Would it hurt to fix hybrid speccs Mana issues?.

[Alexplode]

Hello, 1st post on a wow forum since I lost posting privileges on AJ during WOTLK lol.

Anyway,

Wouldn't that make your classic experience better?.

Is it going to hurt your nostalgia or gameplay?.

Wouldn't that make raids and other content more fun?

Thoughts?

[Dacien]

I think a class rebalance via Classic+ would be awesome. Shake up the meta.

[time0ut]

Fixing hybrid Mana issues might make them viable in PvE, but it will make them ridiculous in PvP. It took them releasing an expansion (a full reset) to get it even close to balanced.

[Nnyco]

Mana issue and the debuff limits basically the main problem alot of specs arent working.

Though this is classic, its like a museum so they shouldnt change anythin tbh.

[arkanon]

Hello, 1st post on a wow forum since I lost posting privileges on AJ during WOTLK lol.

Anyway,

Wouldn't that make your classic experience better?.

Is it going to hurt your nostalgia or gameplay?.

Wouldn't that make raids and other content more fun?

Thoughts?

This is based on the assumption they need "fixing". If this was a new game, i would be saying "absolutely! this is unacceptable!". However, From day one, the intention has always been to recreate the game as accurate as they could, as a snapshot in time of what the game was. I dont at all follow the "slippery slope" crowd, but i would say that the moment you make a single balance change, you have set a precedent, and it would cause more harm than good - balance one spec, and boom - every single spec will expect and demand exactly the same treatment.

So my question would be this:

- why just hybrids? many dps specs are terrible, not just hybrids
- do you just bring them in line with the lowest performing dps, or push them to the top?
- HOW would this balancing be done?
- how would it impact the "meta" raid teams with things like debuff slots etc
- Just for pve? or for pvp as well?
- for which tier? Some specs are fantastic in some raids, and terrible in others (resistances etc)
- Considering that fights are only lasting 30-90 seconds, do they balance it for how players are performing NOW, or back in Vanilla?
- What about things like pallies having no taunt?

Look i could go on and on, but the truth is, the moment you touch one spec, every single spec in the game will need looking at to compensate and adjust.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

As a pally if I didn’t have mana problems I don’t think I’d ever die in pvp (Atlest pre 60) so it would hurt quite a bit for the horde.

[Kralljin]

Because it's difficult to fix without causing any unintended side effects.

Like, assume they take a similiar approach as in TBC and simply give specs a talent that converts Int into Mp5.
Literally any Resto Shaman would go deep into Ele to pick that up, as the Resto itself doesn't have that many valueable talents on their own.

If i had the choice between a decent Int=>Mp5 Conversion and 10% healing, i'd take the Mp5, more Mana regen => more heals.
You usually have enough time to heal people anyway, so the most common limitation isn't output but rather mana.
On top of that, going deep into Ele also gives you a decent damage boost for soloing and PvP.

On top of that, it raises the question why Hybrids would be fixed, but dot heavy specs aren't getting any fixes by removing the debuff cap.
I mean, it is weird how Warlocks have dots like Corruption & Immolate but are doomed to spam Shadowbolt.

[dacoolist]

Hello, 1st post on a wow forum since I lost posting privileges on AJ during WOTLK lol.

Anyway,

Wouldn't that make your classic experience better?.

Is it going to hurt your nostalgia or gameplay?.

Wouldn't that make raids and other content more fun?

Thoughts?

The big time classic people don't want any changes is the big issue.

For a big time retail lover like myself: I agree that the fix's would be awesome - but that's not what the classic fam believes so

[Annelie]

Mage have mana issues too, i go OOM super fast. Fix plix! (No dont fix it, i like how the game is now)

[Celarent]

As with the recently necro'd Warcraft Logs thread, the question is who this actually benefits.

Very few encounters are tuned rightly enough for a side-by-side comparison of classes to matter. Gameplay inside and outside instanced content has been so streamlined and elevated in difficulty on retail that output is the only relevant metric.

In Classic? Half-pug raids on RP servers can one-shot endbosses. Top-tier players can do it with their eyes closed. That leaves tryhards looking for some kind of meta pecking order, and that's the last thing Classic needs another of, since there's much more to Vanilla than PVE.

[Zyky]

Fixing hybrid Mana issues might make them viable in PvE, but it will make them ridiculous in PvP. It took them releasing an expansion (a full reset) to get it even close to balanced.

You think BC was close to balanced? lmao

[AeneasBK]

The problem was always caused by Blizzards refusal for years to make spells work differently vs players or vs NPCs. They felt it would be too confusing and overwhelm newer players, and the only concession they would make is for CC durations to be reduced vs players.

They seem to have gotten over that in retail although I don't play it anymore, so maybe they are sticking to their guns. But if they have overcome this decision, then the "easy" solution to fix hybrid specs without making them OP is to have extra effects that ONLY work in PvE environments (or I guess vs Hunter/Warlock pets which I believe we're still considered PvE targets). I won't bother suggesting minutiae, as over the years they've come up with all sorts of ways things can work, but if "making sure hybrids don't go oom in raid fights without making them PvP gods" is the goal, then the solutions are pretty straightforward.

[clevin]

The problem with even minor issues like this is that they have knock on effects. Now you don't worry about mana so how does that affect encounters? What does it do to the relative desirability of each class? Why not DPS casters like my mage?

Oh and you remove the play choice of using downranked spells (which is how you conserved mana in Vanilla... you'd balance the power of the spell vs its cost and some healers (esp) would choose downranked heals more often vs a max ranked heal when the target could really use it.


that's why some of us are #nochanges people. It's not that some changes wouldn't be beneficial and likely just objectively better design choices, it's that the effect of a change very often goes way past just the immediate change itself and has unforeseen consequences.

[Will]

You think BC was close to balanced? lmao

No, but it made some specs actually viable instead of just going oom 1/3rd into a fight and then stood there holding their dick.

[owbu]

Yes, it would hurt those people who see playing a non-optimal spec as well as possible as an interesting challenge.
Playing instances and raids in "xcleave" mode gets boring pretty fast and there is no "heroic" mode.


Also buttlerfly effect, probably.

[kail]

You think BC was close to balanced? lmao

No but the specs where at least playable. Can't speak for arcane mages in that expansion, they seemed non-existent until Wrath.

[Gratlim]

Mage have mana issues too, i go OOM super fast. Fix plix! (No dont fix it, i like how the game is now)

How can you not? This is World of Magecraft.

[Sting]

#nochanges

[Charge me Doctor]

No but the specs where at least playable. Can't speak for arcane mages in that expansion, they seemed non-existent until Wrath.

If you aren't picking arcane power you are maging wrong

[Caperfin]

Hello, 1st post on a wow forum since I lost posting privileges on AJ during WOTLK lol.

Anyway,

Wouldn't that make your classic experience better?.

Is it going to hurt your nostalgia or gameplay?.

Wouldn't that make raids and other content more fun?

Thoughts?

An IMPORTANT distinction.

Hybrid specs have mana issues but don't go out of mana, if you put in the effort to solve it.