too.)

    New Holiday: Destroyer's End

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    Can you people ever stick to the topic instead of whining that your edgy ass queen doesn't like you? Christ almighty, it's fucking annoying
    Can you ever bother to read everything before typing nonsense? First, I don't like Sylvanas, second I am pointing at how inconsequential the story is.

    Christ almighty, bestow this dude with at least 4th grade reading skills, I wasn't even addressing to him and he got triggered like a RL Sylvanas LOL
    "The heart of the Horde" = Alliance-approved Horde

  8. #28
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    It's a lucky thing then that Sylvanas was anti-war back in Mists, out of the purely pragmatic ground that she'd already secured her backyard. The Forsaken's claim was on Lordaeron alone. Given that the Alliance had had plenty of shit done to them by the Forsaken and had a claim on Lordaeron that they wanted to restore, you thus had both the situation for long-term conflict and a reason not to have it escalate into a world war.
    and it would have been fine if they stuck to that. but following sylvanas and her mad schemes made them lose sight of that fact. Calia strikes me at least being someone who would look to helping the forsaken regain their home instead of trying to spread undeath onto everyone else. She is the last remaining menethil after all

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    It notes what they lost and commits them to existing on a path forward. By virtue of having a Lordaeronian holiday in open view, chaired by Sylvanas on Lordaeron Keep it already runs in contradiction to BTS.
    If anything it reinforces BTS. We ARE the forsaken. It's not a celebration of Lordaeron culture at all, it's a celebration to reinforce forsaken culture. The new culture that they built around her. Channel your feelings of tragedy and vengeance towards our enemies. Burn this giant human effigy and paint your face with its ashes...

    Pig out on candy, dress in the occasional silly costume...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    New Holiday: Destroyer's End
    Culminating in a giant deathwing pinata that we punch in the face. I can get behind this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    That's a pretty good idea, though I suppose the Wicker Man Forsaken burn represent Arthas? Or does it represent the common Stormwind human that thinks they're monsters? I'm not clear.

    A holiday celebrating Deathwing's defeat sounds like fun though, considering he broke the world and killed so many with his raving fire tantrums. Rewards could include gear fashioned after him and his evil brood (Nefarian and Onyxia too.)

    New Holiday: Destroyer's End
    The fact that last Hallow's End we had to travel back in time to celebrate Horde-side was a pretty big pisstake. And the Lunar Festival definitely needs an update given what's been going on. Though there was some weird vampire nelf datamined a while back that might factor into that.

    In general though I don't think it's too big a deal, since there's a set limit to how much you can characterize these holidays given that they still need to be recognizable real world analogues.

    @Powerogue

    In BTS people aren't even allowed to go out in Lordaeron Keep - the thought of residing in it, which undead NPCs do routinely in-game as you can still see with the time-dragon, fills Elsie with extreme fright that can only be the product of the police state she retroactively occupied. The bits about how there's a quest literally called Lordaeron concerning their claim being based on their ties to the land in life, that even Dark Rangers talk about reclaiming Lordaeron being a goal and so forth only lends to this, but veers off-topic.

    Torching a human isn't really all that aside given that humans have been their #1 baddie after Arthas and the main competitor for their land - hence the bit about how they aren't monsters, since that's the basis for their claim on Lordaeron being dismissed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk
    and it would have been fine if they stuck to that. but following sylvanas and her mad schemes made them lose sight of that fact. Calia strikes me at least being someone who would look to helping the forsaken regain their home instead of trying to spread undeath onto everyone else. She is the last remaining menethil after all
    Sylvanas was their leader at the time who decided not to bother further, since that was the extent she could push it. The stage was set for this to be a plot point too, since Varian made a point of 'containing' her after Mists. It's just dropped plotlines, they could and in fact did have Sylvanas be content with this before because not rocking the boat extended her chances of not dying. This is one bit that still remains in her BTS characterization, since she only judges war necessary because Varian kicked the bucket. Hopefully, though not very likely, she'll get a story that explains the point where she decided that it'd be a better bet to feed everyone to Mueh'zala, if only for the sake of continuity.

    Calia cleansing Lordaeron is likely to be the big gesture that gets her the seat officially, and if it doesn't happen it'd be weird, since she has Jaina on call and should be able to freeze the plague like she did the first time. That and our boy Il'gynoth says she'll claim the vacant throne.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-10-18 at 07:34 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  11. #31
    So they should move a ingame event which is based and that coincide with a irl event to another time ? maybe we should move Christmas event to 1 aug also or maybe middle of july.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    If anything it reinforces BTS. We ARE the forsaken. It's not a celebration of Lordaeron culture at all, it's a celebration to reinforce forsaken culture. The new culture that they built around her. Channel your feelings of tragedy and vengeance towards our enemies. Burn this giant human effigy and paint your face with its ashes...

    Pig out on candy, dress in the occasional silly costume...



    Culminating in a giant deathwing pinata that we punch in the face. I can get behind this.
    Dwarves get first crack!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    So they should move a ingame event which is based and that coincide with a irl event to another time ? maybe we should move Christmas event to 1 aug also or maybe middle of july.
    You never heard of Christmas in July?



    - - - Updated - - -
    @Super Dickmann If Blizzard is creatively stifling themselves to creating fictional Holiday content that must be related to real world holidays, they're really missing out on capitalizing on actual in-lore events that could be even more fun than "Christmas Veil."

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    If Blizzard is creatively stifling themselves to creating fictional Holiday content that must be related to real world holidays, they're really missing out on capitalizing on actual in-lore events that could be even more fun than "Christmas Veil."
    They are, but that's pretty par for the course. Like, let's remember that the reason why Daughter of the Sea hit as well as it did is because it's one of the very, very few in-setting songs and thus bits of culture we've seen.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Since last years hallows end, the forsaken have lost their home by sylvanas
    Do you think they would have prefered if Alliance burned it instead?
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  15. #35
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    I except blizzard to revamp it because it's yet another example ingame that totally rips apart the flimsy sweeping re characterization of the entire Forsaken Golden tried to shove into Before the Storm.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Forsaken WERE evolving. Back in Cataclysm, when they actualy tried to become a power, instead of sad sacks rotting together with their old homes.

    https://www.wowhead.com/quest=24982/the-new-forsaken

    THIS was the manifesto of the Forsaken, this was their evolution, before some dumb cunt had to retcon them so that she could "understand them better".
    It's pretty easy to understand them once you retcon them to be how you understand them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    They are, but that's pretty par for the course. Like, let's remember that the reason why Daughter of the Sea hit as well as it did is because it's one of the very, very few in-setting songs and thus bits of culture we've seen.
    I'd say lament of the highborne was better.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    maybe a little, guess part of me enjoys seeing how upset its making these group of players who are weeping over the thought of their favorite race losing its emo and edgy identity. It won't of course, and fact your getting so upset over it just makes it cringy to watch.
    Not at all ironic in light of your thirty billion threads complaining about Thrall's direction And do share your sources indicating that the Forsaken won't lost their identity when Blizzard just pushed the unification upon the Horde as a whole and are pushing two Alliance characters as the two new important "Forsaken" to fill Sylvanas' void instead of using actual Forsaken characters for that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    However I stand on saying I would sooner see forsaken progress into something different then the same old shit its been for decades now, and fact you don't want that to at least see another way for the forsaken to be is just mind numbing. I find forsaken the least appealing race because they are just the same thing they've always been, so it actually gives me something to look forward to if they make them into something different.
    Yes, please do show off your ignorance about the Forsaken some more. Why not add the "all Forsaken revolved around Sylvanas and they had no internal dissent" falsehood again (only to be disproved immediately, desperately try to move the goalposts and attempt to handwave away why certain dissenters don't count and still fail to make a legit argument) as well?

    And please do also continue to pat yourself on the back and get on that high horse of yours on how amazingly pro-change you are and then continue beating that dead straw-horse you constructed of how people criticizing this direction are against change in general rather than this specific change for very specific reason. It's oh, so very convincing. Especially in light of you just admitting you're doing it all out of spite (not that there was much doubt about it before).


    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    dude.. haven't you figured out yet that kind of methodology in warcraft just doesn't last? Having a race that just wants to conquer and dominate just fails every time
    But it didn't last because the Forsaken stopped their expansion in 4.0 and then focused on building their kingdom, with Sylvanas providing almost no support to Garrosh's war with the exception of the campaigns where it was specifically requested. Again, you're utterly ignorant about the topic you're trying to argue about, making it blatantly clear it's not just "a little" of your motivation behind flooding the forum with Forsaken-related threads, it's all of it. Also, would you look at that, already moving the goalposts entirely away from your claim how they haven't been changing. Who'd have guessed /s


    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Exactly. Sylvanas is displayed as having the upper hand both in military terms and during the Mak'gora. But she chooses to gtfo altogether just because Sadfang ruined her makeup. It was incredibly stupid and contrived, even for BfA standards.
    Especially since whooping five minutes later the loyalist conclusion revealed Sylvanas' plans and noping out of the plot instead of letting the Horde fight Anduin's forces ran contrary to that plot. BfA is such a mess...


    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Calia cleansing Lordaeron is likely to be the big gesture that gets her the seat officially, and if it doesn't happen it'd be weird, since she has Jaina on call and should be able to freeze the plague like she did the first time. That and our boy Il'gynoth says she'll claim the vacant throne.
    I mean, I doubt Forsaken care much about cold, but freezing the Blight isn't exactly a permanent solution. Besides, Forsaken already do have methods of cleaning Blight as long as it's not an abnormally strong strain.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2019-10-18 at 10:03 PM.
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  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Man I can't wait until the lightening of the Wickerman is changed to be symbolic of the Forsaken being lightforged at Calia's command. Truly the Forsaken will feel free after they are forcefully shackled to the Light because the Princess who abandoned them said so.
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  19. #39
    Honestly to me the fact that this holiday did not receive updates this year, unlike Brewfest, is telling.

    My guess is that next year, the forsaken will have a new home and new ceremony.
    So changing it this year, for one year only after which the situation would change, would be silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Someone at BioWare said it best a couple of years ago:
    "You could give the player a [Magic Hat] that would give them the exact gaming experience they ever wanted, and they would still complain about the colour of the hat."

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