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  1. #21
    Can't really say I agree, most people don't want to play MMOs anymore due to the time needed to play, and how it's not a casual game like Fifa or such.

    Anything is going to look good compared to Retail WoW because it's turned completely into garbage over the years and bled pretty much the whole playerbase as a result, not hard to make something look good when you compare it to that. If they released some sub number info for Classic it would be nice.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    WoW classic gave a proof of that. Even with all its flaws and age WoWclassic beats the cr@p out of retail at both fronts: mmo, and rpg. Current retail is barely either.
    Do you think 9.0 (and onwards) could be less of BfA and more vanilla/classic-like? Or we are past the point of "no return"?
    if we are making joke statement, then reducing amount of layers means that classic is going to die really soon too, it's bleeding players af

  3. #23
    This is a genre that will bide its time, until such time comes that it will wake up again. The MMORPG has arguably existed since 1978 when the first MUD crawled out of the void and it has proven to be one of the most resilient genres in gaming, surviving in almost complete obscurity for a very long time, until WoW came onto the scene in Nov of 2004. I'd say it's doing pretty well, given those facts.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by smityx View Post
    I declare the fortnite genre dead. So it is written so it shall be so.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    WoW classic gave a proof of that. Even with all its flaws and age WoWclassic beats the cr@p out of retail at both fronts: mmo, and rpg. Current retail is barely either.
    Do you think 9.0 (and onwards) could be less of BfA and more vanilla/classic-like? Or we are past the point of "no return"?
    Classic is vastly inferior rpg wise.

  6. #26
    The MMO genre is just back to where it was before WOW released, a niche market that is neither dying nor growing. Until developers start making games that are good rather then just competing with WOW things will stay as they are.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    i guess i am stepping into troll den, but... how exactly you measure classic success?
    Probably because his favorite balding streamer is still playing it.
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  8. #28
    The only thing that can save the MMO genre is the amazon lord of the rings MMO. WoW is currently the only MMO with a sizable following, the rest have either been utter failures or have settled with a couple hundred thousand players. All of them seem to be dead as well when it comes to media exposure like twitch and youtube.

    Personally though, i believe WoW will be around as long as blizzard wants it to be. The fanbase is massive, and a lot of people keep coming back just to test the waters. Myself for example, i haven't played WoW in two years, but i'm still a regular on MMO Champion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorish View Post
    i guess i am stepping into troll den, but... how exactly you measure classic success?
    More high pop servers than retail. Overwhelmingly more viewers on twitch than retail. Only a troll(how ironic) would deny that classic has been anything short of a massive success.

    https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...0of%20warcraft
    Last edited by Ulfric Trumpcloak; 2019-10-20 at 10:01 AM.

  9. #29
    Its not really dead, it has been stagnating for a very long time. WoW is barely doing anything new (with BFA basically being Legion 0.5) while other games try so hard to copy WoW. I never like it when one game dominates an entire genre. But people also aren’t willing to give other games a fair shot, since they don’t want to abandon all of their progress that took so much time of their life to get. I think thats also the reason why many BFA players look down on Classic WoW, being so overprotective of their main game.

  10. #30
    The progression based mmorpg genre is “dead”. Why? Because there is only one game to rule them all. No other company is willing to invest money into a possible contender to WoW.

    It’s not how many players willing to play one game or possibly with with FF. It’s about the market. With only one game the market is filled and no one willing to tap in kills a whole genre.
    Last edited by babyback; 2019-10-20 at 10:10 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    "Not dead yet" to quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It's much diminished, however, and there are very few studios getting ready to roll out anything that looks like it could be competitive to World of Warcraft. When there are very few new genre titles in the pipeline it's the next thing to it. The sort of "premium MMO" represented by WoW, FFXIV and some others with a subscription fee and the rest are more or less rumbling along. B2P and F2P titles may or may not be doing well. Personally I love Guild Wars II but the genre is no longer seen as a candidate for a mass-market title and the required investment to create one. The past few years are littered with MMO's that didn't live up to expectations and have either closed down entirely or are rolling along with few if any updates.

    Sincere congratulations to a title like the two Runescapes that are surviving OK apparently on around 100,000 users. That's not dead, but it's not growing either. Same with the genre and its market niche.
    To be fair. Even when there were many more MMO coming out, they didnt tend to do well. If you're measuring success by "new genre titles in the pipeline" then you're chasing a failed metric. It was kinda the joke wasnt it? All those MMO coming out and all of them near instantly folding.


    Now if you want a valid metric look at how many MMO are currently going with sizeable player bases and regular updates. Looking at that metric and right now is likely a much better time in the past: WoW, FFXIV, ESO, GW2, Destiny, and new MMO that do promise more, while rarer, always attract a lot of people (and then subsequently die due to either lacking polish or being p2w).

    You're looking at quantity of games and going "Well it must be on a decline" rather than the popularity of the few games.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmatrix View Post
    The MMO genre is just back to where it was before WOW released, a niche market that is neither dying nor growing. Until developers start making games that are good rather then just competing with WOW things will stay as they are.
    This is really the issue here, the MMO genre has done very little innovation over the past 15 years and is in a period of relative stagnation. When games like WoW have tried to scrape away some of the outdated ideas and concepts to try modernise the game they're immediately hit with massive pushback from the player base. It's left the genre in a place where gaming has moved on without the MMO.

    The other side of the issue is that MMO's are always trying to appeal to a broader audience, offering something for everyone. This means that they've slowly incorporated systems from various other genres over time to keep players interested. MMO's don't really have anything that is exclusive to the genre the way that FPS games have mechanics unique to them, or the way Sports games do, or Simulators etc. They're an amalgamation of several different ideas, mechanics and goals all packaged together.

    Realistically the genre really needs to be broken up into it's constituent parts for them to move forwards as a whole. A smaller scope game that focuses is on delivering high quality Raid Style content exclusively can do a far better job within that niche than if they've got to balance that out with PvP, World Content etc. Trying to deliver a top notch, inovative, experience that delivers on all fronts at the same time is a monumental task that just shouldn't be attempted right now.

  13. #33
    WoW classic didnt revive the MMO genre, WoW classic was a case of people talking about how great vanilla was for years and years (myself included, yay nostalgia?) and blizzard finally releasing their own official servers and the WoW community jumping on it because its new to them, or want something a bit more laid back without worrying about if they can get everything done for the week in retail like its a full time job. Give classic 6 months to a year and we'll see how things look.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    More high pop servers than retail. Overwhelmingly more viewers on twitch than retail. Only a troll(how ironic) would deny that classic has been anything short of a massive success.

    https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...0of%20warcraft
    Your chart shows a spike, which everyone knew would happen, then the numbers go back to nearly what they were before classic released. Your evidence isn't in your favor.

  15. #35
    The only MMORPGs with actual healthy populations are WoW(2004), GW2(2012) and FFXIV(2010) and somewhat ESO(2014)

    when people say the genre is dead they mean nothing significant has come out in past 5 years, and they're absolutely correct

    No triple A company wants to touch MMORPGs anymore because they are just not worth the investment, the genre in mainstream market is dead

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    The only thing that can save the MMO genre is the amazon lord of the rings MMO. WoW is currently the only MMO with a sizable following, the rest have either been utter failures or have settled with a couple hundred thousand players. All of them seem to be dead as well when it comes to media exposure like twitch and youtube.

    Personally though, i believe WoW will be around as long as blizzard wants it to be. The fanbase is massive, and a lot of people keep coming back just to test the waters. Myself for example, i haven't played WoW in two years, but i'm still a regular on MMO Champion.

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    More high pop servers than retail. Overwhelmingly more viewers on twitch than retail. Only a troll(how ironic) would deny that classic has been anything short of a massive success.

    https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...0of%20warcraft

    how many classic high pop vs how many retail high pop? also retail has a lot more server , how do we count them?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Wait, the amazon one is in the LotR universe?
    Amazon has currently two MMO's in the pipeline.
    There is their sandbox MMO "New World" and their is their semi announced LotR MMORPG.
    We've already seen gameplay of the first one, while there isn't much known about the second one. What we kinda know is, that it's going to be
    a themepark MMORPG.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    The only thing that can save the MMO genre is the amazon lord of the rings MMO. WoW is currently the only MMO with a sizable following, the rest have either been utter failures or have settled with a couple hundred thousand players. All of them seem to be dead as well when it comes to media exposure like twitch and youtube.

    Personally though, i believe WoW will be around as long as blizzard wants it to be. The fanbase is massive, and a lot of people keep coming back just to test the waters. Myself for example, i haven't played WoW in two years, but i'm still a regular on MMO Champion.

    - - - Updated - - -



    More high pop servers than retail. Overwhelmingly more viewers on twitch than retail. Only a troll(how ironic) would deny that classic has been anything short of a massive success.

    https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...0of%20warcraft
    as of now (sunday afternoon) on EU EN there is 8full and 15high realms on retail, and zero full and one high on classic, there is 9 marked as "layered" which we can assume are high, which still gives us less high pop realms than retail, and when we consider there is way more retail realms than classic, it clearly shows you are full of shit... as for twitch, its really low after the spike on release, so thats another shitty argument...

  19. #39
    classic only shows what the users realy liked to see , and not what they create today

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    WoW classic gave a proof of that. Even with all its flaws and age WoWclassic beats the cr@p out of retail at both fronts: mmo, and rpg. Current retail is barely either.
    Do you think 9.0 (and onwards) could be less of BfA and more vanilla/classic-like? Or we are past the point of "no return"?
    Nope, looking at the statistics Classic behaves exactly as projected - it was a big spike on launch that decayed to fairly insignificant noise.

    People moved on, for all the rose-tinted goggles it is indeed a fairly inadequate entry in 2019, people got to 60, got their 2 hour MC run and dropped. Many did not even get there because the journey is shit by today's standards.

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