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  1. #1

    AP system in 9.0

    In Legion we had the AP for artifacts, and in BFA we had the AP for necks. How would you like to see the AP system moving forward?

    Should Blizzard stick to the same AP formula we've all grown with, or alter it, or remove it?

  2. #2
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    I want it gone I don’t need an annoying grind.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Archmage Xaxxas's Avatar
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    Knowing I have this important item I can't/won't invest the time into finalizing it is just a tad lame.

    I enjoy knowing all my less than par gear is at least complete and as strong as it gets until I replace it.
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    For Azeroth!

  4. #4
    I hope, along with mission tables, it goes the way of the dinosaurs and never ever returns in any shape or form.

  5. #5
    I hope it stays but is brought back to having some depth and interest to it, like it did in Legion. For that matter I also hope mission tables go back to Legion or WoD customization and complexity, they are so shallow right now.

  6. #6
    I don't think I can go through another pointless AP grind for a third time. If Blizz go down that path I might have to step away/spend more time on Classic

  7. #7
    It can stay if I get to keep the doodad beyond the expansion.

  8. #8
    Whatever it is - make it be done after a week.

    This fucking stupid 2 year long perma grind for fucking stupid 2% stamina increases per level are just absolutely retarded - even worse when it gets to fucking 0/50 Concordance with 0.5% dmg increases per level again.

    Gimme a fucking talent or glyph tree, lemme work through it and be done with it.

  9. #9
    They need to remove the "AP system" from the game, its a terrible grind.

  10. #10
    There will absolutely be some type of AP grind. It keeps people on the treadmill playing for the tiny percentage increase in power. MAUs are the name of the game and this is how they keep people subbed.

    I hope it goes back towards some type of talent tree like the artifact weapon. Yeah, while some of them are tiny increases, I have always liked completing and finishing talent trees. I didn't like concordance, personally, but I know why it was there.

  11. #11
    AP gone and essences carried forward is what I want. Aside from the alt fiasco, I think essences are basically the perfect system or as close as we’ll get to a perfect end game progression system. It allows players to grind out each essence at their own pace with very little to no RNG. Each essence has a different grind and that’s also great imo. With this system, AP doesn’t need to be carried forward at all. Getting an essence to rank 3/4 actually feels really good because it acts as a long term goal similar to old gear progression, getting an arbitrary stamina increase or literally nothing for leveling your neck is extremely annoying and boring. I don’t want to grind 50k AP from 63>64 and get literally nothing. I’ll gladly grind rep to exalted or 50k honor as long as there’s a goal in mind but AP wears me out when you have multiple neck levels with huge AP requirements that give you basically nothing.

    So that’s what I’d wanna see. Essences carried forward. Old ones can be put into a feat of strength category or something along with maybe getting 1 visual essence slot that you can use to see your old rank 4 essences if you care about that sort of thing. Then new ones would be added every expac/patch, they can get pretty creative with these.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2019-10-16 at 05:24 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    In Legion we had the AP for artifacts, and in BFA we had the AP for necks. How would you like to see the AP system moving forward?

    Should Blizzard stick to the same AP formula we've all grown with, or alter it, or remove it?
    An AP-style system is going to be a part of every expansion going forward in some form. We just need to accept it. People who say they 'want ap gone' are sticking their head in the sand like fools.... its going to be there.

    If the next expansion is Dragon Isles, maybe it'll be related to powering up some relic so we can recharge the Dragon Aspects with their immortality.

  13. #13
    Just remove it and focus on fleshing out classes.

  14. #14
    The AP grind was designed as a solution to people crying that there was nothing to do in WoD. If you remove it, you get WoD 2.0. Either there is an end game grind or you get WoD. Choose one. You cant say no to both.

    You are either going to get people crying there is nothing to do or people crying about a grind. People will cry either way so crying is pointless.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2019-10-16 at 05:27 AM.

  15. #15
    AP is the worst grinding feature invented so far. It's literally just leveling past level cap. It makes keeping up with other players harder for people who can't invest much time into the game on daily basis and makes twink leveling at the start of the expansion almost obsolete.

    It's an abomination sprung from Diablo 3 paragon system, that was ported very poorly to WoW. It's literally a daily chore for a game. And if you manage to reach the cap, it literally tells you that everything you do from now on, untill the cap is raised again, is wasted, because every activity is tied to AP gathering.

    If they need a system that offers constant reward and progression, besides just playing the game and doing activities out of fun or competition, they should design it somewhat similar to emissary cache's. You should unlock a 10.000 XP bar after you reach max level, that you can fill repeatedly for rewards, like gear and rare chance for mounts and pet's. You can fill one bar per week, but if you haven't filled it, it will carry over to the next week up to 2 times. So you can basically fill up to 3 bar's in one week if you haven't played for 2 weeks.
    All activities, like completing dungeon run's, doing WQ's ect. will contribute XP to the bar.

    That way you will be rewarded each week for the overall activities you played and if you fail to fill the bar, you will be able to catch up to it next week by investing more time into the game.
    Last edited by RyudoTFO; 2019-10-16 at 05:36 AM.
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  16. #16
    Dreadlord Pigglix's Avatar
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    I rather have a grind to chase all over the xpack than getting all reps to exalted and then waiting for the raid day /yawn

    The only thing i would accept over a "artifact grind" would be if blizzard add an absurd amount of toy/mounts/mogs that need a special currency to buy them and said currency shouldnt be tied only to pvp.

    And keep adding them over the patches , not something that you could be done over in 2-3 months and go back to waiting for raid days/weekly m+ run for the chest.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The AP grind was designed as a solution to people crying that there was nothing to do in WoD. If you remove it, you get WoD 2.0. Either there is an end game grind or you get WoD. Choose one. You cant say no to both.

    You are either going to get people crying there is nothing to do or people crying about a grind. People will cry either way so crying is pointless.
    Why cant it be like literaly every expansion before wod where we had no crappy ap grind but still had meaningful and fun content. I would honestly prefer wod 2.0 to bfa 2.0. At least I could do the things I like and ignore what I dislike. Islands and warfronts are boring genocide the mob grinds and WQ are reused leveling quests like before and both are unavoidable unless you want to gimp yourself.

  18. #18
    The AP grind allows those that want to put the time and effort into the game to get more power with more effort. With the AK system, it allows everyone else to feasible catch up over time to where not only the gap between players who put in effort and those who don't shrinks, but also everyone eventually ends up at the same power level over time. That by itself isn't a bad thing.

    The issue comes with the layering of systems that individually may seems solid but overlapping cause conflicts or unintended consequences. For example, when it comes to our artifact items, what's the difference between Legion and BfA? It's the relic/trait system and power/essence system. In Legion, the amount of effort to unlock all your traits on your weapon was pretty easy, and the main time sink was the "endless" trait that gave you an increasing proc buff. The relic/Azerite power systems are pretty analogous, especially during Argus and the trait trees on relics and their potentially power imbalances. In BfA, leveling your neck unlocks not only Azerite powers on your armor but also essence slots... and probably what's eating most people is that essences are a separate grind of their own. Now this wouldn't be much of an issue if the power supplied by essences was rather limited even by ranks, but the power increases are so huge in some cases that w/o proper essences at rank 3 you don't feel like you're a complete class. This is where alts come into play and why people feel BfA isn't really alt friendly (especially compared to Legion): instead of just one grind you need to perform multiple grinds on an alt, one of which does not have any sort of catch-up mechanic.

    In an effort to keep this post as short as possible, I'll just leave that sentiment at that, although there are other facets just on those two systems alone and many more possibilities to consider when you layer in other systems in the game. My general point is this: the AP system by itself isn't bad, the layering and interaction of multiple systems is what drives people to love or loathe systems.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    They need to remove the "AP system" from the game, its a terrible grind.
    The Chinese Overlords want their Asian MMO grinding model adopted into WoW, and have done so since Legion. You can be damn sure it'll be back in 9.0 .

    Got to keep the MAU high after all!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    In Legion we had the AP for artifacts, and in BFA we had the AP for necks. How would you like to see the AP system moving forward?

    Should Blizzard stick to the same AP formula we've all grown with, or alter it, or remove it?
    "Infinite leveling at endgame" idea is way too attractive, as some sort of "experience" - is good small reward for any activity, even the most pointless one, like just killing mobs again, again and again. Blizzard would never abandon it. Blizzard several systems in the past. Badges, gold. None of them was "grindy" enough to suit their demands - i.e. to become infinite grind. Only change in BFA in comparison with Legion - Blizzard have tried to shrink mandatory part of grind, i.e. one, that gives you perks. Problem is - it's pointless now, if you aren't chasing some world first or some other competitive things. I just don't bother about it, because I get it for free via catch up mechanic. Blizzard tried to implement directly grindable essences to compensate, but I don't bother anyway. Long term grind - isn't what I like.

    I prefer steady progression, that has strictly set time frame. 3 things should go to hell. Go to hell, virtual casino RNG. Go to hell, endless grind. Go to hell, time gating. It's Sisyphean task and therefore it's pointless. Only rewards, that matter now - are account wide rewards, that stay viable forever, like transmogs, pets (I don't play pokemon though), mounts, heirlooms, toys (don't care about them too).
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2019-10-16 at 06:01 AM.

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