Poll: Bring back a standard gear system + tier sets?

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  1. #261
    Pandaren Monk Pakheth's Avatar
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    I've been wanting this ever since they introduced random stats on gear in WoD.

    The chance of a small upgrade in MoP with was fine. It was rare and a nice surprise. What we have now is just insane and ruins every good feeling over getting a new piece of gear. Gear has never felt this pointless. It's just numbers. And I can't tell you the name of a single item since WoD since it's all random stats and no item really leaves a mark due to it's randomness and therefore are not memorable enough to stand out.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by swatsonqt View Post
    what's your definition of hardest content?

    Is it hard to spend multiple hours a week braindead wiping from boss to boss until the last person finally understood what to do?
    Is it hard to do the worlds highest key?

    i think it is good that not anybody can obtain everything. But if mythic raiding is the only source...that's a big nono
    Right now the hardest PVE content in the game is Mythic Aszhara and extremely high m+ keys. The weekly chest from completing a simple +10 key should not give the same level of reward as killing Mythic Aszhara. In my opinion.

  3. #263
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    I mean really i think they should only put gear in mythic raids, no gear dropping from any other source. I mean if people dont need it... (Sad thing is i am sure some people here would like that. Thats why we dont have armchair developers).

    Though i actually agree, they rely to heavily on rng but you need a mix of rng and control to allow an optimal system. I would also like to see strides made on solo content to be the equivalent of mythic (can be done, see mage tower). Remember, you cant use "But raids require cooperation!" When it is the raid leader calling those shots most of the time, not the lowly peasants. If anything, they should get the top gear, not the rest of the raid who mostly just stays to themselves.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    If you want some rewards its only appropriate you do the content required to get these rewards.
    Its good to have something to strife for and not getting everything handed to you.
    Yeah but why has it to be by mythic raiding only?
    Is Doing m+ at 15 or above not good enough for high rewards?
    Is playing arena rbg at (idk what rating would be appripriate..1700? 2000 ?) not hard enough content for high rewards?

    Why on earth must it be mythic raiding that in comparison "nobody does".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Right now the hardest PVE content in the game is Mythic Aszhara and extremely high m+ keys. The weekly chest from completing a simple +10 key should not give the same level of reward as killing Mythic Aszhara. In my opinion.
    signed.

    But why cant it be + 15 + 20 or whatever where you still can get the good stuff?

    As corrupted gear stands most people would be stuck in (speaking in 8.2 ilvl range) 430 gear.
    When there are player out there with 445 430 is just bad.
    If you're bad you're not invited.

    So even if you want to become better at anything else you have to take part in mythic raids.

    I can't be the only one who thinks that this system is doomed to fail.
    Mythic raiding is a dying beast which decreases in player engagement year by year... doesn't make sense to support a mode thats (in comparison) done by nobody

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by swatsonqt View Post
    Yeah but why has it to be by mythic raiding only?
    Is Doing m+ at 15 or above not good enough for high rewards?
    Is playing arena rbg at (idk what rating would be appripriate..1700? 2000 ?) not hard enough content for high rewards?

    Why on earth must it be mythic raiding that in comparison "nobody does".

    - - - Updated - - -



    signed.

    But why cant it be + 15 + 20 or whatever where you still can get the good stuff?

    As corrupted gear stands most people would be stuck in (speaking in 8.2 ilvl range) 430 gear.
    When there are player out there with 445 430 is just bad.
    If you're bad you're not invited.

    So even if you want to become better at anything else you have to take part in mythic raids.

    I can't be the only one who thinks that this system is doomed to fail.
    Mythic raiding is a dying beast which decreases in player engagement year by year... doesn't make sense to support a mode thats (in comparison) done by nobody
    It could definitely also be m+ content. I’m not at all suggesting that gear should be exclusive to raiding. However I just think that +10 is way to low/easy.

    At the same time I also don’t think the 3 first bosses in Mythic EP should give the same level of reward as the 3 last bosses because they are waaaay easier. The difficulty of these bosses cannot even be compared.

  6. #266
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    I prefer having WF/TF because it is a nice touch when raid is cleared and you are farming with a guild waiting for next content drop. Also occasional uber item dropping is a nice touch.

    I do want sets back, but mostly because of more unique class touch they give. I do, after all, want to have Warlock sets and not generic theme of the month X sets.

    I do like Azerite items, it's cool to have items that are a bit more than just stats sticks/patches.

    Benthic, IMO, is a so-so idea, it's not terrible, but I don't like all these shenanigans where it's better than mythic raid items. I got 455 boots off Mythic Azshara and I can't use these because Benthic Boots are simply better, it's just wrong.

  7. #267
    Brewmaster Alkizon's Avatar
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    Post

    Funny. There was relatively right direction of key idea somewhere in the middle of topic, but it died out.

    Let me tell you, in short, one old story that I have repeatedly repeated and emphasized:
    - equipment is not your class, only bearer of characteristics, specializations (it's more correct to say “talents' build” because "spec" is dead concept) mostly aren't take away or add class mechanics, but only make those or other more preferred to use. The end of story.


    What follows from this? Equipment is carrier of characteristics (about which topic begun to talk, but stoped), characteristics determine your role, and I'm not talking about these wretched, barely tortured three roles and one buried, but about those that you yourself will choose based on set of characteristics and talents, which means that they can't beinteresting” in principle, can't contain any “key class mechanics” = changing class mechanics (don’t even stutter, everything will turn into dolceous AA and its derivatives, also here thoughts about tier gear).
    This part of system will never be normal until game has acquired complete, universal system of characteristics, well-thought and, like all ingenious, extremely simple(+/+). All that they are giving you is not universal, it’s temporary from prospect of taking it from you and changing it equivalently and in a circle, just like “class” affixes in any equipment... type. I don’t even want to delve into it, but you know yourself how much all those systems are trying to overplay, invade, enslave class fantasy from outside, starting with PvP talents and ending with "so interesting" characteristics.
    ----------------------------------------
    For example, completely simple hierarchy of equipment within "same ilvl" from PvE content may look something like this:
    - assume that colorless stone is lowest quality and rainbow (most expensive/rare/one-per-item/set-gear) one considered suitable for any slot
    - “can” = could have space for (fully/partially/none, depending on what devs decide for this particular item)
    - most customization is expandable and replaceable through professions, "reputations", etc if there is possibility and necessity
    1) whites - have only “defense”/“attack” line as a characteristic, can have 1 simple enchantment;
    2) greens - mainly obtained by quests/simple drop and additionally have up to 2 lines of basic stats as characteristics, can have up to 2 holes for colorless stones and contain up to 2 simple enchantments;
    3) blues - from dungeons/quests' chains/rare drop, in additional to previous also have up to 2 lines of secondary characteristics, can have place for 1 ordinary and 1 special enchantment, and up to 2 holes for colored stones with bonus of 1 colorless if colors are being observed;
    4) purples - from dungeons/raids, in additional to previous also have additional line of “informal” secondary characteristics (rate of self-healing, absorbability, indestructibility, additional, but miserable and not-class'-specific D/HOT/control, etc.), can have 2 places for special enchantments and up to 3 places for colored stones with the same bonus as blue ones;
    5) Here could be also kind of gold stuff... but I'm not sure.
    6) tiers will have bonuses in form of secondary characteristics - green, stats & secondary characteristics - blue, stats & secondary characteristics & very short temporary bonuses for the group - purple, which in case of their raid origin will represent some possible special parameters("team spirit") for particular raid defenses/attack (acting on certain type of monsters or giving certain type of defense, which will somewhat simplify subsequent passage of this content, with every part of tier also adding just ~1% of (e.g. sum buff for whole raid (= people)), or... whatever; also some words about its art style).

    - what about upgrading? well, not sure about need of that, but all right, let it be mostly kind of MoP-like with being controlled by player 2/4 ilvl of 2 gradual steps
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    upgrading “items” can be obtained in adequate volume precisely from "that" part of content+progress that these upgrades allow/require (just as they did back with arena vs BG, raids vs dungeon with specific currency, firsts had more opportunities and potential, while second were limited in volume of receipt by ilvl and gain - this is very standard catch-up mechanics (if you remember - ceiling increased in cases when you missed your time + each season reset + more flexible lead times), and main thing - “healthy”, required your active participation, in contrast to "next patch scalable" items/content; it doesn't matter in this case if this currency is spent on upgrade or on purchase of alternative equivalent equip). Also don't forget about exchange PvP/PvE currency between each other.
    Kralljin
    (meanwhile in TBC, Arena points merely dictated the pace at which you acquired items, not their actual power)
    - - - snip - - -
    ps. By the way, 2/4 ilvl can be quite adequate upgrades, main thing is to properly distribute/configure characteristics' performance. They don’t need to do inadequate easing of requirements (DPS/HPS for certain encounters), just equalize indicators a little, since you have a lot of items on you, and now add to each of them upgrades... not a little, does it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    By the way, upgrades' system isn't bad for lengthening the process (if you really want to torment PvP players)... but not so many steps, guys, have a conscience, MoP's 2/4ilvl extra steps system for each tier is enough here (especially considering how much I hate abnormal stat inflation you generate), otherwise, price of upgrades should be minimal. Also... why only PvP then, how about same stuff for PvE, mmm?
    Add here all high-level upgrades from above (craftsmen are "cheering" here) which could required boe+bop reagents&recipes that tied to raid (or terrain comparable with them on hardness) only, which will also a certain type of upgrade. Also here we talked a little about catch-ups.

    Not necessary literally this, but something like... and, I repeat, it’s all within same ilvl = with completely insignificant increase in direct basic stats, no RNG (mostly, since no point in inventing literally every item so "generated" low-(level/quality) "no-name" loot/craft is acceptable because it doesn't really change weather, even kind of generated content-tiers, which consist of such items, so parts can be easily replaced, but without fanaticism in this, since, considering tier bonuses, each separately taken its item can/should be worse than non-tier one), no x-forge items, no personal loot and no millions of difficulties, etc, with caveat that everything that is contained in base item without connecting various kinds of customization - this is only 60-95% of its "power" potential depending on available upgrades and taking into account additional special capabilities of various craftsmen.

    - possible problems in form, that automatic search system can't work with such stuff (ilvl-based participants' selection), are solved simply, it's (a.s.s.) cut out to hell from the system and everyone safely forget about it over time - But what about CRZ grouping then? - Oh, I'm sure game won't need it, by the way - never did

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    By the way, taking this opportunity, I would like to spit at auto-search system in this case. Do you know why? Its check/setup is very dependent on attachment of role with spec ("customization" must clearly express role in order to pass its verification, but old system of "roles", as already mentioned, required rather effective "gear" check for this). There is big desire to say that it was for the sake of this rubbish that whole tomfoolery was started, since hybrids were "unsuitable"/interfered with similar system.
    ----------------------------------------
    As for this "so-called plan" with corrupted equipment, it, like all other attempts to create temporary solutions, is exactly what I called them - a temporary and often ineffective solution. We discussed this in topics with AA, in topics with x-forge equipment, since everything that they try to solve separately continues (no matter how much they would like to change it, but) to be interconnected. For example, you raised question of “who is worthy to get improved equipment”
    - - -
    honestly, this so called fact that "people, for current system, can choose content based on their preferences" is universal nonsense (OK, they can, but), current system has corrupted community so much that those majority, for which all this was sort of done, will choose not what they like to do, but what will be easier and faster = more efficient, and none of your arguments change this, just current system "taught" them to acting this way... so yes, but *shaking head negatively* NO, see? *pointing down*
    StrawberryZebra
    That leaves me in a place where I don't know what content I should be doing to get gear upgrades, and can't recognise them when they come along.
    - be careful with whom and how you try to help, because bad help is no help; just stick to base design rules, this is what was originally expected from you, these are your direct purpose and responsibility

    - - -
    but according to progress hierarchy, raids should be the most difficult PvE content (so endpoint of full accessible content/story and progress), both from mechanical and social point of view (your challenges with stupid systems with infinitely amount of complexities should never (not just appearing, but) ever even be considered within framework of this concept; you want challenge? - do it for fun/optional-cosmetics and don't ask to spoil working system for this) => changes in organization of progress and accessibility of content, in social regulation led to destabilization of entire system: growth rate of characteristics, prioritize in RPG-customization, and thus approach to creation talents, and thus damage class design ideology and as result - you get here *pointing at current game version* Therefore, no matter how much you say about fact that “people just leave the game from difficulties”, you aren't right simply because you proceed from its current design: from availability of universally fast and easily accessible equipment, from incredible growth (see forge-items&multi-difficulties systems as main reasons) of stats and characteristics within (now), not even expansions, but portions of content, from short, but with many difficulties dungeons and same stupid raids, from "depersonalizing/individualizing gameplay" social organization of servers, etc. In other words, when we argue, we not only look from different angles of view, but also at completely different "resulting" design systems... but it's if we assume that you're able to think more globally, and not only within "current private inconvenience".

    I didn’t really go deep into reading this stupid thing, but... is "corrupted" available everywhere or only for raids? Does this "thing" make participation in raids unique, or is it still cross-content porn? It's just that everyone is shouting about next RNG layer - it's certainly bad, that it's somehow trying to change something that should not have been touched at all - same bad, but maybe at least that moment they began to understand... Hah?
    Do I want a simple system? I have long ago answered this question:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    kamuimac
    and ? 99% of playerbase dont play like this.
    If it's about "current playerbase" then don't know, it could be, may be. But I couldn't name any of my friends whom I could include in these 99% back then, if to make discount on "tolerance", so let it be 50%, but in fact there were not so many as you think. Yes, not everyone did it well, but they made attempts to understand, mash the brain at least. We aren't even talking about this, but about whole system (classes(mechanics)+talents+stats/characteristics+tuning=RPG), it was much less complicated before! easier to analyze and understand than now. Naturally, yes, you don't need to understand it to play now, but if you suddenly will want, it'll probably take more time... and for what? Most of dependencies and information are not even tied to your character, but lying around somewhere in the mud (PvP talents, Azerite armor, etc.) tightly adhered to it and not accessible to you. Therefore, as one of the most lazy, but curious people, I would gladly change current system to old one at any time.
    These people know what ideologically I'm talking about:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    By the way: they still don't want to give up "box" rewards, without looking at all talk about "loot is loot", but by definition, loot is loot in the first place when it drops from boss for any whole party, that can kill it, and in only single/possible "instance", without scaling to spec/level/ilvl *pointing finger at new weekly loot boxing system* Well, where is fixed loot table and linear progres system? None of this, just idle talk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Chosen characteristics are your role customization mechanism and gear is its main keeper, so customization = gear matters.
    No matter how many items of this level exist with different characteristics, the main thing is that you have a controlled choice. Therefore, the more items at your disposal, the more opportunities you have for customization, but since gear=customization, than it remains important.
    - He assumes that everyone chooses a piece of clothing depending on general characteristics he/she prefers for the own role (it could be even rogue tank/support, everything possible, gear is your role not you class, remember DKs from WotLK, that's why guardian/feral fills no problem in been at the same talent branch, but they changed/broke it). They aren't tied to character general progression (= class; unlike silly AA), they are tied to progress in expansion (= gear). And there is no such stupid stuff like many random items on 1 id = scaling to ilvl/lvl/spec (scaling/RNG=automatic=not your choice≈no choice for current system); characteristics are fixed on this particular item (you can disturb them a little with reforging and that's all, than put more effort with professions and here you go - you have all control over your customization):
    You have control over choose which item you need, know where and how get it and how you will custom it.
    - Hail the player, f*ck devs' dictatorship
    This is another of many reasons why people are used to "skipping" "rushing" systems, trash has no significance (items-objectives, reagents, reputation, whatever) except to slow down player, bosses don't conventionally have any loot as such, so whole party rosily and cheerfully rushing to the "end" to get this "lootbox", and they don't need whole dungeon as such, as place/lore/challenge - this is what happened with one of significant element of progress and lore in the game under influence of M+ system
    ...but such kind of freedom imposes certain requirements on system, which may entail rejection of something that, due to greed and laziness, they probably won't want to refuse.

    What do I think of characteristics such as hit, mastery, expertise, spirit, mp5, etc? - excellent characteristics, which not only help in organizing limits of power growth rate, catch-up mechanics, separation of interests in players’ participation (PvP vs PvE), sequence of progress, but also in separation of game roles and maintaining integrity of fantasy of particular game universe (immersion price).
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    2. Characteristics (&shame to PvP talent system + time-gate/catch-up, item-case) +(+/+/+/+/+/+)+/+/+

    Description of system initially used outside of regular loot (badges and other currency):
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    In fact, everything was easier. In other words there was(+/+/+):
    rank 1 currency, unlimited in amount of receipted, just in having each those (it gives basic set and upgrades to it in both PvP and PvE),
    rank 2 with cap (for PvP it was limited by week interval; for PvE I don’t remember exactly, but it seems that there were several different items required to buy tier pieces in addition to base raid currency, and for usual 2 rank currency it was possible to buy only alternative off-set pieces (at first it didn't has rank 2, just more badge "costly" stuff (shouldn't have characteristics' "belonging" to content/type of activity), and limited by number of "heroic bosses" dropping it once a week, yes - yes, we are talking one more time about that M+ is turd for such mechanics, however, as well as for many other stuff)). Amount and receiving speed of 2nd rank currency in PvP depended on rating and content, PvE had natural limitation in form of raids and their CD, so also content + Additional daily/weekly quests to win/beat, which, however, didn't give you opportunity to go beyond cap.

    It seems that exchange existed, but with such an exorbitant ratio that in current season/tier wasn't used by anyone, only after its de-actualization and price change/reduction (imo this is very good and correct, PvP/PvE currency must be different same as items, if you want full-fledged desired currency, take part in specific content, therefore, I won't welcome exchange of especially rank 2). I remember that I spent rank 1 on items that transfer corresponding currency to my other characters, less active ones (aka passive twinking), and after that - to buy items that could simply be sold to vender for gold.

    Each new tier/season savings were resetting and(or) degrade.

    - correct me, people, if i'm wrong somewhere here

    This is with regard to currency, and now upgrades - I'm very skeptical about them within framework of general itemization model (because this affects stretching of season/tier ilvl range (=inflation), same was my attitude for t/wf's one part of problem), but, for example, MoP option was more or less suited to me. Take for example hypothetical general function of upgrades where each source of items has certain content ceiling, above which person taking part in one can't jump. Thus, you'll not be able to get items of rank inappropriate to your progress. Somehow get closer as possible - yes, but to reach - no. I'm not sure how pertinently it's for current thread, but I'd like to emphasize separately that simply don't take most kind of "scaling/Legendaries" as adequate system.

    So... take and compare adequate stuff that was with what you're trying to offer today, hmm?..

    ps. Don't play too much with upgrades, you can overshoot the mark with it.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2022-04-08 at 05:44 AM.
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  8. #268
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    Before I would have said no but after playing classic yeah there is something nice about just gunning for a single piece of gear, getting it and not comparing it to its Heroic/Mythic/Titanforge/Warforged version.

  9. #269
    Meh, I liked the smaller TF from MoP, just a little bonus, nothing major, but the rest can piss off. I would like token vendors back though.

  10. #270
    i'd like to see gearing brought back to wotlk.

    normal gear, no titan or corrupt fuckery.

    have gear progression go back to a similar pattern that it used to be:

    normal -> heroic -> mythic = normal raid -> heroic raid -> mythic.

    bring back justice points, let people buy most slots worth of normal raid gear from vendors, say 2200 for a chest piece, then let them be able to grind to upgrade a piece to heroic by trading in their normal piece + 4400 points. have mythic gear only for mythic, but have a vendor that lets mythic players buy supplementary gear, as an rng failsafe.

    mythic+ dungeons throw a wrench into it, but i suppose the highest tier of mythic+ dungeon, the gear could also be equivalent to mythic raid loot. give mythic raiders something else to do if they so wish.

    i would have LFR turned into a singleplayer storymode of the raid(maybe add singleplayer challenge modes you could choose, too? like mage tower basically). no real loot, only cosmetics. your average person could farm justice points through heroics and get a good bit of raid loot(no rings, necks or weapons, gotta raid for those), so just have normal raid loot be the standard that everything in the world is balanced around(meaning removing the goddamned ilvl scaling because it's counter to everything an rpg should be).

    gives people decent loot, and a grind that has an end point so people can get a sense of completion.

  11. #271
    I think it's safe to say most people want this. So, Blizz will never do it.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by mythicowow View Post
    Yep. I miss actually being happy that the item I wanted from a boss dropped. Now it's all a big disappointment unless you pass multiple RNG checks and get that socket + titanforge (soon corruptforge) + tertiary stats. It's sad. You complete the content at the difficulty you've been working at, you should feel rewarded, instead it's nothing but disappointment until the RNG lottery swings your way. I miss when BIS actually felt like a somewhat feasible goal before the next patch came and reset it anyway (so what's the big deal if we get BIS for a little while?).

    They want us to keep doing content even if we get BIS, they should add some sort of account wide paragon system. Encourage us to play an alt when 1 character is pretty much maxed out, which would still contribute to all our characters through account wide systems.
    That is a "you" problem. YOU don't need any of these to happen to clear all the content plus having acquired all the bis from raid left you with zero incentive to play it again. Now at least it's not zero.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    MoP system - gear can WF to 6ilvl higher than base. Currency that you earn by doing raids, m+ chest and emissaries can upgrade it twice (5ilvl each time).
    The upgrade was nice. It was a built in nerf of the content. Valor felt better than grinding AP; it might have been "mandatory" but it had a defined and easy to reach weekly end. I agree the extra levels from WF were fine, hell even the tertiary traits are OK. Just not mammath amounts of TF.

    I would really like tier sets back. They were a plan for how they would change up raid rotations every tier.

  14. #274
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    No point changing it, would cause an uproar as people have already adapted to retail's garbage, far inferior systems. I'd rather sell my arse on the street corners than have to deal with titanforging and other carrot on a string "incentives" they can only offer.

  15. #275
    Hi Ange,

    I don't think my suggestion is like benthic gear at all. I'll try to explain it more fundamentally. At max level I kill the first boss of Eternal Palace - Sivarra. From that kill and achievement I can go to a vendor or just have a UI like heirlooms where I have simply unlocked that gear and can equip it (different to the acquisition of Benthic with rolling endlessly and time gated on pearls per day).

    Next there might be slots on all gear that I can socket gems into, or runes or whatever and this gives me 100% of secondaries, so If I want to spec full crit, for the lols or because of sims, I can do that. I am no longer bound to the RNG of the gods with whatever does or doesn't drop. So to me this isn't like benthic at all. I don't want random chance anything. As far as I am aware, this has never been done in the history of World of Warcraft.

    Lastly I am very tired of Blizzard treating me as if I only play to get rewards of iLvl. I play WoW because I enjoy the gameplay/content/world. I am more than happy to be done with gearing and will still log in. Their notion that players only play for rewards is incorrect and wrong. Look at classic. People don't lose all motivation after they kill Ragnaros or Onyxia. They don't stop logging in because they earn Sulfuras. They get those items to then PvP or akf in Org to show off. They want to log into the world and be a part of it. Basically it is high time World of Warcraft goes back to its roots and becomes more of a sandbox themepark than a full themepark where they force you into holding their proverbial hand.

    I think the freedom to have a class/spec that can do 10 dps versus a more optimal build of 100 dps is great. If I want to play my 10 dps build and be a solo player I can be. If I want to join groups and they won't invite me until I go the 100 dps build? That's fine too. I don't need Blizzard's protection if someone tries to hurt my feelings in a video game. They have taken this way too far. Gives us freedom in gearing, in playing and if people make mistakes that's okay because they can learn from them.

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demeia View Post
    The upgrade was nice. It was a built in nerf of the content. Valor felt better than grinding AP; it might have been "mandatory" but it had a defined and easy to reach weekly end. I agree the extra levels from WF were fine, hell even the tertiary traits are OK. Just not mammath amounts of TF.

    I would really like tier sets back. They were a plan for how they would change up raid rotations every tier.
    Tier sets will probably come back next expac. they would've this time round were it not for azerite armor

  17. #277
    Remove titanforging and sockets and leech, leave warforging in but make it rarer.

  18. #278
    OP is truly the John Lennon of MooChamp

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Tier sets will probably come back next expac. they would've this time round were it not for azerite armor
    expect to hear shitty kids complain about not getting sets from M+ and how it's unfair, and how azerite was better (it is better than tier)

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    That is a "you" problem. YOU don't need any of these to happen to clear all the content plus having acquired all the bis from raid left you with zero incentive to play it again. Now at least it's not zero.
    A lot of players feel the same way as him.

    I remember when my guild and I first killed Mythic Ashvane and I was so lucky that I got a mythic version of the Razor Coral. However, the day after there was a player in my M+ group with a with a 450 Heroic Titanforged version of the Razor Coral with a socket. So even though I had spent a lot of hours with my guild killing Mythic Ashvane, I still got a worse reward than the lucky guy who only killed Ashvane on heroic. Feels bad.

    The best gear should exclusively come for the hardest content.

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