Bring "normal gear" back?

[Arkthugal]

Old setup > current set up, but I'd rather they just try something completely new that's not bullshit hamster wheel life draining crap.

Hi this describes the entire MMO genre, it's not going away.

[schwarzkopf]

Corrupted gear will most likely affect how competitive you are.

You do realise it is an ENTIRELY optional.

BiS pieces of Azerite gear can be really annoying to obtain

Well - BiS Tier pieces were impossible to attain for my class/spec, non Tier was BiS.

This whole BiS stupidity needs to vanish in a puff of smoke.

[Nynax]

You do realise it is an ENTIRELY optional.

I believe his point is that, if you want to be competitive, it won't be optional at all.

The way the system works now, corrupted gear + upgraded legendary cloak (to reverse bad corruption effects) will 100% be more powerful than someone who cleanses all of their gear.

[Nerovar]

imagine getting upset over something as silly as RNG titanforge procs.

I never claimed to be against or in favour of titanforging. I merely expressed that I find it laughable for people to claim that the game would be boring without things like titanforging when they didn't really exist for the most of the game's lifespan.

But nice projection there, buddy.

[schwarzkopf]

I believe his point is that, if you want to be competitive, it won't be optional at all.

That would be factually incorrect. If you want to be competitive you will be balancing two factors, and choosing which gear to cleanse or not cleanse and gradually building up resistance.

The important thing though - is that it is FAR superior to the existing Titanforging system where you can just get RNG luck to deliver you a Mythic item doing your Normal raid.

It removes the RNG crap out of the equation and leaves behind a cost/benefit per item.

Pretty damn nice system.

[Jujudrood]

MoP system - gear can WF to 6ilvl higher than base. Currency that you earn by doing raids, m+ chest and emissaries can upgrade it twice (5ilvl each time).

I would love for them to bring back MoP gearing, with just minor changes.
Keep WF/TF, but make those steps in gear upgrading.
A standard item is 0/2, with WF being 1/2, and TF being 2/2.
WF is +5 ilvl over standard, TF is +10 over standard.
Bring back valor, or make a new currency that functions the same, where you can then manually upgrade the item to each step.

That way, you get your exciting moments of RNG when WF/TF drop naturally while also having a solid, calculated goal towards which you can work when you get the standard drop.
Best of both worlds and would be much more interesting than simply pulling the slot machine lever and hoping (today's world).

[Hanon]

Was an absolute Alotholic and WoW addict then artefact power came and there goes the fun and it was only grind happy with vanilla atm but hope for the real wow to come back.

[PenguinChan]

Old assured gear + Upgrading ilvls + Rerolling secondaries = Perfect.

We should be able to grind for a set of gear that is assured and laid out, then upgrade it to our liking, and change the stats on it to our playstyle. The fact Blizzard thinks pure RNG fiesta drops are the way to go shows they have no interest in player enjoyability as much as keeping them playing. There are other ways to keep a player invested, and pure diablo RNG isn't one of them.

...Because, I'm sorry, Diablo loot only works when you use the Diablo formula of elites and bosses and such that are easy to get to and quite frequent.

Also, somewhat controversial: I think Legion Legendaries were great. I want more items like that, but not the stupid method of obtaining them by chance only.

[Nynax]

how about this. stop pretending you can dps a boss like a ROBOT. I hate sims and I hate people who think it relates to real encounters. When's the last time we had a true, stand still and PATCHWORK a fight? How do I know it's bullshit, because Healers can't even SIM on the same websites you people use in the first place.

There's a lot SIMs don't account for, and that's the actual fucking human being playing it. If only you click FIGHT like you can SIM when you're in game.

Best way to get away from this frame of mind, stop going to church. You don't have to go, and you don't have to take followers or even have members in your own church. That's what makes this world so great, if people allow it, is that we can all be civil while believing one thing or another. Playing and enjoying our lives as we see fit. Trying to relive the same experience millions have already done, is boring. Make it your own, make it unique. That's what I've done and I am doing just fine.

Anyone simming intelligently understands that you never actually perform at the same level as your sim... however it does provide some sort of baseline. And you need that to make smart gear choices, it's just information. Sims reveal things that aren't necessarily intuitive, like "after you reach x% haste, crit is more valuable."

Fact is, if you really want to be a high performer on difficult content, you need some way to tell the difference between good or bad stats. Otherwise everything is just a guess "I like my Mastery skill, that seems important...so I'll stack that!" Never realizing that your specs mastery is tuned bad, and crit will help you way more. Sims tell you that. Unless of course you want to keep both items and spend extra time "testing" them yourself.

And then you have sockets, all these complicated Azerite abilities, special trinkets... the disparity from iLvL is so far off for some items, that you might not even realize you are downgrading yourself by upgrading to a different items higher ilvl. Rings are especially bad atm.

- - - Updated - - -

That would be factually incorrect. If you want to be competitive you will be balancing two factors, and choosing which gear to cleanse or not cleanse and gradually building up resistance.

That's...kinda exactly my point? You are still using the corrupted gear. "Entirely optional" would mean you could cleanse every corrupted item and still be just as good as everyone else.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the RNG is doubled? There's RNG in what benefit you get on a gear piece, then more RNG on how strong the corruption is. So you could get the same piece, but have different effects or, even on the same piece, the same effect but at different intensities. The problem lies in how they tune those strengths, it's an RNG artificial iLvl without actually increasing the iLvl.

And then your ability to utilize those added bonus are dependant on the new legendary cloak. So instead of azerite power and armor, instead or essences and traits, you've got a NEW thing to grind out for different bonuses. We've got tripled stacked gearing systems at this point.

[Azerate]

I was fine with the system until now (wf/tf). It was basically just "normal" gear but sometimes you get a slightly higher ilvl. I never understood what was so wrong with that.

[schwarzkopf]

That's...kinda exactly my point? You are still using the corrupted gear. "Entirely optional" would mean you could cleanse every corrupted item and still be just as good as everyone else.

No - entirely optional means you can play the game without something.

If Corrupted gear dropped and you couldn't remove the corruption - then it wouldn't be optional.

You can remove it - which means you have the OPTION of removing it... that is - it is optional.

- - - Updated - - -

I was fine with the system until now (wf/tf). It was basically just "normal" gear but sometimes you get a slightly higher ilvl. I never understood what was so wrong with that.

I think it somewhat unfair to reward shear luck so much over effort ... I've never been a fan of luck based rewards.

I'm iLvl 445 on my mage and I've not even got Ashvane down on heroic, I've not done anything more than M+ 10 or so.

I have no issue in allowing casual players to WORK towards iLvl 445 gear - but just RNGing my way to 445 seems ludicrous.

[Marrilaife]

Imagine if your parse depended on how well you played instead of how lucky you were in the casinocraft of gear... nah can't have that. We had 1 expansion of semi-standarized gear in pvp only and people already cried rivers they can't pwn noobs in their superior gear.

[Nynax]

No - entirely optional means you can play the game without something.

If Corrupted gear dropped and you couldn't remove the corruption - then it wouldn't be optional.

You can remove it - which means you have the OPTION of removing it... that is - it is optional.

Well yeah....but this conversation started with the keyword "competitive."
What is and isn't technically possible was never really the point...

[schwarzkopf]

Well yeah....but this conversation started with the keyword "competitive."

Yep - and being competitive isn't about everyone wearing the same gear, being competitive is about working with what you've got to do your best. If you are running a marathon, not all competitors are the same height, weight, age etc...

Corrupted gear gives you a far better approach to doing that than a simple RNG at the front on gear.

Now - when you get the corrupted gear, you can use as is, remove the corruption, store it until when you have enough resistance on your cloak - and make real choices on the cost/benefit of each item.

[Wakozi123]

We honestly just have to wait and see how they are going to implement the Corrupted Gear on the lives servers. If for example a Mythic Raid item has a higher base Corruption than a Normal Raid item then it is going to be a good system, as you get better gear for doing more challenging content. But let us be honest... That won't be the case anyways. Titanforging is gone, thank god. But I can already see someone getting a max Corruption Item in LFR.

As for the whole competetive discussion. Obviously, it will be relevant. Let us just look at it from the perspective of a Destruction Warlock: "for example: an item might give 4% Critical Strike damage and 10 Corruption, or 6% Critical Strike damage and 15 Corruption". This will directly influence how much damage you do with your Chaos Bolt. As such, if you care about Warcraftlogs, you are forced to get a high Corruption in order to get those 99/100% logs.

If you don't care about Warcraftlogs or Mythic Raids and all you do is World Quests and maybe Heroic Raids, then yes... You won't need Corrupted Gear. But those are two entirely different approaches to the game and both are valid. No reason to get angry if someone plays the game differently than you do.

[Kaibhan]

I think corrupted gear would be great, if it was only quality of life items. RNG for power never feels good. Less of levels of gear would be nice too.

[Casperite]

Imagine getting your enjoyment from RNG procs instead of actual gameplay.

You mean how the game has been since vanilla (unless raid boss dropped everything for everyone guaranteed every time back then)? Or was it not cool to hate RNG back then like it is now?

Or did players not enjoying finally getting that drop they've been trying for for weeks on end?

[Selastan]

I just want one version of every item. No titan forging, no corruption, not Raid Finder version, regular version, heroic version...I want my Role Playing game back, not this number simulator.

[KYZ123]

I think it somewhat unfair to reward shear luck so much over effort ... I've never been a fan of luck based rewards.

I'm iLvl 445 on my mage and I've not even got Ashvane down on heroic, I've not done anything more than M+ 10 or so.

I have no issue in allowing casual players to WORK towards iLvl 445 gear - but just RNGing my way to 445 seems ludicrous.

M+ 10 gives you 440 loot from the weekly chest without any extra warforging. If you've done that for most of this tier then getting 445 average item level doesn't seem too surprising. I barely do M+, but I've cleared all of heroic, and I'm 438 (436 equipped), so it varies.

Since when did heroic raiding with +10s on the side become 'casual'? Casual relative to players in the MMO-C forums, maybe, but not to the entire playerbase.

[Musta]

I love how "yes" is destroying "no"