I understand WHY people love TBC, but....

[Will]

Yeah doubt you played TBC at all, i personally lead countless charges consisting of 20+ people in both nagrand and hellfire cap zones.

Those were great times, and nothing came close to such open world pvp battles since.

Same, me and my friends were on a PvE server and yet we saw LOADS of world PvP. Every day we could pick fights and start wars with the other faction. If anything, flying helped us because we could log in, go to, say HFP, see 'Thrallmar is under attack' and be there within a minute or two to defend! If we were bored we could attack Honor Hold and expect a similar response from the Alliance within minutes. Without flying, half these defense responses wouldn't have occurred because people would be like "meh, cba to run over there on foot, take too long."

The ease of being able to fly made these enemy-faction responses all the more likely, and rapid. It was fantastic. What a time to be a world PvPer TBC was!

Yet every time we see a thread like this where some moron just goes "herp derp, flying killed world pvp" and loads of people LIKE US who actually played TBC in the day chip in and say "you're wrong, world PvP was great", these idiots still refuse to believe we're telling the truth, and continue spouting their nonsense.

[Alexplode]

TBC is a VERY good PVE game and sucks at everything else. If raiding was the primary thing you did in WoW you usually loved it. Everything I say past here doesn't matter to you, because TBC might be the best raid/pve game ever made for a "raiding is all that matters" player. If PVE wasn't your primary focus, you can easily view it as highly overrated and point out that it started many of the systems and things that would eventually destroy WoW as we knew it.

Flying destroyed world pvp. Instantly. Nothing more to say about that.

Arena gear/arena led to the changes that destroyed Alterac Valley. ALL players gravitated towards the honor per minute idea to get the resilience gear they needed to start arena, instead of just having fun. Take the mentally ill repeat rank 14 grinders and give that mindset to ALL the players and that is what BG's became. Keep in mind that AV was cleverly designed to get pve players into pvp and that is ceased to exist as intended in TBC and the playerbase became very split with pvp and pve players. This got worse every expansion and now players who used to all be one big, awesome community are split into little groups.

Professions mean very little in pvp because world pvp is dead. Why bother. Rocketboots could be used if I remember right in arena, but could backfire. Hand enchants I think could be used to, but it really didn't matter. I hated arena and tried to block out every time I would get myself or someone else the 1850 weapon. The rest was a waste of time. I also usually played double dps because running around a pole for a long time was awful.

Arena becomes the barometer for everything, due to a dumb rating that autistic kids and streamers who helped ruin WoW, can brag about as they run around a pole with a healer in most comps (other than spriest, rogue, mage). Very few comps are viable and the pvp is awful and the makers of the original WoW said arena was a mistake.
engadget.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/[/url]

The better arena got, the more classes all became the same, which breaks and ruins larger forms of pvp and the "fun factor" and uniqueness of classes. The original designers knew this would happen. Fast forward and we now have unkillable healers when crosshealing happens in a BG or a 1 v 1 happens due to every class having to all have the same CC and chains. PvP outside of 3 v 3 is now GARBAGE. Healers HAVE to be OP in all other scenarios, just so a failed esport can continue.

Segregation of the playerbase happens for the first time with Arena and Heroics. This was not that big a problem in TBC because you only had heroic dungeons and one difficulty of raids. Now we have LFR, normal, heroic, mythic, mythic plus. It's just stupid.

Dailies start as a big thing in TBC. This is what happens when you break world pvp and segregate the playerbase to cater to the "eltiist jerks" (who now run WoW btw). You need dumbed down repeatable, zombie like content for the "casuals" or really nice people who weren't that great mechanically, who actually have very little to do in modern WoW. They eventually get bored/quit and all you are left with in the modern game is LFR/daily zombies who listen to streamers they are so bored and the 1 percent that no one could stand to be around in vanilla.

In vanilla these mechanically deficient players could be "carried" but no one said carried because people weren't all aholes and they could contribute big time to a guild through professions, farming, running 5 mans and gearing up offtanks and dps. They could also pvp with you, world pvp, have consumables that gave them an edge etc. Modern WoW literally separates you from people you grew up playing this game with and rewards you for abandoning them with progression. Vanilla never did that.

People claim vanilla was not casual friendly. That's complete BS. It had the most to do for casual players of any expansion. Everything took time, but you always had something to do.

TLDR. TBC introduced too many catch up systems, flying killed world pvp, arena killed classes being unique and broke all other forums of pvp except 3 v 3, segregation of pve content got out of control eventually and further led to class homogenization, it was the first implemenation of a group finder (no one used it), dailies replaced organic pvp and farming content, old world is now useless.

reported for creating multiple accounts so people can be influenced in your biased hate post towards an expation

[Will]

You know nothing of TBC
Yes it did destroy you are wrong.
And the proof is the AMAZING times we had when isle of quel`danas patch was released, people were creating gank guilds and putting out hit squads on x players.

The fact that there was lots of world PvP on Quel'Danas, and also the fact you couldn't fly there, do not conclusively prove that flying was the problem. Lol.

That's a childish parallel to draw.

What the fuck did you think would happen when a new content patch and daily hub would force both factions onto a tiny freaking island with a tiny quest hub? That they'd all shake hands and have a cup of tea?

If they'd let us fly on Quel'Danas, the amount of world PvP there would have been just as spectacular. In order to take and do the quests (because why else would people go there, except to enter MgT or SWP) you have to dismount inside those structures.

[Alexplode]

already did, not sure what he is trying to accomplish but as simple minded this guy seems it would be really easy for Mods to track down ip address and start blocking all post with similar content

[Will]

PVE was and still is the only thing that matters.

Please don't talk about things you don't understand. Plenty of people play this game for PvP and really couldn't care less about raiding or dungeons. Everyone plays WoW for their own reasons and those reasons are what matter to the individual. Not what you dictate should matter to them. This is pretty obvious stuff, so I shouldn't even have to be explaining it to a grown adult.

[Vortsex]

There's no doubt TBC was great, and was far better than Classic/Vanilla. But WotLK is what I want the most. Northrend is amazing, I loved leveling in every single zone. Some of the best raids and dungeons. The Lich King was our end game boss and he kept popping up everywhere. I would shell out a lot for a WotLK stand alone.

[Heladys]

Please don't talk about things you don't understand. Plenty of people play this game for PvP and really couldn't care less about raiding or dungeons. Everyone plays WoW for their own reasons and those reasons are what matter to the individual. Not what you dictate should matter to them. This is pretty obvious stuff, so I shouldn't even have to be explaining it to a grown adult.

PVE was and still is the only thing that matters.

[riptal]

Let me fix it for you… YOU THINK YOU understand WHY people love TBC, but.... You don't!!!

This is YOUR explanation about what YOU dislike about TBC and trying to convince people who liked it. How can you understand people who likes something you clearly doesnt like?

mmmwait… My god, you're right! Thank you so much for your explanation! Now I know that TBC suck! Never realised that! Where have I been all those years???

[Granyala]

TBC is a VERY good PVE game and sucks at everything else.

Flying destroyed world pvp. Instantly. Nothing more to say about that.

Well, guess what part of WoW I don't care about: Oh right! PvP in any shape or form. Though wPvP (a.k.a. ganking) has a special reserved place with added extra hatred in my heart.

On my realm, Rp-PvP, the objectives were always contested. Esp Halaa in Nagrand.

[toffmcsoft]

It's always the same people...they act like Retail or other xpacks completely sucks and Classic is absolutely flawless.

They can't understand why anyone likes any WoW other than Vanilla/Classic...they keep spamming threads and posts about how great Classic is or how bad others are. They need to insecurely proclaim victory when it's to early to tell if Classic is a just a fad or a phenomena.

Also like they lie about Classic, they lie about other version because telling the truth is hard for them.

- - - Updated - - -



Aww how cute...agreeing with your own new account!

What? You've gone off the deep end with this 1.
Honestly you must follow my post and try to troll me whenever possible.

[Powerogue]

I feel like the net gun they added recently helped world pvp not get hurt so much by flying. Still changes it quite a bit, but it helps.

[Kithelle]

PVE was and still is the only thing that matters.

Even PvE in BC was better...much more interesting and challenging raids...specs that were pretty much unviable in Classic got viability updates and had gear that was tuned for them.

- - - Updated - - -

What? You've gone off the deep end with this 1.
Honestly you must follow my post and try to troll me whenever possible.

I don't need to stalk you, I just need to show up in threads that bash anything that isn't Classic

You'll always be there!

[Snackpack]

The fact that there was lots of world PvP on Quel'Danas, and also the fact you couldn't fly there, do not conclusively prove that flying was the problem. Lol.

That's a childish parallel to draw.

What the fuck did you think would happen when a new content patch and daily hub would force both factions onto a tiny freaking island with a tiny quest hub? That they'd all shake hands and have a cup of tea?

If they'd let us fly on Quel'Danas, the amount of world PvP there would have been just as spectacular. In order to take and do the quests (because why else would people go there, except to enter MgT or SWP) you have to dismount inside those structures.

Agreed. There was no wpvp in places like Blade's Edge Mountain because there was nothing to do there besides dailies. Give both factions a reason to be in the same place and there will be pvp. Isle of Quel'Danas was a bloodbath because it was tiny, brand new, loot pinata.

[Tiwack]

wPvP was a mistake, while multiple raid difficulties might've been as well the catch-up-gear were absolutely necessary just as the loot in Dire Maul that players are enjoying running right now.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Here's the simple truth about flying and World PVP.

Flying did not destroy World PVP. What flying did is allow people that didn't want to always be caught up in WPVP every time they set foot into the world a way to avoid it. If World PVP was "killed" because of that...than it wasn't something that the majority of people actually wanted anyway.

Battlegrounds did more to harm WPVP than flying. Battlegrounds made engaging in PVP and gaining honour faster and easier. People that wanted large-scale PVP could just jump into AV...rather than just stomp around ganking lowbies until they start calling their guildmates and/or switching to their max level characters.

[Mukind]

Here's the simple truth about flying and World PVP.

Flying did not destroy World PVP. What flying did is allow people that didn't want to always be caught up in WPVP every time they set foot into the world a way to avoid it. If World PVP was "killed" because of that...than it wasn't something that the majority of people actually wanted anyway.

Battlegrounds did more to harm WPVP than flying. Battlegrounds made engaging in PVP and gaining honour faster and easier. People that wanted large-scale PVP could just jump into AV...rather than just stomp around ganking lowbies until they start calling their guildmates and/or switching to their max level characters.

This is sorta true. But if you put stuff to fight over out in the wrold people will fight.

It won't feel like a war without wpvp being the only efficient way to gain honor. But it will feel dangerous.

If you want to go out in the world you should have to face some danger to get there. Flying takes that out. If you wanted that you shoulda rolled on a PvE server....Which everyone in retrospect seems to agree are terrible looking at the choices classic players make

BG's may have killed the RP war going on before BG releases. But flying mounts finished it off

[ThrashMetalFtw]

The best world PvP happened in MoP on Timeless Isle with the Ordos item that allowed you to kill players from your own faction while giving you a decent buff at the same time. That buff + BiS PvE gear allowed you wreak havoc. Always fun to see how long you could go before people started rallying huge ganking squads just to stop you.

[Heathy]

world pvp was destroyed by instanced battlegrounds. there is no way you can compete with that for the pure sake of pvp or honor farming.

the pvp based event areas in classic didn't really exist until near the latter half, the capturable towers in the epl and the thing whatever it was in silithus, capturing some pile of mud or something. neither of those things. similarly the capture points in TBC zones that provided a buff for your faction. none of this was better than just joining a battleground and getting 100% pvp the whole time you're in there. large scale world pvp kinda requires there to be a large amount of ppl fighting over something, wintergrasp was so-so, it wasn't better than av. but there also hasn't been anything in the game world worth fighting over. with tagging rules you can't really even fight over world bosses. or they are setup so that there isn't any point in fighting over them.

[Mukind]

world pvp was destroyed by instanced battlegrounds. there is no way you can compete with that for the pure sake of pvp or honor farming.

the pvp based event areas in classic didn't really exist until near the latter half, the capturable towers in the epl and the thing whatever it was in silithus, capturing some pile of mud or something. neither of those things. similarly the capture points in TBC zones that provided a buff for your faction. none of this was better than just joining a battleground and getting 100% pvp the whole time you're in there. large scale world pvp kinda requires there to be a large amount of ppl fighting over something, wintergrasp was so-so, it wasn't better than av.

wpvp will not die when BG's release on classic

So no

There will still be way more than any other version of vanilla very later into the game.

Just wiping world buffs alone gives so much incentive for large scale zerg combat. Black lotus. World buffs

You have no idea what you're talking about. As usual. EPL towers lol

[Heathy]

wpvp will not die when BG's release on classic

So no

There will still be way more than any other version of vanilla very later into the game.

Just wiping world buffs alone gives so much incentive for large scale zerg combat.

i'm sure there will be but on the same scale as that inside the bgs? no there won't be. i will bet a vital organ if ppl want to maintain their rank they'll be in the bgs, as that is where the honor will be, not camping stv lowbies. the amount of ppl that you run into out in the world, of those willing to actually pvp? would you say this is more or less than what you'll find if you join AV?