Hmm..parents can't agree on their childs gender

[Muajin76]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/26/u...ase/index.html

So....the father says it's a boy, but the mother says the child is a transgender girl. What a sad age we live in where a kid's parents can't decide on what gender their child is.
How is a 7yr old a transgender..?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The American Academy of Pediatrics says that by around age 2, children typically become aware of physical differences between boys and girls. By 3, most can easily identify themselves as one or the other. By 4, "Most children have a stable sense of their gender identity," the AAP says on its Healthy Children website.

The judge ruled that the child "appears comfortable as a male, female, or gender nonspecific."

These two points are pretty important... I would be on the side of the child if they were wanting a change like this, but it seems like its being forced by the mother more than anything...

[Temp name]

I love how they "won't name the 7 year old to protect the child's privacy," but they'll name both their parents, and say they have a twin brother.. I'm willing to bet you could find the child with that information. You could probably do it with half of the information

OT: I feel bad for the child. They either have a mother trying to force him to be a girl, or a father who refuses to accept her for who she is. Glad they got joint custody, but hope they'll revisit the ruling when the child is old enough to decide who they want to live with themselves.

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These two points are pretty important... I would be on the side of the child if they were wanting a change like this, but it seems like its being forced by the mother more than anything...

Also they're 7.. At that age I was playing with both my sisters toys and my brothers toys, and I wouldn't say I'm transgender female. Everyone is different, but at 7 you're barely aware of what biological sex is, much less where you fit in on that spectrum

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I love how they "won't name the 7 year old to protect the child's privacy," but they'll name both their parents, and say they have a twin brother.. I'm willing to bet you could find the child with that information. You could probably do it with half of the information

OT: I feel bad for the child. They either have a mother trying to force him to be a girl, or a father who refuses to accept her for who she is. Glad they got joint custody, but hope they'll revisit the ruling when the child is old enough to decide who they want to live with themselves.

I know, I was cracking up ... "the privacy" yet they announced so many details it should be obvious.

The APP says by the age of 4 a child knows who they are. Whether we want to say that is old enough to decide something, is a different issue.

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Also they're 7.. At that age I was playing with both my sisters toys and my brothers toys, and I wouldn't say I'm transgender female. Everyone is different, but at 7 you're barely aware of what biological sex is, much less where you fit in on that spectrum

You know, I feel that way about my childhood too - but I'm no doctor or scientist, so its really hard for me to argue with them in any fashion.

[Kumorii]

These two points are pretty important... I would be on the side of the child if they were wanting a change like this, but it seems like its being forced by the mother more than anything...

The American Academy of Pediatrics says that by around age 2, children typically become aware of physical differences between boys and girls. By 3, most can easily identify themselves as one or the other. By 4, "Most children have a stable sense of their gender identity," the AAP says on its Healthy Children website.

This feels like they are conflating understanding their biological sex with gender identity. Seems a bit odd to have that much understanding of their own identity when they barely know who they are... hell even adults have issues with differentiate gender identity and biological sex.

[Daedius]

#FirstWorldProblems

Such riveting "news"...

[Derpling]

Pearlclutching by right wing fuckheads aside, the only person that gets to decide on the kid's gender is... the kid. And no, right wing fuckheads, the kid isn't going to go through gender reassignment procedures while they're still a minor, you can stop blubbering about the fall of western civilization or whatever other overreaction to every overblown story about a trans person that the media loves to hype.

[Bigbazz]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/26/u...ase/index.html
How is a 7yr old a transgender..?

It isn't, the parent is just mentally ill.

[PACOX]

Honestly, I think this topic is too deep for a MMO-Champ discussion.

The issue I have with this story is that both parents are wrong. Attempting to argue that gender is binary and you'll find many counter-arguments. Attempt to say someone 'knows' what gender they are as a child. hell as an adult, you'll find many valid counter arguments.

'Gender' is some part cultural construct in its own right, so how doesn't one 'know' before they even know what it means to feel like a man or a woman is beyond me. I know my take on what it means to be a man (and a woman) evolved as a grew older. Masculinity and feminity also vary across cultures. I know plenty of of men who 'acted feminine' as kids, as teens, as adults and don't identify transgendered, I know someone who considered themselves transgendered. I can say the same for women. Woman who adopted 'masculine traits' but still consider themselves women by gender.

I do not think a child who is still learning about the world and nowhere near knowing who they are as a person can decide if they are a binary or non-binary gender. Let alone an adult but at least an adult has the ability to think decisions through and live with the consequences. How many phases have you gone through as a kid?

So I believe its wrong for the mom to try to say the boy (as biology) is transgender. I believe she should accept that he may be in a phase that may last forever or just be temporary but its up to him to conclude when he is mature. Same for the dad. I also do not believe one parent should have say life-changing medical procedures even if the parents are separated, so the father has the right to object to the actions of the mother. I don't think the mother should be allowed to make the decisions in the first place. We're talking life-altering procedures that take some time for an adult to work through, so I think such things should be left to a person when they are an adult. It the boy becomes an adult and feels like he wants surgery then and only then should he start the process, not before. If I was a doctor I would advise them to wait until they are 25 (some would even say 35) but if they insist then they insist. Point is until the body and brain have matured and they know a thing or two about real life.

Arguing this stuff when the boy is 7 is stupid. Let kids be kids. If a boy naturally behaves feminine, let him and vice versa. That will either be their natural inclination or they will 'grow out' of it. Either way, let them grow.

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I feel like these sorts of threads have less to do with the actual substance of the story and moreso for the identify politics one can attach to them and getting "points" against the other side, which I find boring as all hell.

Politics aside, this case could actually be important when it comes to parents rights and the of a minor when it comes to medical procedures. We have one parent trying to supersede the other even though the child is both of theirs, and then a medical procedure(s) being pushed that the person might regret when they are older. Gender is the catalyst, we could very much be talking about vaccinations in today's world.

[Muajin76]

hmm..so if the boy goes into the girl's locker or girl's bathroom just cause he thinks he's a girl...i'm pretty sure the school will have something to say about that. :P

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/26/u...ase/index.html

So....the father says it's a boy, but the mother says the child is a transgender girl. What a sad age we live in where a kid's parents can't decide on what gender their child is.
How is a 7yr old a transgender..?

A lot of kids become aware of their sexuality before they're 10, some earlier than others.
I don't see why it would be any different about their gender identity.

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hmm..so if the boy goes into the girl's locker or girl's bathroom just cause he thinks he's a girl...i'm pretty sure the school will have something to say about that. :P

Not if the kid gets the help she needs and legally gets a change in papers.

[Teleros]

Hmm..parents can't agree on their childs gender

Let's see now... XY chromosomes, so male.

No, no need to thank me, I do this stuff for free.

So....the father says it's a boy, but the mother says the child is a transgender girl.

The "mother" needs to be sectioned is all.

Scare quotes because she didn't contribute the egg, so the kid's not actually hers.

How is a 7yr old a transgender..?

Found another one of those racist neo-nazi alt-right pepe frog types ...

I love how they "won't name the 7 year old to protect the child's privacy," but they'll name both their parents, and say they have a twin brother.. I'm willing to bet you could find the child with that information. You could probably do it with half of the information

The kid in question is named James - been all over the right-wing news for a while now.

OT: I feel bad for the child. They either have a mother trying to force him to be a girl, or a father who refuses to accept her for who she is. Glad they got joint custody, but hope they'll revisit the ruling when the child is old enough to decide who they want to live with themselves.

From what I read the jury awarded the mother sole custody, and the plan was to start hormone treatment. This would coincidentally have sterilised the boy.

"Anne Georgulas, the mother of the two boys, has advocated for James to transition into Luna and has strongly backed the idea of chemically castrating her son and beginning hormone replacement therapy."
-Washington Examiner

This feels like they are conflating understanding their biological sex with gender identity.

There is no difference.

hell even adults have issues with differentiate gender identity and biological sex.

We call those people mentally ill, and back when we genuinely cared about such people, would try to help them recover, instead of mandating that everyone buy into their mental illness. But hey, it's only 43% that try to off themselves, so what's the harm ?

Pearlclutching by right wing fuckheads aside, the only person that gets to decide on the kid's gender is... the kid. And no, right wing fuckheads, the kid isn't going to go through gender reassignment procedures while they're still a minor, you can stop blubbering about the fall of western civilization or whatever other overreaction to every overblown story about a trans person that the media loves to hype.

See my point about hormone treatment.

Attempting to argue that gender is binary and you'll find many counter-arguments.

Gender is a linguistic thing. French has two, German has 3, English has none, Swahili has 18 (!), and so on.

[Yadryonych]

Arguing this stuff when the boy is 7 is stupid. Let kids be kids. If a boy naturally behaves feminine, let him and vice versa. That will either be their natural inclination or they will 'grow out' of it. Either way, let them grow.

I like how they say kids are unable to give a sexual consent until they are 16 years old while no consent needed for any kind of surgical and hormonal alteration of their sexual life

It isn't, the parent is just mentally ill.

Exactly.

The father should act and act FAST before the crazy hag chops his son's willy off

[Cerilis]

I like how they say kids are unable to give a sexual consent until they are 16 years old while no consent needed for any kind of surgical and hormonal alteration of their sexual life

That is, simply put, wrong. No doctor is going to give a kid hormones or surgery before they are a legal adult and can decide by themselves. They are going to get hormone-blockers at best (and they should) to delay puberty until they can legally decide.

Spew your transphobic bullshit somewhere else. Or even better, dont spew it at all.

[PACOX]

hmm..so if the boy goes into the girl's locker or girl's bathroom just cause he thinks he's a girl...i'm pretty sure the school will have something to say about that. :P

Too be honest, lockers don't (or shouldn't) have anything to do with gender. They are separated by sex. You share a locker room with those how are biologically alike regardless of gender or sexual orientation.

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That is, simply put, wrong. No doctor is going to give a kid hormones or surgery before they are a legal adult and can decide by themselves. They are going to get hormone-blockers at best (and they should) to delay puberty until they can legally decide.

Spew your transphobic bullshit somewhere else. Or even better, dont spew it at all.

I see you but the mom is asking for the courts time chime in on what you say doctors wont do. And I have no faith in her inability in a doctor who won't go along with her if she looks hard enough.

[Teleros]

The father should act and act FAST before the crazy hag chops his son's willy off

Not many countries in the world that don't have an extradition treaty with the USA though, and anything less just means he loses all custody rights, possibly for both boys.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

This feels like they are conflating understanding their biological sex with gender identity. Seems a bit odd to have that much understanding of their own identity when they barely know who they are... hell even adults have issues with differentiate gender identity and biological sex.

How people (of all ages) understand and "deal with" their identity is very much dependent on their upbringing, work, social life, religious beliefs, education, community situation and 123058a9 other factors.
Picture these two situations.
Person A: Raised in a conservative, muslim, family with strict paternal hierarchy and physical and mental punishments for failing to satisfy the family.
Person B: Raised in a "free spirit", non-religious, family where the kid has a say in what happens and is given responsibility and freedom to make their own choices early on.
Both of these persons are gay and/or transgender.
Person A fights their own feelings and hides it from their family, even themselves, and pushes against it because they know it won't be accepted by the family.
Person B is open about their feelings and shares it with their family, knowing that they will be accepted they work with their feelings without the fear of being alienated by their family.
Which of these two persons do you think will "come out" or even "work" with this situation?
Now consider that there can be many other situations (factors), like what if person A and B had a relative that was gay and that person was shunned by family A, but in family B the person was supported.

The technical term in psychology and development sciences (and others) is intersectionality which basically means there are many different combinations of situations, influences and other things that change the situation/outcome of any particular 'event' or 'situation'. I've had students come out as gay at the end of their 3rd year in primary school, I've also had students "everyone knew was gay for years" before they came out as gay- many years after they graduated. Again go back to persons A and B, different situations (intersectionality) heavily influences our lives ...and not just for 'untraditional' identities.

[Cizr]

Is the case where mother was dressing their kid as a girl and brainwashing him into saying that he is a girl? Good thing that dad recorded that bullshit.

[Ghostpanther]

Is the case where mother was dressing their kid as a girl and brainwashing him into saying that he is a girl? Good thing that dad recorded that bullshit.

Yeah, the whole case is ridiculous. The mother is a doctor too I think. She should know better.

But this thread is going to have a short life I think.

[Spectral]

OT: I feel bad for the child. They either have a mother trying to force him to be a girl, or a father who refuses to accept her for who she is...

We don't actually have to pretend like these are equally likely possibilities though. The number of people born with XY chromosomes and normal male anatomy that turn out to want to be girls is just about a rounding error.