Corrupted gear sounds like a horrible idea

[mvaliz]

Wrong.
Blizzard design the whole game, not only what you consider good.
If blizzard design MAJOR avenue of the games arround minmaxing (PVP by nature, timer on m+ and no worthwhile loot in raids beside in Myhtic Raids, which is tuned arround minmaxing) then its their fault and not your delusions about being butthurt about guilds.

Ummm... that's exactly my point? It's all on Blizz's fault if this goes over badly. Really depends on if the pros for the gear can outweight the cons (or if there's a way to scrub the curse off).

Sounds like my post struck a nerve in your psyche that what you realize what I said is actually true.

And I'm not "buthurt about guilds" at all as I have been part of the same high-level raiding guild since Vanilla. Despite being gone for more than a year due to RL things, I'm always welcome back there. ^_^

[Taeldorian]

We will see. I mean look at Benthic gear. Just 425 without a socket on some pieces is beating out mythic level gear. I fear this will be the same thing. Plus there's a string that was datamined about purifying the gear. If that doesn't mean "remove corruption and the buff" then you will just get a piece and purify it to wear more.

This won’t be like benthic because mythic gear will also have the effects unlike just the 425s.

And yeah we need to see the whole system imo. Not enough info for me to really decide if it’s gsrbage (imo) or not.

[kamuimac]

As a healer im really hyped about new wave of kamikaze DPS players who will tell me to git gud while wearing -200% healing received gear.

thats clearly "git gud mr healer" problem

[Softbottom]

These items/effects are fucking stupid. Whoever thought this shit up needs to be fired lol.

[mvaliz]

...you just described how it's not fun to plan out gear via spreadsheets and then described why you should work with your guild to plan out loot in the best manner...which would be via spreadsheets.

I get what you're saying, but I also have to say it really doesn't take a spreadsheet to understand "Rogue raiding weapon goes to good raiding Rogue". :P

Blizzard themselves killed this in two ways: personal loot and RNG gear upgrades. Can't coordinate who gets the drops from a boss if everyone has an item generated in their inventory and then said item can't be delegated to someone who actually would see a significant increase.

I can't discuss that as I've been gone since they implemented Personal Loot as global thing. That's for others and you to debate. :P

[Argorwal]

...you just described how it's not fun to plan out gear via spreadsheets and then described why you should work with your guild to plan out loot in the best manner...which would be via spreadsheets.

Blizzard themselves killed this in two ways: personal loot and RNG gear upgrades. Can't coordinate who gets the drops from a boss if everyone has an item generated in their inventory and then said item can't be delegated to someone who actually would see a significant increase.

Well, one of these is working with your guild on a boss by boss and guild by build basis to try what works best.

The other is ticking checkboxes off a spreadsheet.

Totally the same.

And yeah untradeable PL sucks.

Make all PL tradeable always and it's pretty good.

[TyrianFC]

I love the new system so far. People here are bloody silly, do you want everything to be a stat stick? This is way more interesting.

[sam86]

i admit it does sound bad idea, but still interesting that makes me want to see how it will work
so while i agree with u, i still want to see new idea even if bad, it will just stay 1 patch anyway if bad (hopefully)

[Asrialol]

Just another layer of RNG on top of shitty RNG, because you're pretty much right. There might be a sweet spot for it before the effects get too bad, but then comes more simcrafting, or situations where you get a super good upgrade but it'll put you over the edge on corruption, making either it or a previous good drop useless.

Over all pretty much what I expect from Blizzard at this point.

Must be fun being so negative towards a game. Are you actively playing?

[Arrashi]

I love the new system so far. People here are bloody silly, do you want everything to be a stat stick? This is way more interesting.

Im sure more swirlies to get out of will be riveting addition to game.

[Marrilaife]

At that point you might as well just have a raid scale with overall ilvl ( which would be terrible). People already complain that 4 difficulties is too much but atleast there are a couple curves ball thrown at you. If it was literally the exact same fight and mechanics with just slightly higher damage it would be even worse...

People in lfr already do maybe 5-10% of what the top players do, not only due to gear disparity but due to low performance in that lower gear. Maybe reduce the number of difficulties to 2-3 instead of 4 but the disparity between lfr "0 mechanics because you can ignore everything, except falling off platforms" and mythic "20 mechanics that can wipe you even if only 1 person out of 20 fucked up" means that first, it doesn't even feel like the same raid anymore, second, mythic leaves no room for adding "fun" twists from gear, rotation or talents because majority of attention span has to go on fight mechanics, unless you're in the 0.01% of gaming pros or you use rotation bot (people got banned for that in the past, so yeah, it was a reality).

And the raid design clearly suggests Blizzard starts from heroic as a "base point" then adds / trims mechanics from there, often leaving fights in either too hard or too easy state in specific difficulties. They also balance around 20 man baseline even for flex difficulties meaning some fights are really bad with full 30 or only 10 people. Reducing number of variables at each level could help to make the fights more balanced between each other, between difficulties and between different raid sizes.

Mechanic overload means that also often we get recycled mechanics lumped together, and rarely new and interesting mechanic, because if you have to put 20 in every fight, the creativity runs out.

To return complexity in classes, talents and gear, there needs to be some trimmed from raids, otherwise all that extra complexity will inevitably feel like a burden and not "fun twist".

Now that we have Classic, it would be a good idea to ask if there's some middle ground between Classic's Baron Geddon and modern Kil'jaeden or Azshara.

Why did we have 3 waves of "ability pruning" dumbing down classes and specs, while all the complexity got moved from a player's character to the outside world - encounter and gear design. People went from weak auras tracking trinkets, class procs and ability cooldowns to weak auras tracking raid boss abilities instead.

[Jazzhands]

There are hundreds of thousands of successful PUG runs every day. If you "always have trouble with PUGs" you should consider that the only common element in all of your failures is you.

PUGs/casuals won't be in full corrupted gear, and you'll be able to easily exclude people who might be if you so choose.

I never said I always have trouble with pugs and fail all the time. A "successful" pug can still be awful if I feel like I have to carry the DPS because they're always getting hit by avoidable mechanics. Almost every time a DPS messes up and gets hit by an avoidable mechanic, you know who has to make up for it? The healer. This adds even more ways for bad DPS to mess up, thus even more things the healers going to have to deal with, on top of the initial debuff causing a slow that makes it more likely for DPS to mess up normal fight mechanics.

And on top of that, these DPS typically do crap numbers to begin with, and whatever they gain from this gear won't exactly help much. You can check gear and IO all you want, there are plenty of bad DPS with +10s done because it's possible for healers/good DPS to carry, and the sad thing is the more healers carry the lazier DPS get. You never really know how good someone will be until the run starts.

All it takes is 40 corruption (2-3 pieces of gear based on current numbers) to get the 3 acceptable debuff procs, and bad DPS will follow this because they see top end players doing it and Icy Veins will tell them to.

Thankfully, the 60 corruption debuff (60% more damage taken 60% less healing) is a permanent debuff and will make it easy to weed out bad players.

[Kralljin]

I agree, which is another issue entirely with the super RNG drops we have now and no way to tweak them to our liking.

I don't view "super RNG drops" as the core issue.
The core issue is that you have too many sources of gear floating around that made an RNG system a necessity to keep gear as character progression intact past the first week(s).

Titanforging is just another symptom, i'd rather tackle the cause than create systems around the symptons.

[Jazzhands]

Must be fun being so negative towards a game. Are you actively playing?

Yes, both live and Classic. It's almost as if I like some aspects of the game and dislike others. Most people don't 100% like or dislike games, nothing is perfect.

[CrawlFromThePit]

That's what tier sets are for.

There's tons of ways to make interesting items without forcing players to equip 2 of the same thing to get something from them and then feel bad for breaking these bonuses when changing 1 piece of a set. Set items are only a decent design when compared to the bland regular items, but there is millions of ways to make items more interesting than the concept of sets.

[naeblis495]

so it's titan forging .

But even more rng ?

they are trying at least with some effect instead of pure stats but it's still garbage .

[Sangris]

oj jezus

this is more funny then i imagined.

so layers atm :

1 roll - coruption level
2 roll - increase level
3 type of increase - if its bis or garbage
4 roll socket
5 roll wf
6 roll tertiary

and then on top op it grinding corruption reduction currency

im already getting my popcorn ready .

/insert thisisthemostevilthing meme

people will literaly beg Ion to bring tf back after week of 8.3.

So they manage to replace a horseshit RNG system with an even more horseshit RNG system. What is it with their goddamn RNG fetish? Just remove all that crap alltogether and have normal items like they used to. No random socketing, no titanforging, no warforging and especially not this abomination.

[Kralljin]

"people stop playing if they reach BiS" (which is a source needed claim anyways, but whatver)

Yes and No.

Back then, getting BiS gear took you quite some time, even weeks after a Raid instance release you had a bunch of items from the previous raid, getting BiS was a goal for a lot of people but took them a varying amount of time.
Getting BIS was simply a long journey and once you reached it, next content was for a lot of people already on the horizon.
On top of that, it usually involved raiding and thus guilds, guilds aren't exactly fond of people that constantly quit only to come back a few months later.

In the current enviroment, you can reach a state of Heroic Ilvl within days due to M+ (which would be the maximum for anyone that doesn't raid mythic, which has a hard barrier of 20 people and server restriction), i doubt people would then seriously bother to also farm the "perfect" stats for their character.
Under this light, the Titanforging system has a point, because what previously took months can now be done by farming a bunch of M+.

However, rather than tackling the loot quantity and restore gear as a proper progression system, Blizzard started to tinker with the Loot quality.
Which resulted in the titanforged system and all its extremely negative side effects.

Don't take this as a defense for the titanforged system, but i think it is important to follow their line of thought to understand the decision to see where they went wrong.

[wych]

More bullshit RNG and Titanforged BS, thank God for classic.

Who needs the feeling of actual character progression and working towards something when you can spin the wheel on the slot machine baby

[Tang0]

Thanks for clarifying that you have no clue about mythic raiding.

I may very well be out of touch. Care to educate me?

Your post indicates you can’t progress unless you get lucky titanforge gear. Is that a reality for you? Then kindly look at the previous post again, I have a solution for you there.