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  1. #641
    Over 9000! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    ...Because when Warforging was introduced, World quests didn't exist and raiding was seen as the general goal of endgame content, of course Warforging only existed within raiding when it was the only real endgame content.
    Right. So world quests have nothing to do with it. Blizzard has just been evolving the concept and making use of the mechanic in other spots.

    That aside, as already explained, this doesn't affect anyone who has set their sight on raid content because they skip World quest content anyway.
    If other people want to do that as well, they have to do M+0 during the early days already and that is quite frankly too difficult for most people in just questing greens.
    So then any world content is invalidated as soon as LFR comes out. Congratulations you had an entire system redesigned just to be ignored in a few weeks. Except by those who don't do LFR. Then they have to struggle and have a hard to with world content while the rest of the game breezes through it. Creating a bigger disparity because no everyone feels like the have to raid or do Mythic+ just so they can do any world content.

    If the entire system is built upon quick consumption then slowing one down just because is dumb.

    No, i simply want a decent, meaningful character progression without random bullshit, for that, character progression simply needs to be slower, because these random elements were not necessary when the overall character progression was simply slower.
    But you only want that to apply to non-raid content. You said nothing about slowing down raids and having a slow non-random character progression with raids. You only said world content was bad. This is the problem. You say one thing and then show your underlying bias. You have something against people getting stuff through world content instead of through raids like they used to have to. Until you figure that out and can look at things subjectively and "game design" you talk about is going to suck for the sole fact it is biased just because.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So then any world content is invalidated as soon as LFR comes out.
    Spoiler alert: LFR is currently already invalidated before it even comes out due to M+0.
    So yeah, that little issue might already exist in the current game.

    That aside, LFR doesn't invalidate that content right away.
    Because LFR only gives like 1-2 items per ID (which means you need a lot of LFR runs to get all the items there) and requires a set Ilvl to queue up.

    Simply because LFR is out, doesn't mean World quests become pointless, they only become pointless if you think having the chance on an item out of LFR no longer gives you any incentive to do World quests.
    Because LFR is actually by comparison rather stingy when it comes to handing out loot.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Then they have to struggle and have a hard to with world content while the rest of the game breezes through it.
    How can you struggle with World content in a world where CRZ exists?
    If you struggle with a something that hands out rewards, there will most likely be also other people that want to do this, so you create a group, invite other people and complete that.
    That's how literally every world quest works that involves killing a mob with more than 1M Hp for the average player.

    Where in the world is the struggle?
    Even with fresh blue gear, no world content outside of Nazjatar provides any serious resistance unless you expect to pull 10+ mobs and live through it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But you only want that to apply to non-raid content.
    Where did i say this?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You only said world content was bad.
    Quote me on that, where i said that *only* world content was bad.

    You just read that into my post, because i critize the reward system of world content, which is absolutely true.
    Does this mean i like the reward structure for raiding or anything above world content?
    No, because else i would have said this, you are just reading this into my post because you want to.

    I've already said it why i ignored that from this discussion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Partially because the entire system is built upon this extremely quick consumption, not just World quest, but in Dungeons that is partially tied to M+, Personal loot and the overall loot quantity within the raids, which is another topic.
    But that is a paragraph that you just completely ignored.

    I am ignoring this not because i want don't want to change that, but because it is another discussion and i quite frankly have no interest in starting this debate with a person who constantly accuses me of a bias, which you simply want to read out my posts so you can accuse me of having one.

    Sorry, but the discussion regarding PL is simply a huge one, same goes for reward structure of M+, so i'd rather stick the current topic than expand this even further.

    I've stated what i want, that applies to the entire game, if something goes against that, it should be changed, it's that simple.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-10-27 at 03:03 AM.

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Simply because LFR is out, doesn't mean World quests become pointless, they only become pointless if you think having the chance on an item out of LFR no longer gives you any incentive to do World quests.
    Because LFR is actually by comparison rather stingy when it comes to handing out loot.
    Because LFR was designed for collectors and tourists who has no intention to get into raids. But it serves its purpose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    How can you struggle with World content in a world where CRZ exists?
    If you struggle with a something that hands out rewards, there will most likely be also other people that want to do this, so you create a group, invite other people and complete that.
    That's how literally every world quest works that involves killing a mob with more than 1M Hp for the average player.
    This is your problem, you cannot understand that variety of people playing this game. There are a lot of people who casually play the game and their skill is below average.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Where in the world is the struggle?
    Even with fresh blue gear, no world content outside of Nazjatar provides any serious resistance unless you expect to pull 10+ mobs and live through it.
    Struggle as in taking way too much time, being not fun and pulling mobs one by one. That is struggle, not that is uber hard. But believe me, there are a lot of bad players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    You just read that into my post, because i critize the reward system of world content, which is absolutely true.
    Does this mean i like the reward structure for raiding or anything above world content?
    No, because else i would have said this, you are just reading this into my post because you want to.

    I've already said it why i ignored that from this discussion:
    Out of any reward systems, World quest have probably the best one. Least invasive with some clear progression path.
    Like it doesnt have the problem of powergearing you with couple of minutes like M+ does. It doesn't have the problem of raid loot RNG (you know what you will get).
    And it doesn't go anywhere near the max ilvl.

    And this guy rhole is right. You are just making a lot of assumptions based solely on your point of view.
    Now imagine elderly guy with bad eyesight and coordination problems playing freshly leveled shadow priest who only has couple of hours weekly to play.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Because LFR was designed for collectors and tourists who has no intention to get into raids. But it serves its purpose.
    Thats what LFR have become.

    LFR was originally designed with great hopes to deliver endgame for casuals.

    It failed. And since then, only Mythic+ and world quests were created.

  5. #645
    For some reason when I read this title, I flashed back to a scene from Road to Perdition where Tom Hanks character is talking about another person as a murderer, and Paul Newman said, "There are only murderers in this room!" (meaning that everyone in the room was a murderer).

    When you say that corrupted gear sounds like a horrible idea, I thought that when it comes to gear progression, all the ideas in the room at Blizzard are horrible. They have been since MOP. Why should this be any different? They're hopelessly committed to the casino.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You are just making a lot of assumptions based solely on your point of view.
    Now imagine elderly guy with bad eyesight and coordination problems playing freshly leveled shadow priest who only has couple of hours weekly to play.
    Ofcourse people explain things out of their point of view, I think majority of the players arent like the one in your example.

    And you cannot take that extreme example into account in every aspect of the game, how would the game look if thats where the focus was?

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    Ofcourse people explain things out of their point of view, I think majority of the players arent like the one in your example.

    And you cannot take that extreme example into account in every aspect of the game, how would the game look if thats where the focus was?
    Thats why nowadays the game tries to cater to a lot of people, tries to keep everyone happy, thats what kaminaris probably meant, blizz nowadays wants to keep the hardcore mythic raider who has 5 geared alts and the casual guy who plays 2 hours a day happy, thats why they moved away from vanilla system when only a handful of players saw a raid.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Because LFR was designed for collectors and tourists who has no intention to get into raids. But it serves its purpose.
    ...yes?
    I mean, what's your point here?

    Did i say "yeah, let's remove LFR!"?
    No, i didn't, you just read that into my post for some reason.

    Matter of fact, LFR is more healthy in its reward structure than something like M+ when looking at the game as a whole.
    However, right now, LFR has bascially become the storymode because M+0 allows you to earn like 10+ LFR level items within a single week, which invalidates LFR to a large degree.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    There are a lot of people who casually play the game and their skill is below average.
    For that to make sense, you would have to assume that their skill level is even below the ability to join or create a group via the groupfinder tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Struggle as in taking way too much time, being not fun and pulling mobs one by one. That is struggle, not that is uber hard. But believe me, there are a lot of bad players.
    And the solution would be to simply give those rewards right off the bat?
    If you give people the rewards they get from doing content too quickly, you just invalidate that content.

    If you have all the gear from World content, you're not going back to that unless it hands out better rewards.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Like it doesnt have the problem of powergearing you with couple of minutes like M+ does.
    No, not at all, you just jump like 50+ Ilvl within hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Now imagine elderly guy with bad eyesight and coordination problems playing freshly leveled shadow priest who only has couple of hours weekly to play.
    Why not just let the guy play World content rather having outgear that World content within days of playing?

    Let people pick their own progression, then present a decent reward structure within that frame.
    If someone is too bad to even do M+0, then simply let them have a decent character progression within the frame of World content.

    If your concept of "decent character progression" is that you outgear that content within days, then we disagree on that, because as explained already, Blizzard has an obvious interest in putting in mechanics into the game to keep people playing (meaning, to make character progression), thus you need systems that presents upgrades for these players because you just handed them a buttload of rewards earlier.

    As a personal note, it's so damn ironic that you keep accusing me of "only looking at things from my PoV", yet you keep reading things into my posts that i have never said.
    You just read my posts "oh, he's one of those assholes!" and use the same arguments, despite them not making a lick of sense within that context.
    Your very first paragraph on LFR is proof of that, look through this entire thread and quote me where i even implied that LFR should be removed, you just pulled that argument out of your ass because you assumed i hold that stance, which i don't.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-10-27 at 12:44 PM.

  9. #649
    I know im not the target audience to this "feature" but anyway, i hate this kind of design.

    When you put something in your videogame that makes players say "I WANT THAT"...for the love of Budah, make a system where you can target that said thing.

    Blizzard created some imaginative things, i for one would want the +Leech corrupted bonus on my demon hunter.
    But now what?
    I CANT target it.

    I want the +leech...and i have absolutely no idea if in 3 months i will ever get it.

    Horrible (for me), because its gating customization behind a wall of RNG.
    Last edited by Shadoowpunk; 2019-10-27 at 02:15 PM.

  10. #650
    Stood in the Fire
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    It doesnt "sound", it is. IF I play the next patch (up until now, I passed 8.0 live, 8.1 and 90% of 8.2) Im simply going to vendor/disenchant any "corrupted" gear I might get (though I dont have any interested in retail raiding because of the whole casino thing)

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by pinelakias View Post
    It doesnt "sound", it is. IF I play the next patch (up until now, I passed 8.0 live, 8.1 and 90% of 8.2) Im simply going to vendor/disenchant any "corrupted" gear I might get (though I dont have any interested in retail raiding because of the whole casino thing)
    Yeah the very first negative effect, "has a chance to get slowed on hit" is already too much for me. That is one of the things I hate the most in the game. It's like a permanent aspect of the cheetah, only that it has no movement increase portion. So it's just the negative effect and you can't turn it off.

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by pinelakias View Post
    It doesnt "sound", it is. IF I play the next patch (up until now, I passed 8.0 live, 8.1 and 90% of 8.2) Im simply going to vendor/disenchant any "corrupted" gear I might get (though I dont have any interested in retail raiding because of the whole casino thing)
    I think you're gonna want to use at least some of that gear, as it will be a huge boost to your dps.

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