View Poll Results: Bring back a standard gear system + tier sets?

Voters
495. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    408 82.42%
  • No

    87 17.58%
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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Easy, valor points to upgrade your gear and bring back gem sockets.
    There are some people there, who still get the point thanks mate

    Not to mention, that returning to schools of magic, like shadow or frost damage would introduce a lot of variety, when it comes to itemization. So instead of something like Corruption which is obviously too complex for majority of players and it's absolutely impossible to get balanced well, they could simply bring back these schools of magic.

    Now imagine how many combos in GEMS they could do. Like gems for Intellect and Fire damage in one. And that items would have couple of slots on higher levels, like the raiding one. How much progression it provides... and it would make Jewelcrafting a worthy profession again.

    Valor Points on the other hand allow you to collect a reward for your time commitment, and it also removes by a lot the RNG from the game, as now you can upgrade the item you really wish to have been Titanforged.

    But I guess there are people with some crazy, rational features out there, but they are dimmed by those who preach that Titanforging is both healthy and engaging. Jesus Christ.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well - BiS Tier pieces were impossible to attain for my class/spec, non Tier was BiS.
    I just really liked tier sets. They were pretty simple to understand and they added a little bit of spice to your spec every tier. Plus it automatically changed based on spec, so playing multiple specs were no big deal.

  3. #243
    I defo miss tier sets

  4. #244
    Stood in the Fire Phantombeard's Avatar
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    I do wish epic gear felt epic again. That really is a feeling I miss.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Arakakao View Post
    TBH, WoW has always been about RNG.
    Still seems silly to claim that the game would somehow be boring without titanforging etc., don't you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casperite View Post
    You mean how the game has been since vanilla (unless raid boss dropped everything for everyone guaranteed every time back then)? Or was it not cool to hate RNG back then like it is now?

    Or did players not enjoying finally getting that drop they've been trying for for weeks on end?
    The point I was making was not about vanilla having less RNG or RNG being bad for the game. I was specifically referring to the fact that the person I quoted said that the game would be boring without titanforging etc. which seems like a really strange thing to say considering that most people here have probably spent a majority of their playtime without stuff like TF.
    Last edited by Nerovar; 2019-10-25 at 05:01 PM.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Musta View Post
    I love how "yes" is destroying "no"
    Does that surprise you? People who frequent forums are more likely to be people who also research their character, min max, and put effort into the game, and more likely to perceive gear as either reward proportional to their efforts, or a tool to prove they're an accomplished player (so they don't wanna feel lack of luck in gear is holding them back in achieving top parse, r.io score, pvp rating etc.)

    People who have the attitude of "I pay 15$ a month so I deserve the best" and are uninterested in putting effort or honing their skill will rarely show up on the forums, except for situations when they're outraged about something - like content being not able to be bruteforced (early Cata dungeons, early mage tower in Legion etc.)

    That doesn't mean companies care to listen to the first group, because it's the second group that gives birth to whales, boost buyers, lootbox gamblers, gold buyers, cash shop customers, generally the lucrative clientele that will rather put money than time / effort into a game. And money rules the business. The times when games were about promoting working ethic and good sportsmanship are gone, casinos just are more profitable.

    I'm probably gonna hear from apologists that rng on top of rng is not lootboxes or p2w so it's all fine, but both appeal to the same demographics / personality profiles. People who don't want rewards to be earned, and effort correlate closely with the result, they just want the idea of "everyone can win a prize" (and especially them - do you think lottery ticket buyers ever think they have 0 chance of winning no matter what the maths says?), so they want their "15$ a month" to be that lottery ticket.

  7. #247
    I really want normal gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xevarc View Post
    I defo miss tier sets
    Tier sets and upgrade gear with valor and stuff, its my type of rewarding gear.

  8. #248
    I just want reforging and item sets back

  9. #249
    I do miss the simpler days when you got gear and it had fixed stats so you always knew what you were getting. I want the justice/valor point system to come back and to get rid of all this RNG garbage that seems to be literally everywhere in this game. It's in the chances of getting drops, it's in the chances of getting certain stats on gear, and it's even in some of the abilities on some classes like Rogues with their Roll of the Bones ability. To me RNG is a half-ass and lazy approach to game design. Instead of coming up with a creative system they just randomize everything and make people gamble their way through the game.

    Anyway before I start rambling, I do want the normal, simpler gearing system to come back but under the JP/VP system like back in WotLK. Basically as long as the RNG bullshit is gone I'd be fine with it. I'm just so sick of everything in WoW being randomly generated because they're too lazy to come up with a more creative design.
    Last edited by Grubenwolf; 2019-10-25 at 06:54 PM.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Arakakao View Post
    TBH, WoW has always been about RNG.
    Yes, the only RNG we had to worry about was if x gear is going to drop or not.

    Blizzard took it too far with gem sockets, warforge/titanforging, and the minor stats.

    Minor stats I don’t mind, they don’t really have an impact on your character so I wouldn’t care.

    At least in vanilla you could invest your time knowing you’re going to get X gear.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Does that surprise you? People who frequent forums are more likely to be people who also research their character, min max, and put effort into the game, and more likely to perceive gear as either reward proportional to their efforts, or a tool to prove they're an accomplished player (so they don't wanna feel lack of luck in gear is holding them back in achieving top parse, r.io score, pvp rating etc.)

    People who have the attitude of "I pay 15$ a month so I deserve the best" and are uninterested in putting effort or honing their skill will rarely show up on the forums, except for situations when they're outraged about something - like content being not able to be bruteforced (early Cata dungeons, early mage tower in Legion etc.)

    That doesn't mean companies care to listen to the first group, because it's the second group that gives birth to whales, boost buyers, lootbox gamblers, gold buyers, cash shop customers, generally the lucrative clientele that will rather put money than time / effort into a game. And money rules the business. The times when games were about promoting working ethic and good sportsmanship are gone, casinos just are more profitable.

    I'm probably gonna hear from apologists that rng on top of rng is not lootboxes or p2w so it's all fine, but both appeal to the same demographics / personality profiles. People who don't want rewards to be earned, and effort correlate closely with the result, they just want the idea of "everyone can win a prize" (and especially them - do you think lottery ticket buyers ever think they have 0 chance of winning no matter what the maths says?), so they want their "15$ a month" to be that lottery ticket.
    No it doesnt surprise me, what really surprises me is "go play classic if you want boring gear" and i am like... "bruh"

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by EskwyreX View Post
    Sure, but that wasn't the original point. I do agree that gameplay has absolutely suffered and gone downhill since MoP.
    It’s due to LFR and its gradual corrupting influence.

    They only started adding in grinds and rng to satisfy the LFR audience because if you only play LFR you automatically win quickly. Need something that keeps them playing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Could just try making an addictivlely fun game again instead of all this rng timegating bs
    Some people already think it is an addictively fun game. You need to realize you are not the only one playing it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    But at least they were something beyond just "your attack gain stat is the only stat that matters."

    Which is what we have right now besides the RNG elements.
    It doesn't matter if they are something when they are garbage. There is absolutely zero redeeeming qualities to them and they are better off gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Ok. So I'm not allowed to state my opinion as a fact. But what about when you say:



    That sounds like an opinion as the definition "fun" can never be a fact. But wait a minute... you state it as a fact... how can that be when it's strictly forbidden for me to do that?
    Here is the difference. I never called for Blizzard to remove them, nor did I ever call that system broken. So, all I am saying is I didn't think they were fun.

  14. #254
    God yes.

    I always played these games more for the content I can SEE than for the numbers. I enjoy killing bosses for the first time. Especially bosses from established lore. Nothing brings me more joy than getting to kill a returning character from Warcraft I, II or III. Furthermore I enjoy cosmetics. Yes, I collect mounts, pets, transmogs. Again, things I can see.

    Gear has always just been a means to an end for me. It doesn't give me joy to watch my ilvl go up just for the sake of watching my ilvl go up. I don't care if I got new pants that make my DPS 3% better. I care about killing the bosses, and the COOL rewards I earn for it (like mounts and such)... gear is just HOW I GET TO that kill...

    All that said, it's way too over-complicated now, and that complication does friggin' nothing for me. It just slows me down and annoys me when I have to look up which bloody azerite traits I'm supposed to be picking. I want simple, clear cut upgrades that are easy to understand, so I can stop looking at charts and numbers, and just put on my best purple pants to go kill a friggin' dragon!

    I didn't mind artifact weapons as much, because cosmetic upgrades were intrinsically tied into upgrading those, and furthermore they weren't very hard to understand. You just picked points until the little chart was maxed out (which didn't take terribly long if you were maining the toon), and then once the chart maxed they simply grew more powerful from there. I HATE azerite traits though. Entirely too many variables. Too much crap I have to look up outside the game. And furthermore, no cosmetic benefits I CAN ACTUALLY SEE whatsoever (unlike the weapons)
    Last edited by TragedyAnn; 2019-10-25 at 09:00 PM.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Some people already think it is an addictively fun game. You need to realize you are not the only one playing it.
    While true, you can't deny that a much more significant portion of the player base think it's not fun. Before Classic, subscriptions were allegedly down to about 4 millions, with 75% of those being from Asian markets. So even though the game is still financially healthy, its American/European market has shrunk significantly over the past decade. It's no secret the game has incorporated a lot of mobile games elements (which are much more popular in Asia than US/EU) and is being evaluated with mobile game metrics (daily/monthly active users, revenue per players, etc.). These metrics are great on paper, but when you aggressively chase them, you burn out your more casual players rather quickly. When enough casual players leave, the game dies and the cash cows suddenly lose interest.

    Right now, Blizzard is probably one bad expansion away from losing its US/EU casual base. I don't want that, because that would mean an even bigger shift towards Asian markets and I'm absolutely uninterested by those games.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Butterland View Post
    While true, you can't deny that a much more significant portion of the player base think it's not fun. Before Classic, subscriptions were allegedly down to about 4 millions, with 75% of those being from Asian markets. So even though the game is still financially healthy, its American/European market has shrunk significantly over the past decade. It's no secret the game has incorporated a lot of mobile games elements (which are much more popular in Asia than US/EU) and is being evaluated with mobile game metrics (daily/monthly active users, revenue per players, etc.). These metrics are great on paper, but when you aggressively chase them, you burn out your more casual players rather quickly. When enough casual players leave, the game dies and the cash cows suddenly lose interest.

    Right now, Blizzard is probably one bad expansion away from losing its US/EU casual base. I don't want that, because that would mean an even bigger shift towards Asian markets and I'm absolutely uninterested by those games.
    ZYou cannot confirm or deny anything. We have no idea how many subscribers there are and we have no idea who holds what opinion. THe game is 15 years old. YOu are going to lose a lot of subscribers through burnlout regardless of whether one fins it fun or not. People quit for many different reasons and a lot of them have nothing to do with the game being boring. So, you cannot declare anything regarding fun on the player base as a whole.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Here is the difference. I never called for Blizzard to remove them, nor did I ever call that system broken. So, all I am saying is I didn't think they were fun.
    No, no, no mate. You said that I wasn't allowed to state an opinion as a fact and you did the same thing right after. You cannot make up rules for me that you don't follow yourself.

    You didn't say: "I don't think they were fun."

    First you said: "Players need to stop treating their opinions like they are indisputable facts."

    and a few posts after you said: "Having to cap certain stats was never fun, especially hit and expertise." (you say that like a fact)

    You're a hypocrite.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-10-26 at 08:05 AM.

  18. #258
    They need you hooked to their game, so endless grinding is required. How else are they gonna do that ? I mean apparently tier sets with bonuses are too much work And somehow every expansion the game has to be a different game or "nothing new" crew comes in and whines about everything.

    On a more serious note, if you don't let a game die, you kinda lose the right to whine about it. At least after 10 years. Right ?
    This cat scratches free.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I'd prefer that they move away from gear being the motivating factor to do content to be honest. Make it so that LFR gear is the same as Mythic. Mythic let's you get prestigious titles, mounts, transmog sets, that sort of thing.
    Yeah why not just have a NPC stand in Orgrimmar/Stormwind where you can get all gear in the game for the price of 1 copper too while you're at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    No, no, no mate. You said that I wasn't allowed to state an opinion as a fact and you did the same thing right after. You cannot make up rules for me that you don't follow yourself.

    You didn't say: "I don't think they were fun."

    First you said: "Players need to stop treating their opinions like they are indisputable facts."

    and a few posts after you said: "Having to cap certain stats was never fun, especially hit and expertise." (you say that like a fact)

    You're a hypocrite.
    Its rrayy, it doesnt matter if you bring facts or logical arguments, dont waste your time.


  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Catscratch View Post
    On a more serious note, if you don't let a game die, you kinda lose the right to whine about it. At least after 10 years. Right ?
    What do you mean?

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