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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I think it's just affirming that unless the horde & alliance are replaced with new factions in 9.0, Tyrande & Talanji will be the leaders of the Alliance & Horde. Where the players can participate in the War if they choose, while most cities are at peace & neutral, like Dalaran
    The Unifaction has already formed story-wise, what's left is for the gameplay introduction. I don't think it'll cover much retro content though, simply because it'll be a lot of busiwork. Rather, our 120+ characters in Wrath of The Bolvar will be able to team up with anyone of any faction in new content, possibly up to and including guilds, but retro content will remain as it is. This would prevent problematic quests - like all of BFA, big parts of Mists, Cataclysm etc., but also raids - since ToC has a faction-specific fight and loot and SoO has events and dialogues that trigger based on faction. This is a whole lot of busiwork to fix for not much benefit, whereas doing it only for the most recent content is both simpler and more efficient. It could even be a voluntary toggle. There might be a more sizable merger planned, I wouldn't discount it, but this strikes me as the likeliest course.

    As for War Mode, personally I think that Talanji is doomed to apologize to the Alliance for her dad falling on their swords a few hundred times and Tyrande will learn about the glories of human potential or become a raid boss. They are the ones best suited to such a system, but I really doubt Blizzard want to permit this given how out of their way they made in trampling over established canon, personality and basic narrative sense to reach the Unifaction. Rather, Tremblade/Volrath and assorted meme characters are more likely to do it.

    @Powerogue

    You denied in absolute terms that Calia's appeal to the nu-undead had anything to do with her Lordaeronian nature or mindset. If you're going to spin, wait for the next topic, not something that can easily be verified by just going back two pages.

    Speaking of spin, back when this expansion started out we had one faction run by a cartoon villain and one run by disney prince, and only one had any variance to speak of. At the end of this, we have two factions with identical positions on effectively everything, with no distinguishable points of difference except aesthetic and not even that when it comes to half the Horde. Sylvanas was preferable then, as she is now, because she serves the purpose of the game - to enable intra and inter-faction conflict and to be proactive. Tyrande is the best vehicle for this, as she is both morally correct and well motivated, but Sylvanas, who is essentially a caricature, at least secures entertainment, which I can't say about the Teletubby peace circle that is the Unifaction leadership, the death of the majority of which transcends a mercy killing and would be the narrative equivalent of public service.

    The entire rest of the faction leader cast go counter to the very point of the game to instead serve some infantile moral message that no one actually believes in. In as much as anything is actively harmful its the intended message, because people who want to kill you just because they hate your hope/freedom and nothing else are fictional. The Nuremberg defense, disregard for your community on the basis of your momentary feelings and endless apologia for incompatible and hostile beliefs are dime a dozen in real life and it's these that the narrative pushes as being the peak of morality through its twee mouthpieces.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-10-29 at 12:07 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The only real "Horde bias" I've ever noted in WoW is the fact that the Horde seems to be the active force that moves much of the plot in the narrative, whereas the Alliance tends to be entirely reactive to whatever it is the Horde does - at least in terms of the faction conflict. This isn't necessarily a bad thing on its face, but I can see how some Alliance partisans might rankle at the notion that their faction never really seems proactive, biding its time until the Horde attacks unilaterally or what have you. Even on occasions where the Alliance is the first to throw down the proverbial gauntlet (such as with Varian in WotLK) it's in reaction to perceived Horde aggression. It would be nice to see the Alliance set the tone now and again - acting on its own, moving things forward within the story, and being overall more organic like its Horde counterpart.

    The coda of BfA has set up a number of factors that could lead to this very thing, as well; so it would be a great time to capitalize on that.
    Not really going to happen, unless they offer Anduin some fall from grace story, loses control over his own faction or dies. And even then the Horde pretty much lost everything that made them appealing over the years, at this point disbanding it to form a new faction in it's place would be a mercy. Especially since the spineless aliance bootlickers won there isn't anyone left, who would or could oppose the Aliance, on the Horde side, even if they did get the proactive position, in the story. And Baine in Stormwind only reinforces the feeling that the Horde is pretty much a vassal to the Aliance, without it being explicitely stated yet.

  3. #363
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    No, i just pointed out how having a “wrong” opinion became a stigma here.
    To be fair "wrong" opinions are usually borderline fanfictions that ignore most of written lore.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    What circular logic is this?

    They dont support the horde! Traitors!!!111. I support the warchief that doesn't care for the horde and used it as a tool! No that doesn't make me a traitor!!!!11

    You realize blizz can't actually delete one faction from the game right? They want to make money.
    they don't need to delete a faction, simply make a 3rd. One that is All undead (All Races raised in undeath) you could play any Race that has been risen to serve the Banshee Queen. Then you have the Horde and their never ending quest to save their boyfriend and the Alliance. 3 Factions but one that is clearly the back guys, the Undead that are Loyal to Sylvanas.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Personal distaste.
    And how does that loop back to your point about bad writing, particularly in regards to Baine?


    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    No, thinking beige is ugly is a pretty normal statement of opinion. Now if you said "beige is so horrid that it twists my guts into roiling coils of horror and forces me to paint the walls with my own vomit" I would say that is exceedingly hyperbolic. Saying Baine is a bad character who makes bad choices is a measured opinion, calling him "utterly deplorable" is hyperbolic. As with most things it's all a matter of scale.
    Who the fuck died and made you the king of personal, subjective opinions? Do you even understand that concept? For god's sake, in just this post on one hand you are trying to conjure who knows what from my distaste of Baine and on the other hand you try to pretend you have any authority to decide how far that dislike is allowed to go. How on earth does that even work?


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Thank God there's a button that makes it mostly go away.
    I wonder if you see the irony of what you said here. Because ignoring people for vile crimes like questioning your HORDE BIAS conspiracy theory or calling you out on peddling fanfiction only results in you surrounding yourself with like-minded people that will only coddle you when next you shout at people on the street about how Blizzad wants to exterminate all Alliance players. Which, you know, is as close as you can get to the demon of TEH CIRCLEJERK on this forum. Wait, why am I even asking.

  6. #366
    Herald of the Titans Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    they don't need to delete a faction, simply make a 3rd. One that is All undead (All Races raised in undeath) you could play any Race that has been risen to serve the Banshee Queen. Then you have the Horde and their never ending quest to save their boyfriend and the Alliance. 3 Factions but one that is clearly the back guys, the Undead that are Loyal to Sylvanas.
    you want a lot of things man. and all of them either intersect or run infinitely run parallel to their intended objective. this isnt world of yarncraft lol.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Horde bias is far less “tinfoil” then you try and show it as. While belittling anybody who dosent thread the “party line” and agrees that both factions are treated equally and all who disagree are idiots is circlejerk.
    Which is why the "best" examples of the HORDE BIAS amalgam of all that's unholy are Cataclysm zone reshuffle that fixed the Vanilla-WotLK zone imbalance that favored the Alliance and BfA that ended in the Horde turning into a joke ruled by Anduin's ass-lickers. Also, your last remark in this post would have more merit to it if you weren't complaining about TEH CIRCLEJERK yourself just a page earlier.

  8. #368
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Who the fuck died and made you the king of personal, subjective opinions? Do you even understand that concept? For god's sake, in just this post on one hand you are trying to conjure who knows what from my distaste of Baine and on the other hand you try to pretend you have any authority to decide how far that dislike is allowed to go. How on earth does that even work?
    How does having an opinion make one "the king of personal, subjective opinions?" You've offered up a perfect example of hyperbole, as well. I'm not deciding anything, I'm telling you what I consider hyperbolic - and you've basically illustrated the point perfectly.
    "The finest line of poetry ever uttered in the history of this whole damn country was said by Canada Bill Jones in 1853, in Baton Rouge, while he was being robbed blind in a crooked game of Faro. George Devol, who was, like Canada Bill, not a man who was averse to fleecing the odd sucker, drew Bill aside and asked him if he couldn't see that the game was crooked. And Canada Bill sighed, and shrugged his shoulders, and said, 'I know. But it's the only game in town.' And he went back to the game." -- Neil Gaiman, "American Gods"

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The only real "Horde bias" I've ever noted in WoW is the fact that the Horde seems to be the active force that moves much of the plot in the narrative, whereas the Alliance tends to be entirely reactive to whatever it is the Horde does - at least in terms of the faction conflict. This isn't necessarily a bad thing on its face, but I can see how some Alliance partisans might rankle at the notion that their faction never really seems proactive, biding its time until the Horde attacks unilaterally or what have you. Even on occasions where the Alliance is the first to throw down the proverbial gauntlet (such as with Varian in WotLK) it's in reaction to perceived Horde aggression. It would be nice to see the Alliance set the tone now and again - acting on its own, moving things forward within the story, and being overall more organic like its Horde counterpart.

    The coda of BfA has set up a number of factors that could lead to this very thing, as well; so it would be a great time to capitalize on that.
    It's hardly real if it's wrong. Alliance has been the active party plenty of times. The previous faction war was started by the Alliance. Them invading the Barrens before Garrosh farted in Ashenvale's direction was also active. So were their archaeological incursions into Horde territory in Vanilla. Stormheim. Silithus. When you tally up fights with known instigator, the Alliance wins. The only two reasons why this false horseshit of Alliance being an innocent little flower that only ever waits around to be bullied by the Horde again perseveres is:

    1. Because the Alliance players don't know what they want, as such they handwave all cases of Alliance being the aggressor away because they can't actually handle the Alliance not being the perfect paragon of perfection, only to then once more whine about how boring and reactive they are 10 seconds later.

    2. Because Blizzard wants to write the Alliance as the aforementioned perfect paragon of perfection, but since it's Blizzard and all of their writers are lazy and careless, they don't care that they wrote plenty of things contradicting that vision. Because instead of, I don't know, not writing them in the first place, they can (and do) always just merrily ignore them and never acknowledge them in the story. Just like they do the same with Anduin, where all his fuckups that they chose to write themselves are never acknowledged by anyone around him and everyone around him instead continues to fawn over him (with the few exceptions being hastily written off as wrong, if not outright evil).
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2019-10-29 at 03:02 PM.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    It's hardly real if it's wrong. Alliance has been the active party plenty of times. The previous faction war was started by the Alliance. Them invading the Barrens before Garrosh farted in Ashenvale's direction was also active. So were their archaeological incursions into Horde territory in Vanilla. Stormheim. Silithus. When you tally up fights with known instigator, the Alliance wins. The only two reasons why this false horseshit of Alliance being an innocent little flower that only ever waits around to be bullied by the Horde again perseveres is:

    1. Because the Alliance players don't know what they want, as such they handwave all cases of Alliance being the aggressor away because they can't actually handle the Alliance not being the perfect paragon of perfection, only to then once more whine about how boring and reactive they are 10 seconds later.

    2. Because Blizzard wants to write the Alliance as the aforementioned perfect paragon of perfection, but since it's Blizzard and all of their writers are lazy and careless, they don't care that they wrote plenty of things contradicting that vision. Because instead of, I don't know, not writing them in the first place, they can (and do) always just merrily ignore them and never acknowledge them in the story. Just like they do the same with Anduin, where all his fuckups that they chose to write themselves are never acknowledged by anyone around him and everyone around him instead continues to fawn over him (with the few exceptions being hastily written off as wrong, if not outright evil).
    You clearly dont even understand what issue is but rabidly attack anybody who DARES (horror!) to speak against your vision of the game.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupinemancer View Post
    I think it would be interesing to see some "race rocation" for the factions. I doubt it'd ever happen, but It would be cool.
    It's what I'm hoping for aswell. Granted that I'd mostly want Undead, Blood Elves and Nightborne yeeted from the Horde, since they don't fit the faction from either a cultural or narrative perspective. I really do think a faction shake-up is the best thing that could come out of this war.

  12. #372
    We should have had an emissary in Stormwind since the faction war ended in MoP.

    Baine should've been the new warchief, but he's the best pick as ambassador so I'm happy.

    Does the Alliance have an ambassador to the Horde? Who is it? Muradin?

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  13. #373
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    We should have had an emissary in Stormwind since the faction war ended in MoP.

    Baine should've been the new warchief, but he's the best pick as ambassador so I'm happy.

    Does the Alliance have an ambassador to the Horde? Who is it? Muradin?
    Its freshly captured tyrande wearing strap jacket. Anduin thinks this duty will be a good therapy for her.

  14. #374
    Maybe he should stay there as an advisor to Anduin.
    Last edited by Nerovar; 2019-10-29 at 07:22 PM.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Its freshly captured tyrande wearing strap jacket. Anduin thinks this duty will be a good therapy for her.
    Anduin: Announcing the new ambassador to the Horde....TYRANDE WHISPERWIND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

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