1. #1
    Scarab Lord Milchshake's Avatar
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    Gerrymandering: Will Michigan Have Free and Fair Elections in 2020?

    Ongoing In: One Party Really Hates Democracy.

    A reminder about the disastrous effects of Rucho v. Common Cause:

    The Supreme Court on Monday threw out a challenge to maps drawn by Republicans for state legislative and congressional district boundaries in Michigan.

    The decision was expected because the court declared in June that such challenges involve an issue that is essentially political, beyond the authority of federal courts to resolve on legal grounds.

    Monday’s ruling came in a lawsuit filed after Republicans redrew the political boundary lines after the 2010 census. Democrats claimed that the new plan would perpetuate Republican control by preventing Democrats from forming majorities.

    In April, a panel of three federal judges declared the maps to be an unconstitutional partisan gerrymander and ordered the legislature to come up with a new plan for nine congressional and 25 state legislative districts. It also said the state must hold a special election for state senators in 2020.

    Evidence points to only one conclusion: partisan considerations played a central role in every aspect of the redistricting process,” the court said.

    Indeed, there is a very good chance that Rucho will, in terms of its effects, actually be worse than Shelby County — after all, preclearance didn’t cover some jurisdictions in which Republicans racially suppress the vote, and would be a dead letter with Barr as Attorney General in any case. But every election that it is impossible for Republicans to lose even if they’re beaten decisively at the polls has major effects.
    And this case also reminds is that;
    Roberts is claiming that it’s impossible for courts to do what courses have in many cases done.
    His specious reasoning was already dispositively rebutted nearly 60 years ago.



    A reminder of Elena Kagan’s unanswerable dissent in Rucho v. Common Cause was this:

    But in throwing up its hands, the majority misses something under its nose: What it says can’t be done has been done. Over the past several years, federal courts across the country—including, but not exclusively, in the decisions below—have largely converged on a standard for adjudicating partisan gerrymandering claims (striking down both Democratic and Republican districting plans in the process). And that standard does what the majority says is impossible.

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Republicans can't get people to vote for them, so they have to change who can effectively vote and what votes count to stay in power. See, oppressive voter ID laws, gerrymandering, the electoral college...

    But republicans don't care. They see it as their side "winning;" "Our votes are more powerful because we're better!"

    That is the only thing they care about at this point. But I doubt we'll see any of the usual suspects turn up in this thread.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #3
    Warchief Mekkle's Avatar
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    Nope, /10chars

  4. #4
    The Unstoppable Force
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    Republicans don't want free and fair elections so they won't happen.

  5. #5
    On the other hand, republicans believe democrats are outright criminals breaking the law by flooding the nation with illegal immigrants for the purpose of rigging elections with democrat voters, as 2nd generation Americans strongly vote democrat. And that is why republicans are wondering when we will ever have free and fair elections. Its also one of the reasons republicans are on the verge of revolt. So its not that simple.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    On the other hand, republicans believe democrats are outright criminals breaking the law by flooding the nation with illegal immigrants for the purpose of rigging elections with democrat voters, as 2nd generation Americans strongly vote democrat. And that is why republicans are wondering when we will ever have free and fair elections. Its also one of the reasons republicans are on the verge of revolt. So its not that simple.
    Are we supposed to be giving credence to your conspiracy theories?
    /s

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    On the other hand, republicans believe democrats are outright criminals breaking the law by flooding the nation with illegal immigrants for the purpose of rigging elections with democrat voters, as 2nd generation Americans strongly vote democrat. And that is why republicans are wondering when we will ever have free and fair elections. Its also one of the reasons republicans are on the verge of revolt. So its not that simple.
    Paranoia and schizophrenia are not good defenses unless you are going for the insanity plea in court.
    Expansion leak claiming Legion is the last expansion
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    On the other hand, republicans believe democrats are outright criminals breaking the law by flooding the nation with illegal immigrants for the purpose of rigging elections with democrat voters, as 2nd generation Americans strongly vote democrat. And that is why republicans are wondering when we will ever have free and fair elections. Its also one of the reasons republicans are on the verge of revolt. So its not that simple.
    I don't understand your deal here. Why should we let republicans trot over everyone and everything? Cuz if we don't it'll be civil war part 2 hillbilly jamboree?
    If a child is screaming to be noticed do you give em what they want or ignore them until they shut up?
    You surely have a better argument than screaming little brats don't want their feefees hurt

  9. #9
    It's FPTP voting so no it's not going to be fair, free maybe but fair no.

  10. #10
    The Insane Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    On the other hand, republicans believe democrats are outright criminals breaking the law by flooding the nation with illegal immigrants for the purpose of rigging elections with democrat voters, as 2nd generation Americans strongly vote democrat. And that is why republicans are wondering when we will ever have free and fair elections. Its also one of the reasons republicans are on the verge of revolt. So its not that simple.
    Conspiracy theories. Of course.

  11. #11
    Russians and equally corrupt GOP'rs, the ultimate guide on how to secure an election win.
    Killing alliance APES all day on Gehennas

  12. #12
    The Unstoppable Force cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Republicans can't get people to vote for them, so they have to change who can effectively vote and what votes count to stay in power. See, oppressive voter ID laws, gerrymandering, the electoral college...

    But republicans don't care. They see it as their side "winning;" "Our votes are more powerful because we're better!"

    That is the only thing they care about at this point. But I doubt we'll see any of the usual suspects turn up in this thread.
    It's their last desperate grab to hold onto their waning power.

    However, there is also much to fear with this ruling and the implications. The GOP still holds decisive control over many state legislatures, and with this ruling, they can literally go to town in their gerrymandering efforts. Because this ruling affirms a previous SCOTUS dismissal and eliminates previous federal court decisions, gerrymandering will be on the rise. This is carte blanche authority to do whatever the fuck they want at any time - and yes, both sides (as Kagan's dissent points out).

    The GOP, however, is far better at grabbing power to hold onto to diminishing support. The 2018 election was a landslide victory for the Democrats. Given the numbers, however, the Democrats should have picked up far more seats - something like 50+ should have been won over, yet they got just 38. Enough to hold in check the rampaging out of control dictator we have at 1600 Penn atm.

    But I digress.

    This ruling will only see disaster in the near/mid future. We can only hope that when better angels take the reins (as opposed to the current regime and the reigns they desperately need to retain) and we see some sanity return to the country (and the court) this ruling will be revisited and overturned.
    No one is above the law!

  13. #13
    It is not quite as bad as it sounds. It can still be fought in the State Court. One case that was turned down by the Supreme Court (I can't remember the state offhand) has already been decided in the state court against GOP gerrymandering. It is not ideal, but it will have to do for now.

    While the Supreme Court's ruling in June shut the door to federal lawsuits over partisan gerrymandering, the claims can still be heard by state courts.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    On the other hand, republicans believe democrats are outright criminals breaking the law by flooding the nation with illegal immigrants for the purpose of rigging elections with democrat voters, as 2nd generation Americans strongly vote democrat. And that is why republicans are wondering when we will ever have free and fair elections. Its also one of the reasons republicans are on the verge of revolt. So its not that simple.
    Every single post from this person is just endless Civil War conspiracy fearmongering.

    Every, single, post.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by noidentity View Post
    Every single post from this person is just endless Civil War conspiracy fearmongering.

    Every, single, post.
    I think the threat a nuclear war over civil unrest in the US is a DEEPLY serious issue. I think its the single biggest threat to the human race we ever faced. Again, its not conspiracy fearmngering. There's a slew of thought by researchers, historians, and public officials that civil unrest is very close. Even Trump warns of the danger.

    Society is thundering down the wrong path. This cannot continue.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2019-10-22 at 06:12 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I think the threat a nuclear war over civil unrest in the US is a DEEPLY serious issue. I think its the single biggest threat to the human race we ever faced. Again, its not conspiracy fearmngering. There's a slew of thought by researchers, historians, and public officials that civil unrest is very close. Even Trump warns of the danger.

    Society is thundering down the wrong path. This cannot continue.
    What is your plan because it seems the only way in your mind to quell this unrest is to pander to the extremist Republican base and give them everything they want 'or else', no.

    You have been fearmongering for a long time because you think the extremist Republicans are going to start shooting when they don't get their way, tough shit.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    On the other hand, republicans believe democrats are outright criminals breaking the law by flooding the nation with illegal immigrants for the purpose of rigging elections with democrat voters, as 2nd generation Americans strongly vote democrat.
    which has repeatedly been proven to be a baseless theory.

    It's not the nations problem that one party seems obsessed with fairy tales.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Its also one of the reasons republicans are on the verge of revolt. So its not that simple.
    It is simple. They need to stop placing their "feelings" ahead of "facts", because their "feelings" are based on fiction.
    Last edited by Edge-; 2019-10-22 at 07:23 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I think the threat a nuclear war over civil unrest in the US is a DEEPLY serious issue. I think its the single biggest threat to the human race we ever faced. Again, its not conspiracy fearmngering. There's a slew of thought by researchers, historians, and public officials that civil unrest is very close. Even Trump warns of the danger.

    Society is thundering down the wrong path. This cannot continue.
    Really? Because what I see are a bunch of gun nuts quivering in their basements ranting on the internet whilst they clutch their guns. That's the entirety of your second amendment solution. People don't buy guns out of civic duty, they do it out of sheer cowardice.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidentity View Post
    Every single post from this person is just endless Civil War conspiracy fearmongering.

    Every, single, post.
    I don't know how he hasn't been banned.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers


  20. #20
    The Unstoppable Force cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I think the threat a nuclear war over civil unrest in the US is a DEEPLY serious issue. I think its the single biggest threat to the human race we ever faced. Again, its not conspiracy fearmngering. There's a slew of thought by researchers, historians, and public officials that civil unrest is very close. Even Trump warns of the danger.

    Society is thundering down the wrong path. This cannot continue.
    Trump warning of the danger just pushes the idea to even less cohesiveness. There is a difference between examining the impact of a civil war in the United States' will have on the world and the future of the human race, and the chances of that civil war happening.

    Right now we have a bunch of right-wing nut jobs holding on to dear life for their racist beliefs to continue to be fed by an utter psychopath holding the White House reigns (yes, I used the word I wanted to there - think about it for a sec) while his Residency continues to crumble around his.

    I agree that it's very frightening where we have allowed the GOP to take us, but hopefully better minds are starting to prevail on their side and we'll get out of this mess. I also hope that people near Trump will keep him tied down to a ranting child instead of the man who holds the keys to all of our nuclear weapons.

    I think the biggest legitimate concern we have might come from Trump ordering an illegal attack on a country and the military being caught between two illegal choices (obeying an illegal order or disobeying a direct order from the commander in chief). I don't want to derail the conversation into a discussion on obeying illegal orders, I just wanted to express a potential concern.
    No one is above the law!

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