Please stop with the "Hellfire" DK

[Wildberry]

Don't care enough to argue with the people desperately gripping onto a minority of flame/Scourge-related NPCs or a single Azerite ability, but I'll chime in and say: I agree, fire DKs are a bad idea.

The class (much like everything else in-game nowadays) doesn't need more of its core identity undermined. Death Knights have a solid, coherent theme. There's no reason to dilute that for something that's extremely generic, to please a slim minority.

[Kaleredar]

So what if I want a Holy Warlock? Or a Shadow Paladin? Oooh Ooooh Oh a Arcane Demon Hunter!

Because they make as much sense as a Fire DK...A.K.A. none.

Thane kor’thaz was a death knight that used fire. As was alexandros mograine. As is the headless horseman. Numerous san’layn use fire spells. Stratholme, bastion of the undead, is permanently on fire. Player DKs have an Azerite trait that lets them enflame their pet.

There are numerous instances of the scourge and DKs utilizing fire.

[qwerty123456]

I wonder if it will be like Bolvar's way of removing the eternal hunger from death knights.

[Eapoe]

All you people arguing about DKs and fire and here I am thinking Blizzard is full of genius people who got you all so focused on wanting a new fire based spec that you won’t even care when they replace Unholy with it so they can take the abilities and give them to a new Necromancer class.

[Schattenlied]

fire spec's already taken

Didn't stop them from making 2 specs named "Holy", 2 specs named "Protection", 2 specs named "Restoration", and 2 specs named "Frost".

[Thage]

I don't know, this could actually be amazing. Bolvar using the powers of the lich king + the fires engulfing him to create a new breed of death knights would be really interesting.

Given Bolvar's proclivities, I could see a spec themed around the fires of vengeance/retribution working for a 'post-Scourge Death Knight' theme/ethos. It will be sad to see the original death knight starting experience go, though... maybe you can speak to a bronze dragon after creating your fourth-generation* death knight for the opportunity to witness the birth of the Ebon Blade.

*For reference's sake, death knights can pretty neatly be defined by three generations, currently:
-First generation death knights are orc warlocks whose souls inhabit the bodies of fallen human knights. Teron Gorefiend is the best example of the first generation, though there were a number of them active in the First and Second Wars.
-Second generation death knights are those who were directly created by Ner'zhul; Arthas is the most famous of these but all named Death Knight hero units from Warcraft 3 are part of this second generation.
-Third generation death knights are those created by Arthas. This encompasses the largest generation, as it includes both death knights created after Arthas became Lich King as well as the Ebon Blade (both before and after Arthas's death, as they're created using similar methodology). The death knights of Naxxramas, Acherus, and numerous other Scourge strongholds all fall into the third generation unless specifically noted as having come from the second generation.

With this in mind, it stands to reason Bolvar's death knights would be created through sufficiently-different means, thanks in part to the red dragons' fire influencing his magic on some level, that they would be a new generation clearly-delineated from the previous three (which includes currently-existing death knight PCs). This would also open up Death Knight to all playable races, so long as the starter experience is sufficiently evergreen (something monks enjoy as it doesn't take much for a pandaren monk to wash ashore somewhere and start spreading his teachings).

[Swnem]

DK's are all about death and cold. Even blood is already pushing it. Fire DK is a complete travesty.

With that said, i'd give it a try. But it's silly.

[UnluckyAmateur]

fire spec's already taken and Dragonfire isn't deathy enough.

just like how frost was taken?

Also you lack vision

[Kaleredar]

just like how frost was taken?

Also you lack vision

Not only that, they lack basic knowledge of WoW DKs:





And DK tier sets:

[qwerty123456]

DK's are all about death and cold. Even blood is already pushing it. Fire DK is a complete travesty.

With that said, i'd give it a try. But it's silly.

This is funny because: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Death_Knight_(Warcraft_III)
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Death_Knight_(Warcraft_II)

Where do you see any frost abilities? It's almost like Blizzard added frost skills to death knights for WoW as a new person with an icy theme started making them.....

[Kithelle]

In the Scourge, yes, but DKs didn't have frost powers until WoTLK (or vanilla with naxxramas, anyway). and as mentioned in this thread before, the idea of frost DKs was weird for some people when Wotlk debuted, because frost was always more tied to liches than to DKs.
there really is not much sense to DKs being able to control ice powers other than the scourge being based in Northrend, and neither Arthas nor Nerzhul were shown to have frost powers before WoW AFAIK. Now Bolvar at least is shown as having fire powers of some sort, which would give a lore foundation for Fire-DKs as strong as it is for frost-DKs, IMO.

There are so many themes of Frost within the Scourge and DKs like I said....there is absolutely no themes of Fire at all other than a single man who burned by and survived dragon fire.

The sword was called frostmourne, it was the frozen throne, and it was atop icecrown...so there is a lot of wordplay dealing with frost and the home base was on a frozen continent.

But lets take a different approach, Bolvar isn't a death knight like Arthas was before he became Lich King. Where is he going to develop this new fighting style and skillset for something he isn't and probably doesn't want to be. While he is frozen in a block of ice trying to resist a presence and control the Scourge? He is obviously losing or maybe has even lost said battle.

Where does he have the time to develop and practice a new skill set when he is encased in ice?

There just isn't any real logic behind Fire DK's and if a single weapon meant that we're going to get fire DK's then why isn't 2H frost back after we got the Icy Ebon Axe in Legion?

- - - Updated - - -

snip

Oh I'm sorry...a single Death Knight wielded fire...should we also get Holy DKs because one of them wielded Holy powers?

The Headless Horsemen isn't a Death Knight...once again someone else is reach by using examples of Undead that aren't part of the Scourge or Death Knights.

Fiery armor that has a fiery theme in a expansion based heavily on fire like the Firelands for exmaple and Deathwing who spewed...what was it? Oh! Fire!

[qwerty123456]

There are so many themes of Frost within the Scourge and DKs like I said....there is absolutely no themes of Fire at all other than a single man who burned by and survived dragon fire.

The sword was called frostmourne, it was the frozen throne, and it was atop icecrown...so there is a lot of wordplay dealing with frost and the home base was on a frozen continent.

But lets take a different approach, Bolvar isn't a death knight like Arthas was before he became Lich King. Where is he going to develop this new fighting style and skillset for something he isn't and probably doesn't want to be. While he is frozen in a block of ice trying to resist a presence and control the Scourge? He is obviously losing or maybe has even lost said battle.

Where does he have the time to develop and practice a new skill set when he is encased in ice?

There just isn't any real logic behind Fire DK's and if a single weapon meant that we're going to get fire DK's then why isn't 2H frost back after we got the Icy Ebon Axe in Legion?

Read my post above yours. There was literally no frost skills on death knights until wow. Why wouldn't you assume the same thing couldn't/wouldn't happen when a new guy with a different theme took over?

[Kithelle]

Read my post above yours. There was literally no frost skills on death knights until wow. Why wouldn't you assume the same thing couldn't/wouldn't happen when a new guy with a different theme took over?

Like I said in my last post...when does Bolvar has the time to develop a new skillset for Death Knights when he isn't one...while he is frozen in a block of ice trying to control the Scourge while also (failing at) fighting off a evil corruption?

[niztheundead87]

Read my post above yours. There was literally no frost skills on death knights until wow. Why wouldn't you assume the same thing couldn't/wouldn't happen when a new guy with a different theme took over?

Frost DKs' powers come directly from the Lich King. How the Lich King obtained these powers come from his origin.

When Ner'zhul had been captured in the Twisting Nether by Kil'jaeden, his body was viciously torn apart but his spirit was kept intact to feel the full extent of KJ's wrath. Afterwards Ner'zhul was offered one last chance to join the Legion which he reluctantly agreed.

At that point, Kil'jaeden bound Ner'zhul's spirit to a suit of armor, incased him in diamond-hard ice that came from the far reaches of the Twisting Nether, and sent him through the Great Dark Beyond (space, but not the Twisting Nether) until he landed in Northrend, where the ice block then took on the shape of a throne. This infernal ice combined with KJ's demonic power that allowed Ner'zhul's consciousness to expand and influence the environment and nearby creatures is what gave him power over Frost.

Just because you want fire doesn't mean you will get it

[qwerty123456]

Like I said in my last post...when does Bolvar has the time to develop a new skillset for Death Knights when he isn't one...while he is frozen in a block of ice trying to control the Scourge while also (failing at) fighting off a evil corruption?

We know nothing about whats really going on in icecrown and its been years since he took the mantle. Also he doesn't need to know any skills other than how to create death knights. Its the players and npc death knights that do. And where does it say he is failing to fight off an evil corruption? Obviously he isn't going to go evil for quite awhile or maybe never unless Blizzard wants to redo the DK starting area again 10 years from now when we have a dozen more races.

Frost DKs' powers come directly from the Lich King. How the Lich King obtained these powers come from his origin.

When Ner'zhul had been captured in the Twisting Nether by Kil'jaeden, his body was viciously torn apart but his spirit was kept intact to feel the full extent of KJ's wrath. Afterwards Ner'zhul was offered one last chance to join the Legion which he reluctantly agreed.

At that point, Kil'jaeden bound Ner'zhul's spirit to a suit of armor, incased him in diamond-hard ice that came from the far reaches of the Twisting Nether, and sent him through the Great Dark Beyond (space, but not the Twisting Nether) until he landed in Northrend, where the ice block then took on the shape of a throne. This infernal ice combined with KJ's demonic power that allowed Ner'zhul's consciousness to expand and influence the environment and nearby creatures is what gave him power over Frost.

Just because you want fire doesn't mean you will get it

I didn't say I wanted fire. But how ice powers came would be exactly what happened to Bolvar.... Why would ice magically be able to combine but fire not? And again it was the Lich King that had ice powers not death knights.

[cparle87]

I was referring to shadow as a damage type. There is no unholy or death damage type so things related to the undead are classified as shadow. It's not automatically related to the void.

Did you play BFA? I didn't but even I know they've been creating further distinction between the two. The void whispers to Alleria when she is confronted by Sylvanas in one of the comics, and it is constantly spouting out "she's the real enemy." Meaning death. They are two different things, friend

It's called gameplay and story segregation. It's a thing, look it up. Look at all of the things that are classed as nature damage. From roots to poisons to little balls of energy. And, as I have stated numerous times, it has been fully established that you can use multiple cosmic forces at the same time. You seem to keep trying to ignore this.

I've said that Shadow/Void and Undeath are different things a couple of times and yet you keep acting like I'm not and you're needing to correct me. Are you even reading my posts or just glazing over them, assuming I'm wrong, and typing a response.

[niztheundead87]

We know nothing about whats really going on in icecrown and its been years since he took the mantle. Also he doesn't need to know any skills other than how to create death knights. Its the players and npc death knights that do. And where does it say he is failing to fight off an evil corruption? Obviously he isn't going to go evil for quite awhile or maybe never unless Blizzard wants to redo the DK starting area again 10 years from now when we have a dozen more races.





I didn't say I wanted fire. But how ice powers came would be exactly what happened to Bolvar.... Why would ice magically be able to combine but fire not? And again it was the Lich King that had ice powers not death knights.

A)wc1 death knights and wow death knights are different Gildan made the first death Knight from terongon the death Knights we have now were made by the lich king
B)the lich king gave their powers to them
C)there is no more bolvar just the lich king.
D)the fires is what keeping his body from dissolving from the plague that kills both living and undead.

Just because he got burred doesn't mean he gained fire powers out of a sudden

[Swnem]

This is funny because: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Death_Knight_(Warcraft_III)
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Death_Knight_(Warcraft_II)

Where do you see any frost abilities? It's almost like Blizzard added frost skills to death knights for WoW as a new person with an icy theme started making them.....

The frozen throne?!

Icy northrend?!

Frostmourne?!

I said they are all about death and cold, and they are. Even if their warcraft 3 abilities were only death based, the theme of cold was there.

[Synros]

I was being hyperbolic. But the lore does matter to me! Blizzard has been consistently taking a massive dump on their own story and it bothers me because I've spent nearly my entire life with this story.

It's their own story and lore. THEY get to dictate what can and can't happen, not you. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is...

[Kaleredar]

Oh I'm sorry...a single Death Knight wielded fire...should we also get Holy DKs because one of them wielded Holy powers?

A single Death Knight? He was one of the preeminent Death Knights. Zeliek's powers were tied to him being a paladin in life. Kor'Thazz cast fire spells because he was a death knight imbued with the power. The power of fire.

Not to mention... you know, the fact that every deathcharger burns with fire, and leave trails of fire of some description in their wake.

The Headless Horsemen isn't a Death Knight...once again someone else is reach by using examples of Undead that aren't part of the Scourge or Death Knights.

The headless horseman is absolutely a death knight. He was raised by a dreadlord using the same powers that were invested upon arthas and that were used to craft Frostmourne and the helm of damnation.

And he certainly uses fire.

Fiery armor that has a fiery theme in a expansion based heavily on fire like the Firelands for exmaple and Deathwing who spewed...what was it? Oh! Fire!

Yep.

And? Obviously Blizzard didn't think that fire was too "confusing" for the Death Knight theme, seeing as multiple armor sets depict them with fiery accents, including numerous artifact appearances as well.

And neither of those armor sets are from Firelands, by the way.


I'm really seeing no compelling reason to not have fire DKs, seeing as there have been DKs that use fire, scourge units that use fire, scourge inhabited regions thoroughly suffused with fire, and DK sets and items that all have a fiery theme.

So to recap, we have no reason why DKs wouldn't be able to use fire, no reason to suspect they wouldn't be able to be imbued with fire, and no reason that it's outside the theme of their class, especially considering that Bolvar Fordragon is... oh, what was it? Oh yeah! ON FIRE.