Forgive and “not” forget.

[VladlTutushkin]

Christ, this stuff is so saccharine it gave me diabetes. They all say and think the same.

Do you remember when dwarves were imperialists and Dark Irons in particular were slavers? The only one who's acting like a normal person who just waged a war with a genocidal enemy is Tyrande and we all know how that's going to end with her, given how everyone else who disagrees with Anduin ends up either exiting stage left or becoming a clone.

Thats what i pointed out. Also they even gave Tyrande “super evul” voice to show even more how “wrong” she is.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

When Jaina did not forget Theramore and wanted revenge, she was also viewed by some as 'crazy'

People are so used to Alliance leaders being peace-loving wussies that when someone has a logical reaction like Tyrande, people view her as 'crazy' as well...

[mysticx]

The Horde will not "keep" them (they never had them). But the Night Elves will not get them back either. Blizzard will simply not update the zones and tell everybody that "lorewise yadda yadda..." just like after SoO, when the Horde was removed from Ashenvale.
They will only update those zones again when they give the Horde another chance to butcher more Night Elves for whatever purpose.

They'll just pull a "Hordaclysm" again, in some book they'll pay lip service to the Horde totally giving it all back, and in-game everything will still be full of Horde NPCs and stuff...

[Aphrel]

I still wanna know how alliance went from a landslide win to a "desperate last stand" against sylvanas. WHAT HAPPEND?!

[VladlTutushkin]

I still wanna know how alliance went from a landslide win to a "desperate last stand" against sylvanas. WHAT HAPPEND?!

Blizz hack and talentless writing happened.

[Lane]

Anduin, Velen, Shandris, the Council of Three Hammers, Velen, Greymane (let's be real, he won't oppose his ideal son), Alleria, Turalyon, Jaina, and Mekkatorque vs. Tyrande.

I'm annoyed, but not surprised, that the Alliance didn't splinter. Anduin and Greymane may have an adoptive father/son relationship, but I felt there was plenty of foundation for Genn, Tyrande, and Jaina to form their own crew with the outside possibility of recruiting Alleria and Moira. Anduin and Velen will always be lost causes for anything that isn't lawful good, perhaps Turalyon too.

I'm also not convinced Malfurion completely has Tyrande's back either. I hate to say it, but whoever mentioned a GoT S8 ending with Malfurion killing Tyrande for the 'greater good' I can sadly see Blizzard doing.

[Hyral]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...219_185600.jpg

"both sides"
Yeah, look at that Alliance bias. We are forced from always just shrugging and forgiving genocides to now making excuses for them murderers. It's gone from disappointing to just hilarious. That other thread with Baine in Stormwind would have made me sigh in the past but this time I just cracked up.

I'm glad I switched to Warhammer. Where people aren't chickenshit pussies afraid of cracking greenskin skulls open. It was always a mistake to settle for this imitation instead of going for the original.

[TheImperios]

This is demeaning to the Horde. Must we "learn to walk a new path" again? This was the storyline of WC3.

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"both sides"
Yeah, look at that Alliance bias. We are forced from always just shrugging and forgiving genocides to now making excuses for them murderers. It's gone from disappointing to just hilarious. That other thread with Baine in Stormwind would have made me sigh in the past but this time I just cracked up.

I'm glad I switched to Warhammer. Where people aren't chickenshit pussies afraid of cracking greenskin skulls open. It was always a mistake to settle for this imitation instead of going for the original.

It is not Horde bias either, because the Horde had to go through this genocide and civil war shit to begin with.

To be honest, Warhammer is a lot more morally nuanced than Warcraft. There is no absolute good and even the evil factions are understandable and can be sympathetic.

[VladlTutushkin]

This is demeaning to the Horde. Must we "learn to walk a new path" again? This was the storyline of WC3.

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It is not Horde bias either, because the Horde had to go through this genocide and civil war shit to begin with.

To be honest, Warhammer is a lot more morally nuanced than Warcraft. There is no absolute good and even the evil factions are understandable and can be sympathetic.

Well, Chaos is not sympathetic at all since they are mostly selfish power-mongers out to plunge the world into orgy of death and destruction for their hungering gods.

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"both sides"
Yeah, look at that Alliance bias. We are forced from always just shrugging and forgiving genocides to now making excuses for them murderers. It's gone from disappointing to just hilarious. That other thread with Baine in Stormwind would have made me sigh in the past but this time I just cracked up.

I'm glad I switched to Warhammer. Where people aren't chickenshit pussies afraid of cracking greenskin skulls open. It was always a mistake to settle for this imitation instead of going for the original.

Yeah that was beyond all moronic. I mean, its one thing to forgive and forget, but to also share the guilt with those who genocided you? Its like saying that it is your fault you got robbed. And not “i ahould have protected myself better” but “i shouldnt have had so much money”.

[Super Dickmann]

It is not Horde bias either, because the Horde had to go through this genocide and civil war shit to begin with.

To be honest, Warhammer is a lot more morally nuanced than Warcraft. There is no absolute good and even the evil factions are understandable and can be sympathetic.

Chaos is 100% evil. The main thing with Warhammer is that it knows what it is - a war game, and everyone in it contributes to and engenders conflict in some way. Warcraft is torn time and again between being a godawful morality fable and a war game. BFA is the farthest it's gone in the former direction. A game who's core conceit is being able to play various races and cultures and see how they interact and conflict suffers when everyone gives an identical take of total forgiveness and world peace after a genocidal war that the majority of the enemy state backed until they were told it was not done to help them.

[Chonar]

Honestly, there should be some sort of reprimande, some way of mending the losses suffered in this Great War.

I have a great idea. We should make the Horde sign some of treaty... We can call it the "Treaty of Versatility" (because the horde races are so versatile). Then, we can put in a article, like uh... article 123 or something, in which it requires "the Horde [to] accept the responsibility of Sylvanas and her allies for causing all the loss and damage" during the fourth war (the allied races of the Horde will sign treaties containing similar articles). This article can be called the War Guilt clause for short. This treaty will then require the Horde to disarm, make ample territorial concessions, and pay reparations to alliance lands that form the Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdom territories.

Now, doing all this might put the Horde in incredible debt and economical turmoil in the long run, creating massive social upheaval and depression, which might allow for a single well-spoken and hotheaded Horde Leader to seize control of the desillusioned, hungry and angry citizens by reigniting their factional pride, but.. pffftttt, that's really unlikely. Not like that happened before anywhere ever.

[Super Dickmann]

Honestly, there should be some sort of reprimande for the losses suffered in this Great War.

I have a great idea. We should make the Horde sign some of treaty... We can call it the "Treaty of Versatility" (because the horde races are so versatile). Then, we can put in a article, like uh... article 123 or something, in which it requires "the Horde [to] accept the responsibility of Sylvanas and her allies for causing all the loss and damage" during the fourth war (the allied races of the Horde will sign treaties containing similar articles). This article can be called the War Guilt clause for short. This treaty will then require the Horde to disarm, make ample territorial concessions, and pay reparations to alliance lands that form the Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdom territories.

Now, doing all this might put the Horde in incredible debt and economical turmoil in the long run, creating massive social upheaval and depression, which might allow for a single well-spoken and hotheaded Horde Leader to seize control of the desillusioned, hungry and angry citizens by reigniting their factional pride, but.. pffftttt, that's really unlikely. Not like that happened before anywhere ever.

I have a better idea. What the Alliance should actually do is split the Horde in two and put it under occupation, with one half going to the humans and the other to the night elves until a later reunification once other things are accomplished first. But only after moving all the people who belong to its component races back into the core Horde territories of Durotar and the Barrens. The Alliance should then have its citizens tour the blighted remains of Darkshore and the husk of Teldrassil and remind them that they did this by supporting Sylvanas. The higher leadership should all be put on trial and sent to the Underhold or executed because the jurors, who would be Alliance officials, wouldn't accept 'Sylvanas told me to' as an excuse. Afterwards they should integrate the Horde into their own military bloc, while keeping some number of troops there indefinitely and prevent rearmament, as well as focusing on reeducating this and future generations to always remember that they made the Burning of Teldrassil possible.

[VladlTutushkin]

Honestly, there should be some sort of reprimande, some way of mending the losses suffered in this Great War.

I have a great idea. We should make the Horde sign some of treaty... We can call it the "Treaty of Versatility" (because the horde races are so versatile). Then, we can put in a article, like uh... article 123 or something, in which it requires "the Horde [to] accept the responsibility of Sylvanas and her allies for causing all the loss and damage" during the fourth war (the allied races of the Horde will sign treaties containing similar articles). This article can be called the War Guilt clause for short. This treaty will then require the Horde to disarm, make ample territorial concessions, and pay reparations to alliance lands that form the Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdom territories.

Now, doing all this might put the Horde in incredible debt and economical turmoil in the long run, creating massive social upheaval and depression, which might allow for a single well-spoken and hotheaded Horde Leader to seize control of the desillusioned, hungry and angry citizens by reigniting their factional pride, but.. pffftttt, that's really unlikely. Not like that happened before anywhere ever.

Well, leaving Horde with White Peace and not even ask for ANY concessions just invites them to do that again, maybe on a lesser scale but still. Of course doing to them what happened to Germany after WW1 is not possible or gonna end well hut not doing ANYTHING is even worse!

[Chonar]

I have a better idea. What the Alliance should actually do is split the Horde in two and put it under occupation, with one half going to the humans and the other to the night elves until a later reunification once other things are accomplished first. But only after moving all the people who belong to its component races back into the core Horde territories of Durotar and the Barrens. The Alliance should then have its citizens tour the blighted remains of Darkshore and the husk of Teldrassil and remind them that they did this by supporting Sylvanas. The higher leadership should all be put on trial and sent to the Underhold or executed because the jurors, who would be Alliance officials, wouldn't accept 'Sylvanas told me to' as an excuse. Afterwards they should integrate the Horde into their own military bloc, while keeping some number of troops there indefinitely and prevent rearmament, as well as focusing on reeducating this and future generations to always remember that they made the Burning of Teldrassil possible.

Hmmm. Or perhaps thats a bit too much. And the Nightelves definitely want something different than Anduin does.
What if we simply build a wall straight through Durotar and Orgrimmar, and divide it into an eastern and western section? Loyalists on the East Azshara side with the goblins, under the watchful eye of the Nightelf Union, and non-Loyalists on the West Barrens side kept in check by the Alliance Allies.

Of course, any horde member trying to cross the wall will have to be shot, but I think this is a small price to pay.

[eurojust]

Well, leaving Horde with White Peace and not even ask for ANY concessions just invites them to do that again, maybe on a lesser scale but still. Of course doing to them what happened to Germany after WW1 is not possible or gonna end well hut not doing ANYTHING is even worse!

The winners were very kind to Germany after WW1, especially compared to what they did to France in 1870. Stop falling for this german/american propaganda that the reason Germans went full nazi was because of France. The treaty was never enforced btw.

[Super Dickmann]

Of course, any horde member trying to cross the wall will have to be shot, but I think this is a small price to pay.

The Anti-Loyalist Protection (Wisp)Wall will be a later addition to the above arrangement, not altering its core points.

[Chonar]

The winners were very kind to Germany after WW1, especially compared to what they did to France in 1870. Stop falling for this german/american propaganda that the reason Germans went full nazi was because of France. The treaty was never enforced btw.

Literally the third sentence in this article. Go edit Wikipedia if you think it's incorrect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II

Also stop turning my hilarious World War jokes into something serious.

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The Anti-Loyalist Protection (Wisp)Wall will be a later addition to the above arrangement, not altering its core points.

Mister Stormrage, dispell those wisps.

[eurojust]

Literally the third sentence in this article. Go edit Wikipedia if you think it's incorrect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II

Also stop turning my hilarious World War jokes into something serious.

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Mister Stormrage, dispell those wisps.

It never states that those "strong currents of revanchism" were legitimate. It has more to do with the fact that there were still some heavy nationalism feelings. Hitler went mad because they lost the war, the treaty was just an excuse. Again they never paid the full reparations. If anything the winners after WW1 were too nice with the Germans, hence why they stopped being warmongers once they got completely destroyed after WW2.
In some way this is what's happening in WoW : The Horde always feel like they are treated badly by the Alliance, hence why they always go to war and try to genocide people.

[Hyral]

It is not Horde bias either, because the Horde had to go through this genocide and civil war shit to begin with.

It is. It is not a you bias but it is a horde bias. It has nothing to do with what you like or enjoy but what the devs want with the horde. Everything in this game and story is being twisted and torn apart to tell a storyline for the horde. They go on a rampage as usual and the people they murder forgive them to give them another chance. It may not be a storyline you enjoy but it is a storyline entirely centered around the horde and using the alliance as a prop to it.

A parent can be biased towards one child, by overindulging one to fit their own ideal and forcing their sibling to play along. Neither child may be happy but the parents actions are obviously biased towards one of them. The problem is horde players think when someone calls horde bias it means you are getting everything that makes you happy when it's not. You don't want the favoritism and we don't want to be forced to play along.

[Chonar]

It never states that those "strong currents of revanchism" were legitimate. It has more to do with the fact that there were still some heavy nationalism feelings. Hitler went mad because they lost the war, the treaty was just an excuse. Again they never paid the full reparations. If anything the winners after WW1 were too nice with the Germans, hence why they stopped being warmongers once they got completely destroyed after WW2.
In some way this is what's happening in WoW : The Horde always feel like they are treated badly by the Alliance, hence why they always go to war and try to genocide people.

You must be such fun at parties.