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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by jzhbee View Post
    I will say, as a man who enjoys Kael'thas' character, I was kind of upset about his treatment in TBC. They did kind of ruin his character arc.

    But OP cannot say all WoW lore was objectively ruined (at that point).
    They did Kael so wrong. The coolest character in WoW was defaced.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    That's fine if you didn't like TBC, but I completely disagree with you on all fronts. TBC was the first expansion where it was actually viable to have alts. What made TBC great was that it still had the same pacing as classic, but more variety between 10 and 25 man raids. As fun as 40 man raids can be, they aren't as good as 10/25.
    I agree 100% that 10/25 raid sizes are better than 40 man, but the rewards in Classic raiding are way more fulfilling. Isn't that the main reason players raid?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by EbonBehelit- View Post
    What do you mean 10 levels are less than 60?! What a rort!
    Vanilla 1-60 is also doable in under a week, by the way.

    Granted, the Blood Elves have never made much sense in the Horde, but they were added specifically to fix faction balance issues. The Horde was apparently seriously undermanned by the end of Vanilla.

    Not by as much as you'd think. Believe it or not, aesthetics matter more than racials for the vast majority of players. Racials aren't going to decide games below gladiator-level play anyway.

    [snip, snip, snip]

    And people say the same thing about Classic. Denying that there are merits to TBC is the same thing as saying that only fools could still like Vanilla.
    ^^ this. And you get Blood Elves!!!

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post

    I agree 100% that 10/25 raid sizes are better than 40 man, but the rewards in Classic raiding are way more fulfilling. Isn't that the main reason players raid?
    I feel like if players are only raiding for gear then they're doing it for the wrong reason. Otherwise, people wouldn't beat their heads on Mythic bosses for weeks on end.

    It's a feeling of accomplishment, not material reward.

    In a 40 man raid, fewer individuals got gear anyway. And the tier pieces were also unusable by a good amount of specs.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    Perception was by far the best pvp racial in the game...

    ú

    yeah cos onyxia attunement isnt grindy at all...



    how else would you get gear for arena?



    doesnt have to be out for a year in classic TBC tho.



    it was more of a perfect imbalance outside of a few classes

    every class besides maybe shamans had a rank1 viable comp, and shamans had 5v5

    plus you could play only dps comps unlike now.

    and arena is what gives TBC a lot of replayability, and is why it wont go boring quick.

    I'm just biding my time till I can arena again in the best expansion for it.
    Onyxia attunement isn’t a grind. It’s a long questline.

    Nothing like mop which was “do these same 4 dailies every day... hey, you’re honored! Good news, now you can do 8 dailies!”
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    yeah cos onyxia attunement isnt grindy at all...
    LOL, I am waiting to hear what your definition of a grind is then if you think that the ony attunement (which is a series of unique quests) is a grind.

  6. #46
    I don't act like Classic is the perfect game. Smaller raid sizes are better. I am just not convinced playing TBC nowadays will be half as fun as some remember. TBC was too heavily raid focused.
    A large part of the appeal of Classic is that it is so different than the expansions. There is no MMO on the market like it.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post
    Have you ever thought about bringing back some of the old expansions.

    You think you do, but you don't.

    TBC shares a lot in common with retail. You can still play through outland and do timewalking stuff. You can't replay Vanilla WoW on retail. Vanilla is very different from the expansions. I agree with J. Allen Brack. His reply was about the expansions, not Vanilla specifically. He literally said TBC and he is right.
    The fact that you're comparing BC to Timewalking shows what little you actually know about BC, just going to ignore the long run ons in your first post because most of them are wrong lol.
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    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post
    TBC shares a lot in common with retail. You can still play through outland and do timewalking stuff. You can't replay Vanilla WoW on retail. Vanilla is very different from the expansions. Especially considering players would be transferring their max level characters. The design decisions that plague Battle for Azeroth were born in The Burning Crusade.

    Bland and boring Outland leveling that can be finished in a week.

    Faction imbalance issues that were prevalent when Blood Elves joined the Horde.

    Horde racials even more op than Alliance. If you think population imbalance is bad on classic pvp servers, well imagine tbc.

    TBC sort of ruined Warcraft lore. It was destroyed in The Burning Crusade.

    Being stuck on a 7 zone continent, with zones that were often empty like Blade's Edge Mountains.

    Flying mounts killed off World PvP and shrunk the 7 zone continent to an even smaller size.

    Remeber how grindy the attunements were just to do a raid.

    Uncreative TBC dungeons. Wings and hallways full of copy paste.

    Imbalanced Arena. Imagine nowadays with all the min maxing. Players will just play meta comps.

    Remember how disruptive Resilience was to World PvP. It rendered many dps specs unviable.

    Gear vendors. A RPG where you buy all your gear off of a merchant in town.

    Daily quests inflating the economy. Repetitive and timegated.

    Remember how everyone on both factions flew in circles around Shattrah all day.

    Remember how awful and boring Shattrah was as a capital city.

    Remember what a chore raiding Black Temple for 1 year was or how mundane Hyjal was with the trash pulls.

    I just don't see the appeal for TBC. Nostalgia is a real thing you know.
    1. so could vanilla, i got to 60 just over a week after and i didnt hardcore as others
    2. faction imbalance was vanilla, alliance outdid horde all over, until blood elves came along and balanced things, tbc it was very balanced
    3. nah, not really, both factions were very common
    4. lolol and vanilla didnt? "Hey now this boss, now this boss, then this boss! why? cause we can"
    5. yeah sorta like vanilla where your stuck hanging around in eastern plaguelands, burning steppes, silithus, and winterspring...
    6. yeah no, world pvp was killed off once BG's came out
    7. LOLOLOL your complaining about attunements? are you even playing classic my dude!?
    8. full of copy/paste.. so like... most of vanilla?
    9. yeah... and?
    10. wait so now world pvp existed? what? also omfg many dps specs unviable! that never happened in vanilla... wait...
    11. yeah, sorta like classic... where you buy alot of gear off vendors... pvp, the nax gear vendors, also isnt this something people are crying about? no vendors on live
    12. daily quests didnt inflate the economy... also repetitive...? welcome to wow dude, especially classic
    13. yeah, remember how everyone sits AFK in their major city right now? I can go get a screenshot of atleast 50 people just afk infront of the ironforge bank
    14. lol shattrah was a million times cooler then any current city.
    15. you are literally describing vanilla my dude, tons and tons and tons of trash, and raiding the same raid even though its been out for a year, cause you still need gear for some people, and legendaries.
    16. and the best of all "I just don't see the appeal for TBC. Nostalgia is a real thing you know." a round of applause people. It made me laugh out loud, i knew this was a troll but i am waiting for the carpet cleaning and stuff to be done so not much else i can do while i sit outside waiting.

  9. #49
    I truly loved TBC and I felt like compared to Classic that TBC was a functional game with almost every spec actually being viable while in Classic it was not fully functional and the gearing system was quite sucky too.

    I tried out Classic for few hours and honestly it have been the most boring experience I have ever put myself through but I would give TBC a shot once again if I get the chance as I truly enjoyed the game way more back then.

    But you are free to your opinion about TBC being bad but I highly disagree.

  10. #50
    TBC was so much better than vanilla ever was. Itemization was better, the raids were better, the raiding scene was the best it ever have been. TBC wasn't about leveling. It was about getting to 70 and start raiding. The focus was 100% raiding. If they managed to make TBC servers and keep that kind of difficulty and progression we had then, it would be great. Classic is all about leveling, the end game is easy and the itemization and class design is horrible. TBC improved on all of that. Sure they didn't make a new Naxxramas, but Sunwell was close. People were getting better, gearing up was better because the itemization was better, they improved on many of the flaws vanilla had in that regard. More and more spec got viable as well, of course not perfect either, but way better than what it was.

    TBC is the better version of vanilla. For those who liked dungeons and raiding, like me. Great times! And if you loved the leveling and exploring vanilla had, sure, Classic must be great.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post
    I don't act like Classic is the perfect game. Smaller raid sizes are better. I am just not convinced playing TBC nowadays will be half as fun as some remember. TBC was too heavily raid focused.
    A large part of the appeal of Classic is that it is so different than the expansions. There is no MMO on the market like it.
    I like raid focused. I prefer end game PvE. I don't particularly enjoy leveling like some appear to.

    Why are you convinced that there's something wrong with that?
    Classic IS different. So is TBC, and WotLK.
    Classic's "difference" was sometimes not for the better. It was a game that made no intention to balance a majority of the specs. That's definitely different. But that doesn't mean it's good.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post

    TBC piggybacked off of Vanilla. TBC population didn't grow because of TBC, but because WoW itself had millions of new players joining. Why do you think growth stopped in WOTLK.
    Arthas died and everything that vanilla, tbc and wrath was piggybacking off ended. So when the peak happened just before ICC and the leveling off people realised "Wait the story that we cared about from WC3 is over." and stopped joining in numbers.

    That said as of now I am for TBC servers. Hell I'll say this, when a new expansion is released create servers for people to stay in expansion X. Regardless of if it is BC/Wrath/Cata/MoP/WoD/Legion/BFA/curse of the tuskar people.
    Last edited by Kallisto; 2019-10-18 at 08:11 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post
    I can't believe the fox race. Doesn't seem like it belongs in WoW. Yet, is retail even wow anymore at this point.
    yet a cow race and as you are a "maniac" of, a dog race, also a panda race, and a short people race. they all belong. but a fox race!? too far.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    TBC was so much better than vanilla ever was. Itemization was better, the raids were better, the raiding scene was the best it ever have been. TBC wasn't about leveling. It was about getting to 70 and start raiding. The focus was 100% raiding. If they managed to make TBC servers and keep that kind of difficulty and progression we had then, it would be great. Classic is all about leveling, the end game is easy and the itemization and class design is horrible. TBC improved on all of that. Sure they didn't make a new Naxxramas, but Sunwell was close. People were getting better, gearing up was better because the itemization was better, they improved on many of the flaws vanilla had in that regard. More and more spec got viable as well, of course not perfect either, but way better than what it was.

    TBC is the better version of vanilla. For those who liked dungeons and raiding, like me. Great times! And if you loved the leveling and exploring vanilla had, sure, Classic must be great.
    The itemization in TBC was way more linear. The classes became more homogeneous. In PvP many classes were limited to one spec.

    The overemphasis on Raid content is what hurt WoW in the long run. Blizzard pours way too much effort into raids instead of adding other types of endgame content. Just look at BFA.
    Last edited by Worgenmaniac; 2019-10-18 at 08:13 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post
    I don't act like Classic is the perfect game. Smaller raid sizes are better. I am just not convinced playing TBC nowadays will be half as fun as some remember. TBC was too heavily raid focused.
    A large part of the appeal of Classic is that it is so different than the expansions. There is no MMO on the market like it.
    What is this lobbying crap tbh? you're acting the exact way some were before classic was a thing. Why do you even care about whether they release tbc or not?

    Inb4 OP is actually desperate for classic+ and is trying hard to try and derail tbc , be honest there's truth in what I'm saying amirite?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Arthas died and everything that vanilla, tbc and wrath was piggybacking off ended. So when the peak happened just before ICC and the leveling off people realised "Wait the story that we cared about from WC3 is over." and stopped joining in numbers.
    Not to mention after Wrath we had Cata, which had problems with itself, too.

    I'm not of the opinion Cata was a bad expansion. Dragon Soul was a bad raid tier, though.

    Blizzard promised to go back to the more hard end game content after the snooze fest that was non-heroic WotLK raids. Many players who started in Wrath (commonly known as Wrath Babies) were alienated by this more hardcore approach. After getting the cool difficult dungeons nerfed, they then started unsubbing in droves.

    But yeah, the WC3 story was pretty much over after Fall of the Lich King.

  17. #57
    Make after 4 years TBC expansion for players they want to play again the raids and classic arena who cares. All the others can play the new retail wow or just can have life finally with kids and wife and a real job.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post
    I bet TBC was pretty fun 12-13 years ago. I just don't think it will be like how you remember. It is very watered down compared to Vanilla.
    I bet Vanilla was pretty fun 14-15 years ago. I just don't think it will be like how you remember. It is very watered down compared to Retail wow.

  19. #59
    Bland and boring Outland leveling that can be finished in a week.

    Leveling is never super exciting, but Outlands did make it more interesting than Classic. Plus it still had some challenge to it, which was pretty much gone by WoTLK.

    Faction imbalance issues that were prevalent when Blood Elves joined the Horde.

    I'm assuming you meant numbers wise? BE hardly did that, people typically stacked one faction on a server and then think they're tough on open world PvP because there is a 5:1 ratio in their favor, BE's hardly changed that.

    I always thought that BE evened things out some, not in raw numbers, but in the player base. Horde now had a a "cute race" that would attract more people who care about character looks (potentially more casual), RPers (as Silvermoon became an RP hub in some places). In classic, a lot of what I saw was go Horde if you like organized PvP, go Alliance if like organized PvE. This is very general, but I noticed more of a shift in BC.


    Horde racials even more op than Alliance. If you think population imbalance is bad on classic pvp servers, well imagine tbc.


    Population balance is bad anyways, because people rarely want an even server, so they check populations and roll where they have a huge advantage in World PvP or in just have a health population of people to PvE and PvP with.

    TBC sort of ruined Warcraft lore. It was destroyed in The Burning Crusade.

    I disagree, with one exception, the resurrection of Kael'thas was bleh. Lore took a huge hit in Cata with all the goofy quests and changing of the lore. It was destroyed in WoD with the alternative timeline crap.

    Being stuck on a 7 zone continent, with zones that were often empty like Blade's Edge Mountains.

    Not even sure what you're getting at here.. at least you didn't have to worry about boats/zeppelins. BEM was difficulty to navigate until you had flying, but I'd hardly call it empty, especially with the level 70 hub in the upper area.

    Flying mounts killed off World PvP and shrunk the 7 zone continent to an even smaller size.

    Flying didn't kill world PvP, I remember plenty of world PvP at the Hellfire Towers and Halaa and around daily/quest/dungeon hubs. The pvp objectives in Terokkar and Zangarmarsh were pretty meh though and usual empty, but you could find smaller PvP there as well. Also, how is a smaller land size bad for PvP? It funnels the population versus spreading it out a ton.

    Remeber how grindy the attunements were just to do a raid.

    Yes, and it showed dedication. You couldn't just join TBC 8 months in to the expansion, collect some catch up gear, and go into BT. Some may see this as bad, but it made you join a guild/group of friends, accomplish tasks together, etc.

    Uncreative TBC dungeons. Wings and hallways full of copy paste.

    Need some examples to respond to this, not sure what you're referring to.

    Imbalanced Arena. Imagine nowadays with all the min maxing. Players will just play meta comps.

    It was no different back then, good luck climbing in 2's for example if you weren't SL lock and Resto druid. You hit a ceiling eventually. Meta comps have been around forever and it isn't like people had no clue what was strong back then. The only difference now is you can roll it from the start (if your focus was arena mainly) and not have to reroll.

    Remember how disruptive Resilience was to World PvP. It rendered many dps specs unviable.

    I don't. I remember it meant PvPers didn't have to always do top-end PvE raiding for the best PvP gear though...they could actually focus on PvP, which gave the best PvP gear (shocker).

    Gear vendors. A RPG where you buy all your gear off of a merchant in town.

    I'll take gear vendors where you can select what you want after working/grinding towards it, versus the RNG loot boxes they have now. It also allowed some guaranteed drops over time, which helps for those that aren't lucky with drops/rolls.

    Daily quests inflating the economy. Repetitive and timegated.

    I'll give you this one, it was the start of the era dailies, instead of repeatable turn-ins (classic) or encouraging other forms of making money. It is a system that time gates (whereas turn ins or rep grinds through mob killing can be done as much or as little as you like).
    A counterpoint however though, is it made hubs for world pvp and gave people something to do that don't just pure grinding of mobs/dungeons.

    Remember how everyone on both factions flew in circles around Shattrah all day.

    Are you saying there was nothing to do? Any main town has people hanging out, talking, forming groups, waiting for something. Shatt was no different, but I don't remember doing "laps" like I did in Legion - Dalaran because I was bored and/our just sitting in queue all the time.

    Remember how awful and boring Shattrah was as a capital city.

    No? It was interesting with Aldor/Scyer sections and being in the same place as the opposite faction I thought.

    Remember what a chore raiding Black Temple for 1 year was or how mundane Hyjal was with the trash pulls.

    Hyjal was bleh, I'll give you that. The only raid I didn't like in BC. Having to re-do the trash waves each wipe just made it tedious, but the bosses and the layout were interesting so it wasn't a total bust.

    BT was great, but yes any raid gets boring after a year. Also remember BT was released and almost nobody could even go yet because they were still working on Kael'thas, so almost nobody was in BT for the full 11 months until Sunwell came out. Also, this time around (if it happens) they would likely release it a bit earlier as that raid isn't being developed and people will be going through the content at a faster pace.

    I just don't see the appeal for TBC. Nostalgia is a real thing you know.

    It isn't for everybody, but I'd certainly play TBC over Classic and especially retail WoW in it's current form. It won't be the same as original TBC and as mentioned, people will level and raid and a faster pace having all the knowledge and experience, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun still.

  20. #60
    BC was bad, yes. Not as bad as vanilla, though.

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