NO it is not, obviously. But making the argument about "effort required to make the thing drop" doesn't take that into account which is why I said "quite rightly" about the shitstorm, and that it was a bad argument to make in the whole "how should you roll/etiquette" discussion.
- - - Updated - - -
It's not really a discussion, its mostly just people who can accept that they have a threshold over which their greed overules the standard expected behaviour, and people who refuse to admit it, and throw semantic arguments under the bus in an attempt to validate themselves.
If that weren't true, everyone would need roll on every item that drops all the time and that would be the standard. But it isn't because when some crabby green "Of the wolf" item drops and the hunter needs everyone else doesn't care because the value of the item is under that threshold.
It only means that 3 of those dudes don't need gold, since they virtually passed on that item without a good reason. Unless it was well communicated that this druid has dibs on boe then it wasn't ninjaing
- - - Updated - - -
I think that some people has this weird concept about boe items that they are... you know, just items. Boe piece is basically an item token for another boe that you may want. For fucks sake, you can mail it to your guildmate, or an alt. Boe pieces are way more than just an item that you'd otherwise sell for minuscule amount of gold.
I mean, if i for some inexplicable reason would end up in a DM pug and this book dropped - i would instantly sold it to get recipe and reagents to BiS crafted robe. But in reality this book would go straight to my guild warrior, who then would ran me through BRS for me to get that recipe anyways... so it's still an investment.
Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2019-10-22 at 03:39 PM.
Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
You should always need on epic unless if specified. You got lucky the rogue gave the item to you. I would have kept it or asked you to roll higher than the roll that made me win against the others. If the item would be worth a lot and you'd be in a pug, I would have never gave it even if you won.
Gotta use your brain in these scenarios, dont be naive man. Always need, if everyone else greed then you can ask everyone to roll for a fair chance. This way your ass is always backed.
Yep same. I'm not going to pass on anything from 50g to (in the case of Foror's) 1k+ just so that someone can have an upgrade that they might (or likely will) put on the AH anyway. I always roll need.
- - - Updated - - -
Not the same thing at all; glaives weren't BOE epics and the scale isn't close at all. Cute false equivalency, though.
I wasn't disagreeing with you in general, i just don't think that "put forth the same effort to get it to drop" is a bad argument. It's all about value, and off course in a pug value is skewered towards myself (as in "i'm not going to pass on that BoE item, because there is another guy who would benefit from it", or "i'm not going to pass on ironfoe, because there is another warrior in my group and his weapon is slightly worse"), but you'd pass on that item if you were in a guild run, because chances are that this guy who'll get that upgrade would stick around for next month or so.
Sure, that healer who'd roll on a BoP trinket has his right to roll on it - but why would he? (besides acting like an ass) It benefits him as much as a bunch of gray quality furs, if this imaginary person feels this way he may just call dibs on all shitty gray items that drop all the time.
Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
Context matters
I agree the Warrior was in the wrong there. The stance needs to be made clear beforehand. Or the least the Warrior can do is say "sorry for needing, but I believe we are all entitled to the BoE just as much as the Druid healer." and give it to the person who rolled highest.
It should be the standard.
I asked in my servers LFG chat, and they mostly agreed. Reddit also agrees, especially mostly in response to that ninja from Asmon's guild.
Its the fairest practice, a guaranteed anti-ninja practice, and guaranteed to not favor those who need under the guise of needing it and then turn around and sell it.
Well, if people start using the argument that "they put the same effort in to get X therefore they have equal right to it" then *That* would be why they would. Which is why its a terrible argument to use in a discussion about who should get what loot. I don't know that I could put it any clearer, so not sure why you still feel it isn't a bad argument, because you kinda rule it out as reasoning immediately...
I do remember Amulet of Cainwyn dropped in Strat live and the hunter insta-needed, and the paladin said, "Hey, I really need that!" So I needed too with the intention of trading to the pally (I genuinely believed they were going to equip it over their green neck). Pally won the roll anyway.
Fast forward after a wipe and the hunter links the pally green neck (pally never equipped the BoE), and the pally flew into a rage, accusing the hunter of stalking, said they were carrying the group so count yourself lucky, and on and on.
I never looked, but there's no way they didn't sell it. I felt like a sucker
I don't get the ALL NEED on stuff that should be greed. Not only is just confusing, but what if someone needs it ?
Lets say a BiS blue drops in a 5 man and one person needs it and will use it right there. On the all NEED system that item can go to someone who will put it on the AH and the person who was going to use it will lose out.
It takes a level of trust to be sure and honestly in classic if you do dodgy shit your going to get a name for yourself, you cannot just hide like you can now.
Power corrupts, unlimited power... is even more fun!
Blues are much different than epics in that most of them aren't worth much. If one of the level 19 twink weapons drop they should be needed by everyone because they're worth gold on par with some epics and you'd have to be an idiot to equip it for 3-4 levels rather than cash in so everyone should have a shot. The only time it gets a *little* more dicey is when it comes to legit BIS items but even then I'm strongly in the "everyone should get a roll because Edgemaster's can be flipped into some of my BIS items" camp.
And what if the person who's claiming he can use it will turn around and sell it on the AH?
Force him to equip it? What if he already had one and quickly swapped out when he saw one dropped so he would be given another, so he could go and sell it on the AH?
How do you enforce this with books and patterns?
How do you make the decision when people are talking about OS loot? What if they claim the role they are in the instance in is their OS and they are only playing that OS for that particular dungeon?
All need solves all these problems. It is the simplest solution. You lost the roll on your BiS item? Well you might win someone else's BiS item later and you can sell it and buy your BiS item!
Edit: I also think people are overstating the effect blacklisting has. A wide majority of people never read chat unless they are actively searching for a group. Also people who are in big raiding guilds might not care if someone attempts to blacklist them for a variety of reasons.
Last edited by Notdev; 2019-10-22 at 04:03 PM.
Having a right to an item is basically a roll window popping up and giving you a choice which roll you are going to make, everyone who participated in a dungeon has a right to roll on an item, nothing stops you from rolling need on it but yourself, that's the whole point. A discussion about who should get what loot rarely happens in a pug anyways.
Having a right to an item doesn't mean that it automatically belongs to you, it's just gives you an option to make a decision - do you think that you need those 1g from selling that blue item? The right answer is "no", because this 1g is barely worth getting kicked out of a dungeon, you'll get this 1g on next pack of mobs most likely. So, if you feel like rolling need on an item you don't need - go for it, but don't be surprised when you'll have to look for another group, losing hours of your gametime for just 1g.
Basically what i mean that any party member has a right for any item dropped in a dungeon, it's up to them if they want to end their run right here and right now by doing something stupid like rolling on a bis item of another class just to piss them off. I don't mean that you should roll on BiS BoPs of other classes because you feel like you need this 1-5g from vendoring it, if you really that short on cash you just ask people to dump their trash into you, it'll give you much more gold for that run than getting kicked out of dungeon right away.
That's why we had this "disenchant" option back in wotlk - because people started needing on literally everything in random dungeons; and later some roles has lost their right to roll on items they can't use (which kinda makes sense to me, but sadly it's not implemented in game, and following that logic eventually leads us to "personal loot" conclusion which many players don't like for some reason)
- - - Updated - - -
I was allegedly blacklisted by a "whole guild" on my server for winning a +1hit +spd waist in BRD from a warlock. Later that night i was in 3 more BRD runs with people rfom that guild. I asked about that warlock and they've told me that it's a cesspool guild that mirrors /world chat and nobody cares about him. Damn, those "i'll blacklist you" are more pathetic than players in FPS games who yell that they'll "ban you" for outplaying them or taking "their spot"
Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary