Classic Loot Etiquette - Have a question

[melzas]

Ah, one of those awesome classic perks I will never have to deal with ever again.

[Nobleshield]

IMHO it should follow the same rules as any other piece of BOE gear. The argument "but it sells for a lot" is essentially an excuse to justify being an asshole. If protocol for green/blue is to Need if you need, Greed if you want to sell/AH, then the rules shouldn't be changed because the color is purple instead of blue, and anyone who tries to argue that is basically trying to cover the fact they are selfish and contributed to part of what's wrong with the "social aspect" of MMOs in the first place.

[Incarnia]

Discuss the rules prior to killing the first mob in the dungeon? Safest would probably be to agree that everyone needs on epic boe's in pug groups, that way you eliminate the possibility for someone to easily ninja the item from the rest of the group.

[Dacien]

The community is pretty much agreed that you greed roll on stuff unless you're going to equip or use it, up until the item is worth X whereupon all bets are off and you're a moron if you don't hit need. X can vary from "the price of a travellers backpack, or 10g" to "Edgemasters Handguards, or 1k+".

Source: Every single other thread about loot etiquette.

I think this is accurate. Even if a BoE drops that's really good for someone in the party but it's worth like 400 gold, that's just too much money. Everyone should have a shot at that lottery ticket. Most of the time the person who can use it would be better off selling it for a crafted piece or something better anyway.

[unbound]

I have lost a few epic boe's to tanks and non casters due to the mindset that all BOE's = need. Is this considered normal for classic, as I am only familiar for what is generally agreed upon for my server.

Thoughts or opinions?

If you are running instances where important things drop, ask about the rules ahead of time.

Heck, even at lower levels, I typically ask if there are any concerns if I hit need on something even if it is clearly for my class and an upgrade.

The point of asking is that people have different views on the subject. There is no one clearly right way to deal with loot. So talk it out...after all, it is an MMO.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

I think this is accurate. Even if a BoE drops that's really good for someone in the party but it's worth like 400 gold, that's just too much money. Everyone should have a shot at that lottery ticket. Most of the time the person who can use it would be better off selling it for a crafted piece or something better anyway.

Can't that logic be used on BoP items that you can't use as well? I have passed more than 400g of loot just because I didn't press need on those plates/weapons I could sell to vendors. Thats just too much money.

[avitush]

Usually what I've seen is everyone can greed the BoE, but anyone who can actually use it (as in, equip it as an upgrade) can need roll. In those cases, I expect the person who won by need rolling to immediately equip/soulbind the item as proof that it's not going to wind up on the AH.

[Ssateneth]

Quel sellar is a warrior and paladin tanking mainhand. The warrior needed it and u all greeded for the money. Imagine people rolling need on warglaives of azzinoth because they want the vendor money. Thats what u did.

Might as well roll need on every 2h weapon from now on as they are ez money aswell.

thats different. glaives are bop. book is BOE.

everyone worked just as hard to get the BOE, and the BOE has equal value to everyone (either from using it, or gold equivalent to get an equivalent item(s)), so everyone has the same right to need on BOE, IMO.

a BOP item does NOT have equal value to everyone. an item may be bis and irreplaceable (say 100x value) for one person and vendor trash for other people. thats where need to use vs greed to vendor is used IMO.

this only applies to pugs ofc. if you run with guild, progression of guild should be kept in mind; items that further the strength the guild as a whole should to go the appropriate classes/specs

[ThrashMetalFtw]

thats different. glaives are bop. book is BOE.

everyone worked just as hard to get the BOE, and the BOE has equal value to everyone (either from using it, or gold equivalent to get an equivalent item(s)), so everyone has the same right to need on BOE, IMO.

a BOP item does NOT have equal value to everyone. an item may be bis and irreplaceable (say 100x value) for one person and vendor trash for other people. thats where need to use vs greed to vendor is used IMO.

It's the same concept.

Have had 4 epic BoE drop so far in pugs. Every time, it went to the person for whom it was BiS, and everybody else passed.

Anybody who needs on an Epic BoE just to sell, while somebody else in the grp needs because they want to use it (and said item is actually good for them), is getting instantly kicked, ignored, and put on every single blacklist/KoS list I have any kind of influence over.

[Notdev]

It's the same concept.

Have had 4 epic BoE drop so far in pugs. Every time, it went to the person for whom it was BiS, and everybody else passed.

Anybody who needs on an Epic BoE just to sell, while somebody else in the grp needs because they want to use it (and said item is actually good for them), is getting instantly kicked, ignored, and put on every single blacklist/KoS list I have any kind of influence over.

Its not the same concept. There's no justifying grabbing something for a 4g vendor price when its someone else's BiS. That is not equal, and is undeniably a douche move.
However, needing on a BoE that is BiS for someone else is justifiable because you can sell it and buy YOUR BiS. It is of equal value to you as the person who its BiS for.

Also there's no guarantee the person you're giving the BoE item to won't just turn around and sell that item on the AH.

IMO, "all need" makes the most sense on any pricey BoE drop. Its fair to everyone, but also most importantly prevents the possibility of anyone ninjaing anything.

It needs to be discussed in the group beforehand though. If the entire group agrees on a set of rules you disagree with, either drop or be prepared to follow the discussed rules.

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Usually what I've seen is everyone can greed the BoE, but anyone who can actually use it (as in, equip it as an upgrade) can need roll. In those cases, I expect the person who won by need rolling to immediately equip/soulbind the item as proof that it's not going to wind up on the AH.

How do you enforce this with something like a quest book or pattern?
Or, what if they already had the item and didn't have it equipped or quickly swapped when the item dropped so they can need on it and pretend to equip it?

"All Need" is the fairest and results in 0 ninjaing and 0 people getting screwed over. But it should be agreed upon beforehand.

[pennywise377]

I once encountered situation where Axe of the deep woods dropped in dung I tanked. I have needed it assuming everyone would (it was my experience to date). I was actually surprised that other group members only greeded. It made sense as they were 2 mages, lock and priest. I ended up winning and was congratulated but also asked to equip it. I have and we moved on, no drama.

So it really depends on the people you meet, some are greedy and only see boe as price tag, while some understand that epic may simply be an upgrade to you.

[Notdev]

I think this is accurate. Even if a BoE drops that's really good for someone in the party but it's worth like 400 gold, that's just too much money. Everyone should have a shot at that lottery ticket. Most of the time the person who can use it would be better off selling it for a crafted piece or something better anyway.

Agree 100%. Everyone put forth effort to get the BoE to drop.

[Mukind]

I have been wondering about what is considered normal loot etiquette in PUGs in Classic. So far I have seen the random BOE epic go the way of All NEED, All Greed, and of course the All Greed (wait till all 4 greed, then Ninja Need). Obviously 3 is not ok.

My circumstance is one of my own making where I still came out in the end. DM North Run and Quel'Serrar book drops. I instantly hit greed on reflex, everyone else hesitated and discussion started about everyone rolling Need. I was ass out as I had already greeded, however before the loot was assigned (main tank held his roll for last) the rest of group decided that I should be able to roll and take item if i beat them all.

Tank lost roll to a rogue and then i hit a greed roll and beat everyone. Without skipping a beat, the rogue opened trade and gave it to me. At this point the tank accuses the rogue of ninja'ing the epic because it was not for his class. Everyone disagreed with the tank as no loot rules were specified prior to the run starting AKA book on reserve.

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I have lost a few epic boe's to tanks and non casters due to the mindset that all BOE's = need. Is this considered normal for classic, as I am only familiar for what is generally agreed upon for my server.

Thoughts or opinions?

all high value BoE's are need only unless he rez'd the books and u all agreed.

It's not technically a world drop so rezzing it isn't that crazy. If he didn't do that fuck em

[Dacien]

Can't that logic be used on BoP items that you can't use as well? I have passed more than 400g of loot just because I didn't press need on those plates/weapons I could sell to vendors. Thats just too much money.

People basically do that now anyway, by all greeding. If people felt the same way about trash blues as they do about valuable boes, then you'd start to see everyone all needing on them. But they don't because that's silly.

[Emeraldon]

Did a pug Strat yesterday - epic BoE dropped from trash. All needed. Best way to do it.

[Coldfrostzero]

As a rule of thumb, don't ever start a dungeon that has potential for stuff you really want without first discussing loot rules. I generally tell people if they can use/want an item go right ahead unless someone REALLY needs it for their main spec. Simply asking when something drops what is acceptable to roll usually stops any real drama.

As a tank, I will not do a Dire Maul unless given explicit consent that the Foror's will be mine. Have yet to have a group disagree to it as people would rather get their gear than wait around for a tank all day. Though, I've had people whisper me that it's messed up to reserve a book worth ~1k gold to which I reply, "well just got a group invite, so guess you're wrong! "

[AeneasBK]

Agree 100%. Everyone put forth effort to get the BoE to drop.

Thats a dangerous argument to make

When Hand of Justice drops and the healer needs because they "put forth the same effort to get it to drop", a shitstorm would ensue (and quite rightly). Ergo, don't make this argument when talking about loot it just opens the door to even more awful behaviour :P

[Potatowizard]

Quel sellar is a warrior and paladin tanking mainhand. The warrior needed it and u all greeded for the money. Imagine people rolling need on warglaives of azzinoth because they want the vendor money. Thats what u did.

Might as well roll need on every 2h weapon from now on as they are ez money aswell.

This is such a terrible comparison. And you said it as if it were valid. No one pugged Illidan. No one pugged Illdan and left it on group loot.

If I pugged DM north and the book dropped. I am 100% going to need it. Especially over the warrior in the guild <Farts are fun> who will not be doing Onyxia any time soon and would most likely sell it himself.

Thats a dangerous argument to make

When Hand of Justice drops and the healer needs because they "put forth the same effort to get it to drop", a shitstorm would ensue (and quite rightly). Ergo, don't make this argument when talking about loot it just opens the door to even more awful behaviour :P

1g vender trinket vs a book that is at minimum 500g.

[Gorgodeus]

I remember early TBC, someone had this toxic mentality on our server. He followed through and won said item. He got a bonus prize as well, of instantly becoming a known ninja on the server. No guild or group would take him and the guy eventually just disappeared. Either name changed or migrated.

Sorry, but rolling need on BOEs in not ninjaing.

[Rotted]

Sorry, but rolling need on BOEs in not ninjaing.

5 people in a group, 1 druid healer. Healing leather pants drop, upgrade for the druid. 3 rolled greed, druid needed, warrior tank needed.

If that's not ninjaing in you're world, I hope I never have the pleasure of raiding with you.

I mean don't get me wrong. Everyone is entitled to an opinion even if its wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

This is such a terrible comparison. And you said it as if it were valid. No one pugged Illidan. No one pugged Illdan and left it on group loot.

If I pugged DM north and the book dropped. I am 100% going to need it. Especially over the warrior in the guild <Farts are fun> who will not be doing Onyxia any time soon and would most likely sell it himself.



1g vender trinket vs a book that is at minimum 500g.

So greed is your validation? And you wonder why people are arguing with you ?