I understand WHY people love TBC, but....

[spalernTJ]

What is the point of this Thread anyway? You're starting off with the "I understand why people love TBC" and following it up with a "But," and then lists the reasons why you don't want to let people have what they love because you don't want it? You got Vanilla, now you want more? Vanilla not good enough? You want an entire different, alternate universe?

Vanilla vs TBC comes down to subjective taste, you got what you wanted, you got Vanilla, let TBC players have their TBC servers if it gets to that.

[Asrialol]

If tbc is so good (it isnt) how come every single private server in past 5 years failed to hold healthy endgame population after 2 months of release?

People try it and realize that tbc is bad and nothing but nostalgia ( and dont say scripting cuz in fact tbc scripting is superior to vanilla servers) while vanilla is popular and people cant stop playing it.

Except it's dying. People can't stop playing? I couldn't even start, bro.

[Vorkreist]

If tbc is so good (it isnt) how come every single private server in past 5 years failed to hold healthy endgame population after 2 months of release?

People try it and realize that tbc is bad and nothing but nostalgia ( and dont say scripting cuz in fact tbc scripting is superior to vanilla servers) while vanilla is popular and people cant stop playing it.

Scripting basically. If you actually tried those realm as you seem to imply you would know. There was no tbc project that would even come close to the quality Nost reached. Tens of thousands would gather for every hyped new tbc realm release that promised amazing scripting and would quit in two weeks because it was always shit.

[Askyl]

Except it's dying. People can't stop playing? I couldn't even start, bro.

It's dying? No it's not. It's in a kind of a stale area were there's not enough to do because BWL and ZG needs to be released. Now people kind of just raid logs or play alts waiting for more to do.

I do hope Blizzard release more content because it's with Darkmoon, ZG and BWL you finally have stuff to do in the game.

[froschhure]

[FONT=Arial Black]
TLDR. TBC introduced too many catch up systems, flying killed world pvp, arena killed classes being unique and broke all other forums of pvp except 3 v 3, segregation of pve content got out of control eventually and further led to class homogenization, it was the first implemenation of a group finder (no one used it), dailies replaced organic pvp and farming content, old world is now useless.

so true... damn. and it never stopped after it, everything you said that was set back then, amplified over the years.
It has gotten worse

IMO Blizzard are the Skeksis. And WoW is their Crystal, which makes us the Resistance.
But every gaming firm with stocks and shareholder belong to the Skeksis. Twitch is their official propaganda channel.
They use forums like this and their officials to indoctrinate the vast majority. They tumble down any opinion that is not theirs, by letting different opinions outvote your statement/opinion.

[Collegeguy]

Calling it now, TBC releases and all the classic servers are absolute ghost towns. Not exactly a bold prediction but its going to be pretty funny.

Really, show me one TBC private server that was more popular than a vanilla private server?

[Zarator8]

Really, show me one TBC private server that was more popular than a vanilla private server?

Vanilla PvE pservers were far less popular and lively than PvP pservers, too. Yet, Classic PvE servers are alive and well.

Pservers are not representative of what Blizzard official servers look/would look like.

[Valkarra]

Say no to tbc servers, classic+ is way to go

Why? I like TBC and if they develop new content, I want that to be for the current game and not an outdated version of the game.

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TBC is a VERY good PVE game and sucks at everything else.

Nothing else matters. Everything except PvP is PvE and PvP is irrelevant. If you wanna do PvP you can play Classic or BFA, either way you should be well served with one or the other.

[shise]

It was the best stage of this game, all round

[jstnw89]

What does Classic+ entail exactly? You think Blizzard wants to take a risk on having their current devs (that constantly get shit on for "ruining" the retail game) to somehow create content that Classic players find good / acceptable (avoiding a rage fest)? That does not sound very likely.

What does sound likely is Blizzard releasing TBC and WOTLK Classic because it'll require far less effort than Vanilla Classic did and those (especially Wrath) are looked on very fondly by the community. It will be another boost of "free" money to them

[Asrialol]

It's dying? No it's not. It's in a kind of a stale area were there's not enough to do because BWL and ZG needs to be released. Now people kind of just raid logs or play alts waiting for more to do.

I do hope Blizzard release more content because it's with Darkmoon, ZG and BWL you finally have stuff to do in the game.

Will ZG have a 3 day lockout? I seem to recall it being shorter than other raids. Might remember wrong though..

[Heathy]

both the 20 mans reset every 3 days, i think ony has a shorter reset as well isn't it like 4 days.

can only get 4 enchants a week from zg aswell (2 idols per run) when everyone wants at least 2, so thats 80 clears. times that by how many tier sets you want to enchant. t2 + t3, 160 zg clears.

[Timewalker]

I'm already bored of Classic, gimme TBC servers.

[Whoopax]

Scripting basically. If you actually tried those realm as you seem to imply you would know. There was no tbc project that would even come close to the quality Nost reached. Tens of thousands would gather for every hyped new tbc realm release that promised amazing scripting and would quit in two weeks because it was always shit.

Keep telling yourself that when the TBC private out there is better scripted than any other era of WoW. It's vanilla content is better than vanilla servers and it still can't keep a steady population of end game players. People level, remember TBC sucks and is an endless PVE grind and nothing more and quit.

[Didly]

You classic+ people are hilariouis .

You don't like the direction modern Activision Blizzard has taken the game, so you're playing Classic. You now realize that game has nothing to do, so you want modern Activision Blizzard to make content for Classic?



People are already leaving Classic... the proposal is to split the community further into Classic / TBC servers? Then eventually we'll have "classic" BFA?

[Vorkreist]

Keep telling yourself that when the TBC private out there is better scripted than any other era of WoW. It's vanilla content is better than vanilla servers and it still can't keep a steady population of end game players. People level, remember TBC sucks and is an endless PVE grind and nothing more and quit.

I don't need to tell myself anything. I'm not the one posting troll garbage.

[Zarator8]

People are already leaving Classic... the proposal is to split the community further into Classic / TBC servers? Then eventually we'll have "classic" BFA?

There are so many wrong things with this common reply that it hurts:
(1) What's with this "People are already leaving Classic" meme? Wasn't it, like, the whole point behind layering etc. that a significant portion of the playerbase would be leaving the game? I don't know what server you play on, but my server (Mirage Raceway, ftr) is so full of ppl that it's nearly impossible to find an empty questing ground beyond lvl 40, or an empty farming zone at high levels - even outside peak hours or weekends. If anything, there are still way too many people on most Classic servers right now.
(2) How many times could you split the Classic playerbase and still end up with enough ppl to keep an expansion alive? I've seen bustling pservers with a population that's a 1/20th of Classic, or even less. And that's just considering one region.
(3) Most importantly, what makes you think that, without TBC, people will keep playing Classic forever? Whether TBC is released or not, the population split WILL happen - in the sense that a sizable amount of players will leave, either to return to (TBC/WotLK) pservers or to quit the game altogether. Releasing TBC is not a way to split the playerbase, but to try and retain some of those potential leavers.

Keep telling yourself that when the TBC private out there is better scripted than any other era of WoW. It's vanilla content is better than vanilla servers and it still can't keep a steady population of end game players. People level, remember TBC sucks and is an endless PVE grind and nothing more and quit.

You know what's funny? That people keep using the "pserver population" argument unironically, even after Classic launch, phase 2, BGs etc. What else do you need to realize that the vast majority of Classic players are not former pserver players and that demographic dynamics of Classic hardly reflect what we've seen on pservers?

And besides, would the quality of Vanilla content in a TBC server help keeping players?

[Oftenwrongsoong]

TBC is a VERY good PVE game and [then Whoopax said a bunch of irrelevant things].

WoW is a PvE game, not a PvP game. TBC was the pinnacle of WoW and was near perfect.

[czarek]

"Flying destroyed world PVP" its hard to destroy thing that really never exists. World PVP in vanilla and in general was more like episodes not real thing. At classic all screams OMG WPVP HORDE PWNED ALLY. Yes that was episode till bg`s went out. Same was in vanilla times. Ppl was doing wpvp raids beacause they was just bored or meanwhile grouping up the raid for instance (kargath etc.)

[mercutiouk]

There are so many wrong things with this common reply that it hurts:
(1) What's with this "People are already leaving Classic" meme? Wasn't it, like, the whole point behind layering etc. that a significant portion of the playerbase would be leaving the game? I don't know what server you play on, but my server (Mirage Raceway, ftr) is so full of ppl that it's nearly impossible to find an empty questing ground beyond lvl 40, or an empty farming zone at high levels - even outside peak hours or weekends. If anything, there are still way too many people on most Classic servers right now.
(2) How many times could you split the Classic playerbase and still end up with enough ppl to keep an expansion alive? I've seen bustling pservers with a population that's a 1/20th of Classic, or even less. And that's just considering one region.
(3) Most importantly, what makes you think that, without TBC, people will keep playing Classic forever? Whether TBC is released or not, the population split WILL happen - in the sense that a sizable amount of players will leave, either to return to (TBC/WotLK) pservers or to quit the game altogether. Releasing TBC is not a way to split the playerbase, but to try and retain some of those potential leavers.



You know what's funny? That people keep using the "pserver population" argument unironically, even after Classic launch, phase 2, BGs etc. What else do you need to realize that the vast majority of Classic players are not former pserver players and that demographic dynamics of Classic hardly reflect what we've seen on pservers?

And besides, would the quality of Vanilla content in a TBC server help keeping players?

Agree with most things said here. Hadn't considered the point about folks eventually leaving classic without more content... it WILL happen... I think that makes "expansion re-play" servers all the more inevitable.

We'll have:
Classic Vanilla
Expansion re-run
Retail

Eventually the expansion re-run either forks and doesn't have all the systems/etc that folks don't like (appreciate there's plenty that do, not picking fights) or gets merged back into retail.
Preference wise, expansions with LFG/LFR never being a thing. Community absolutely makes or breaks wow, making it a faceless MMO... (obviously imo) rather detracts from that.

Hello to a fellow mirage raceway inhabitant.

I'd suggest anyone doubting classics appeal log in and head to IF/SW around 7-8pm on a Sunday. It's LITERALLY the IF/SW of old populations wise. Certainly on mirage raceway Alliance anyway.

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unpopular opinion:

TBC was one of my most hated expansions of all time. even though I was with a hardcore guild & cleared everything except late bosses in sunwell. The world felt empty & boring.

I just hope blizzard don't force me to move my character to TBC.

Most people seem to have the... apparently obvious (maybe it's not but... seems the most logical way to please everyone) thought of there being an option to COPY your vanilla character to a "expansions due" server. You still keep your vanilla, you have all that stuff again on a "new" expansion server. I must have spoken to 10-15 ppl about "the awesome idea I saw for expansion servers" and almost everyone had the same though already.

Those that want vanilla forever - sorted, minus a little guild re-making as ppl "leave" for expansions (but they'd have maybe stopped anyway after naxx without new content).
Those that want expansions - copy characters to expansion server of choice (at about the sorta timeframe relative to launch as the name reservation was for classic). Maybe have it run a month before pre-launch events/etc so folks have time to guild up again, run a little naxx together to get a solid raid team...
Those that want retail - continue as before.

It suits everyone, Blizzard gets the most subs out of it this way too... unless they have a clever option no-one's though of yet, it seems the most likely.