Classic Loot Etiquette - Have a question

[arkanon]

BoP we don't do. Always MS>OS>Gold.

"WE" who??????

[Mukind]

"WE" who??????

The guys who set the meta for the rest of classic

Which means all of u in this fucking thread pretending like you know what loot etiquette should be are included. Cuz you in our meta

P servers decided this shit lonnnnnnng ago

Ded discussion

Prob works the same in retail too, but idk.

[arkanon]

The guys who set the meta for the rest of classic

Which means all of u in this fucking thread pretending like you know what loot etiquette should be are included. Cuz you in our meta

P servers decided this shit lonnnnnnng ago

Ded discussion

Prob works the same in retail too, but idk.

WHOA! that is some SERIOUS built up aggression. I couldnt give any less of a shit what you THINK you control or have decided, and as you can see, you are in the minority. No one cares about your weird little ego trip because you chose to illegally play wow instead of supporting Blizzard. You dont control the loot rules in any group you are not the master looter of. You are just another classic player, you are not special, you dont get to dictate what is and is not acceptable, and no one cares that you played on a private server.

[Kirbstermcgee]

WHOA! that is some SERIOUS built up aggression. I couldnt give any less of a shit what you THINK you control or have decided, and as you can see, you are in the minority. No one cares about your weird little ego trip because you chose to illegally play wow instead of supporting Blizzard. You dont control the loot rules in any group you are not the master looter of. You are just another classic player, you are not special, you dont get to dictate what is and is not acceptable, and no one cares that you played on a private server.

I mean, he's got a point. Needing for gold was SUPER rare back in vanilla and even more scarce on a p server. This new loot meta is clearly retail player confusion about how it works. But thats neither here nor there. And although you claim this need for gold or ninja loot before ninja looted is the majority of peoples opinions in classic; this is the only place I see this discussed. I've pugged many groups on my way to 60 and every group ive been in that that has happened the person was quickly booted and shamed. As all you should be for behaving in such a way.

You are right about one thing, no on dictates what is the right loot etiquette for everyone. But we do have the right to not play with trash players who assume their new meta is the way.

[Mukind]

WHOA! that is some SERIOUS built up aggression. I couldnt give any less of a shit what you THINK you control or have decided, and as you can see, you are in the minority. No one cares about your weird little ego trip because you chose to illegally play wow instead of supporting Blizzard. You dont control the loot rules in any group you are not the master looter of. You are just another classic player, you are not special, you dont get to dictate what is and is not acceptable, and no one cares that you played on a private server.

Buddy it's done we did it

We not only got classic we proved retailers are terrible

And they all play just like we did on p servers. You in the meta. You just don't know it, lol

When some one needs on a BoE and you cry and your server laughs at you, you'll know. See it all the time in world. Meta was set long before classic came out.

Live with it, lol

You don't like it? Go away

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

If you're in a pug you should not expect BOE's to be prioritized to the classes that can use it. Simple as that.

If you're in a guild run...theres probably already a system in place for how to handle those things

[Notdev]

I mean, he's got a point. Needing for gold was SUPER rare back in vanilla and even more scarce on a p server.

Dude, that's not what he said lol.

BoE means it's fungible so if sum1 did need yea no problem assuming no1 rezzed

How can people imagine they get to auto loot furors when they don't rez it? lol

When some one needs on a BoE and you cry and your server laughs at you, you'll know.

Mukind's point directly contradicts your point. It's like the exact opposite stance lol.. literally anything to get your shot at retail players..

I don't know why its so.. "slimy" "scummy" "trash" etc to think that someone making 500g selling a BoE should be equal to someone saving 500g by not having to buy the BoE. That's really what it comes down to. The only counterpoint I keep seeing is "tHaTs NoT hOw We DiD tHiNgS dArN rEtAiLeRs!!!!"

https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...s_us_a_lesson/
This thread is littered with posts saying all need in random groups is the way to go. I'm not saying Reddit's opinion is worth more than peoples' opinions here, but its clearly not just a small minority of greedy retailers who think all need is the way to go.

[Kirbstermcgee]

There is literally a button for selling items. Its called "Greed". There. Is. Literally. A. Gold. Icon. Next. To. It. If you are rolling for gold, you click that! Hard concept I know right?

[arkanon]

There is literally a button for selling items. Its called "Greed". There. Is. Literally. A. Gold. Icon. Next. To. It. If you are rolling for gold, you click that! Hard concept I know right?

And if someone in the group starts hitting need, and you suspect it is for selling, what do you do? Leave the group? Fly back to town and replace them (if you are leader)? or, like the majority of people in all these threads, start hitting need as well?

[Kirbstermcgee]

And if someone in the group starts hitting need, and you suspect it is for selling, what do you do? Leave the group? Fly back to town and replace them (if you are leader)? or, like the majority of people in all these threads, start hitting need as well?

So again, you ninja loot on the assumption someone else is? That still makes you a ninja looter. If you create that meta then you create an environment that is more toxic for everyone else, rather than singling out a thief and making it known and moving on you become a thief yourself.

[arkanon]

So again, you ninja loot on the assumption someone else is? That still makes you a ninja looter. If you create that meta then you create an environment that is more toxic for everyone else, rather than singling out a thief and making it known and moving on you become a thief yourself.

I have said similar many, many times. But reading through them, the majority believe this is the correct "solution". I have stated my opinion - that all it does is encourage the behavior, but it doesnt matter - this is the real "meta" - as soon as anyone hits need one something they dont need, everyone just starts rolling need.

[Jurwi]

"All Greed" works only when there are no dicks in the group. And the "Better" Classic community is full of dicks.

[Fluttershy]

So again, you ninja loot on the assumption someone else is? That still makes you a ninja looter. If you create that meta then you create an environment that is more toxic for everyone else, rather than singling out a thief and making it known and moving on you become a thief yourself.

its a cutthroat world out there, a dad gamer like you should find a safer game.

[andrewjoy]

And what if the person who's claiming he can use it will turn around and sell it on the AH?
Force him to equip it? What if he already had one and quickly swapped out when he saw one dropped so he would be given another, so he could go and sell it on the AH?
How do you enforce this with books and patterns?
How do you make the decision when people are talking about OS loot? What if they claim the role they are in the instance in is their OS and they are only playing that OS for that particular dungeon?

Trust in basic human decency ?

[Raelbo]

5 people in a group, 1 druid healer. Healing leather pants drop, upgrade for the druid. 3 rolled greed, druid needed, warrior tank needed.

If that's not ninjaing in you're world, I hope I never have the pleasure of raiding with you.

It all depends on whether the healing pants are BoE or BoP.

If they're BoP, the warrior is the ninja.
If they're BoE, the druid is the ninja.

The philosophy around who is entitled to BoE items is fundamentally different from BoP items. That is why they are BoE and not simply BoP.

The key point here is that a BoE is essentially a gold prize, the value of which depends on the market. Therefore the potential value of the item is equal for everyone in the party.

For argument's sake, let's say that the healing pants in question sell on the AH for 500g. The druid in question can very easily go and buy those healing pants off the AH for 500g. Therefore, winning the item when it drops is worth 500g to him (either 500g that he would save from not having to buy the item, or the 500g that he would get if he elected to auction it off). That is exactly the same as it is worth for anyone else in the party (who could also sell it for 500g). Because the item is equally valuable to everyone in the group, it would actually be poor etiquette for anyone to roll need on it. That being said, since you can't trust individuals to act honorably, the most practical way of dealing with it is to all agree upfront that everyone will roll need on BoE items.

For a BoP item it's fundamentally different. A BoP item would normally be worth a lot more to someone for whom it's an upgrade than someone who would vendor it and this is why needing on a BoP item that you are not going to get actual use out of is poor etiquette. The only time this would not be true would be if the item vendored for so much that even a person for whom it would be an upgrade would rather just vendor it for gold.

[Raelbo]

if people are needing on a BOE they dont need, then they are a ninja.

Lol, no they aren't. How on earth can you make a comment like this, considering what was written directly above? /facepalm

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So again, you ninja loot on the assumption someone else is? That still makes you a ninja looter. If you create that meta then you create an environment that is more toxic for everyone else, rather than singling out a thief and making it known and moving on you become a thief yourself.

Or you could do like the rogue in the OP did and give those who lost out on the roll due the original ninja a chance to roll on the loot.

In practical terms, people should just accept that everyone rolling need on BoE's is the most sensible approach. Yes, everybody should be rolling greed, but if everybody rolls need it amounts to the same outcome, with the massive benefit of not having to rely on the etiquette of everyone else in the group and the potential fight that is likely to ensue.

[MrKnubbles]

You didn't mention your class or role but I'm going to guess that you're a non-Warrior and non-Paladin dps and want to sell that book on the AH. If someone in the group is going to use the item, they should get it. I've rolled Need on BoEs in dungeons but I tell the group that I need it and will use it. Nobody seems to care, however, those were blue items.

[Super Kami Dende]

I remember early TBC, someone had this toxic mentality on our server. He followed through and won said item. He got a bonus prize as well, of instantly becoming a known ninja on the server. No guild or group would take him and the guy eventually just disappeared. Either name changed or migrated.

People always say this as if it is some boogeyman superstition that ninja-ing an Item will have you blacklisted forever. The funny thing is that only happens if you are a shit player.

If you are in anyway competent at your class you will find groups regardless of your Reputation. One of my Guilds in TBC was known for being full of trolls and Ninjas yet we would fill a raid group nearly instantly because People knew the content was going to be cleared.

So basically, if you are going to be Bad, at least be Good.

[Raelbo]

yes they are

No. They. Aren't.

If you need an item you dont need you're a ninja

This is only true for BoP items (which is NOT what this thread is about) or if everyone else rolled greed and you then rolled need (again, NOT what this thread is about). Everyone in the group has an equally legitimate need for a BoE because BoE's can be traded which makes the BoE equally valuable to everyone.

and i will have no problem with kicking you from the group.

And by all means, that would be your right. But understand that doing so makes you the dick, not the person you're falsely accusing of being a ninja.

Why people think they are entitled to other people gear so they can sell it for mount money i have no idea.

Gee, if only someone could have explained it in a nice, logical and easy to understand manner.....

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You didn't mention your class or role but I'm going to guess that you're a non-Warrior and non-Paladin dps and want to sell that book on the AH.

Seems likely.

If someone in the group is going to use the item, they should get it.

Why?

You're applying BoP principles to a BoE item. BoE items were made differently for a specific purpose. As such they should be treated differently. That BoE is essentially just a fat pile of gold to whomever wins it. Why should the tank be more entitled to said fat pile of gold than anyone else in the party?

BoE's, by design, may be meant for use by specific classes, but they're meant to be won by anyone.

[Charge me Doctor]

So you agree that there is a nuance in that, but not needing an item that is an upgrade and GREEDING at item you want to sell? There is even a gold coin next to the selection, its clear as day. Seriously guys, I dont know why you are trying so hard to prove you arent a thief. Just admit it and move on.

There is no nuance in that, if you NEED a BoE you BUY it from auction house. When you NEED a BoE with intent of equipping it you effectively roll GREED on X gold token, where X is a cost of that item on auction house.

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So again, you ninja loot on the assumption someone else is?

Kinda. Look up prisoners dilemma. You do roll need all the time on BoE, because it's a most reasonable strategy in an environment where you can't trust other players to not roll need.

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If you create that meta then you create an environment that is more toxic for everyone else

It's not toxic, it's the right answer in this situation and game theory proves that.