Bring "normal gear" back?

[derpkitteh]

i'd like to see gearing brought back to wotlk.

normal gear, no titan or corrupt fuckery.

have gear progression go back to a similar pattern that it used to be:

normal -> heroic -> mythic = normal raid -> heroic raid -> mythic.

bring back justice points, let people buy most slots worth of normal raid gear from vendors, say 2200 for a chest piece, then let them be able to grind to upgrade a piece to heroic by trading in their normal piece + 4400 points. have mythic gear only for mythic, but have a vendor that lets mythic players buy supplementary gear, as an rng failsafe.

mythic+ dungeons throw a wrench into it, but i suppose the highest tier of mythic+ dungeon, the gear could also be equivalent to mythic raid loot. give mythic raiders something else to do if they so wish.

i would have LFR turned into a singleplayer storymode of the raid(maybe add singleplayer challenge modes you could choose, too? like mage tower basically). no real loot, only cosmetics. your average person could farm justice points through heroics and get a good bit of raid loot(no rings, necks or weapons, gotta raid for those), so just have normal raid loot be the standard that everything in the world is balanced around(meaning removing the goddamned ilvl scaling because it's counter to everything an rpg should be).

gives people decent loot, and a grind that has an end point so people can get a sense of completion.

[avahle]

I think it's safe to say most people want this. So, Blizz will never do it.

[kaminaris]

Yep. I miss actually being happy that the item I wanted from a boss dropped. Now it's all a big disappointment unless you pass multiple RNG checks and get that socket + titanforge (soon corruptforge) + tertiary stats. It's sad. You complete the content at the difficulty you've been working at, you should feel rewarded, instead it's nothing but disappointment until the RNG lottery swings your way. I miss when BIS actually felt like a somewhat feasible goal before the next patch came and reset it anyway (so what's the big deal if we get BIS for a little while?).

They want us to keep doing content even if we get BIS, they should add some sort of account wide paragon system. Encourage us to play an alt when 1 character is pretty much maxed out, which would still contribute to all our characters through account wide systems.

That is a "you" problem. YOU don't need any of these to happen to clear all the content plus having acquired all the bis from raid left you with zero incentive to play it again. Now at least it's not zero.

[Demeia]

MoP system - gear can WF to 6ilvl higher than base. Currency that you earn by doing raids, m+ chest and emissaries can upgrade it twice (5ilvl each time).

The upgrade was nice. It was a built in nerf of the content. Valor felt better than grinding AP; it might have been "mandatory" but it had a defined and easy to reach weekly end. I agree the extra levels from WF were fine, hell even the tertiary traits are OK. Just not mammath amounts of TF.

I would really like tier sets back. They were a plan for how they would change up raid rotations every tier.

[TJ]

No point changing it, would cause an uproar as people have already adapted to retail's garbage, far inferior systems. I'd rather sell my arse on the street corners than have to deal with titanforging and other carrot on a string "incentives" they can only offer.

[whytetree]

Hi Ange,

I don't think my suggestion is like benthic gear at all. I'll try to explain it more fundamentally. At max level I kill the first boss of Eternal Palace - Sivarra. From that kill and achievement I can go to a vendor or just have a UI like heirlooms where I have simply unlocked that gear and can equip it (different to the acquisition of Benthic with rolling endlessly and time gated on pearls per day).

Next there might be slots on all gear that I can socket gems into, or runes or whatever and this gives me 100% of secondaries, so If I want to spec full crit, for the lols or because of sims, I can do that. I am no longer bound to the RNG of the gods with whatever does or doesn't drop. So to me this isn't like benthic at all. I don't want random chance anything. As far as I am aware, this has never been done in the history of World of Warcraft.

Lastly I am very tired of Blizzard treating me as if I only play to get rewards of iLvl. I play WoW because I enjoy the gameplay/content/world. I am more than happy to be done with gearing and will still log in. Their notion that players only play for rewards is incorrect and wrong. Look at classic. People don't lose all motivation after they kill Ragnaros or Onyxia. They don't stop logging in because they earn Sulfuras. They get those items to then PvP or akf in Org to show off. They want to log into the world and be a part of it. Basically it is high time World of Warcraft goes back to its roots and becomes more of a sandbox themepark than a full themepark where they force you into holding their proverbial hand.

I think the freedom to have a class/spec that can do 10 dps versus a more optimal build of 100 dps is great. If I want to play my 10 dps build and be a solo player I can be. If I want to join groups and they won't invite me until I go the 100 dps build? That's fine too. I don't need Blizzard's protection if someone tries to hurt my feelings in a video game. They have taken this way too far. Gives us freedom in gearing, in playing and if people make mistakes that's okay because they can learn from them.

[MrLachyG]

The upgrade was nice. It was a built in nerf of the content. Valor felt better than grinding AP; it might have been "mandatory" but it had a defined and easy to reach weekly end. I agree the extra levels from WF were fine, hell even the tertiary traits are OK. Just not mammath amounts of TF.

I would really like tier sets back. They were a plan for how they would change up raid rotations every tier.

Tier sets will probably come back next expac. they would've this time round were it not for azerite armor

[Todesbote]

Remove titanforging and sockets and leech, leave warforging in but make it rarer.

[lockybalboa]

OP is truly the John Lennon of MooChamp

[rohoz]

Tier sets will probably come back next expac. they would've this time round were it not for azerite armor

expect to hear shitty kids complain about not getting sets from M+ and how it's unfair, and how azerite was better (it is better than tier)

[Kaver]

That is a "you" problem. YOU don't need any of these to happen to clear all the content plus having acquired all the bis from raid left you with zero incentive to play it again. Now at least it's not zero.

A lot of players feel the same way as him.

I remember when my guild and I first killed Mythic Ashvane and I was so lucky that I got a mythic version of the Razor Coral. However, the day after there was a player in my M+ group with a with a 450 Heroic Titanforged version of the Razor Coral with a socket. So even though I had spent a lot of hours with my guild killing Mythic Ashvane, I still got a worse reward than the lucky guy who only killed Ashvane on heroic. Feels bad.

The best gear should exclusively come for the hardest content.

[endersblade]

I miss the days when Bob's Epic Shoulders of Epicness had the same exact stats no matter who got them or how. It annoys me to no end that gear can now 'proc' tertiary stats, sockets, etc. That's too much RNG for WoW. Not only do you have to get it to drop, but you have to get it to proc the 'right' stats to make it good.

I don't know if this has been fixed recently, but I remember the last time I played I was getting gear from quests that didn't make any sense. I would get a pair of blue pants from one quest that would have (e.g.) 400 Stam, 400 STR, ilevel 145, and then the very next quest I would get a pair of epic pants that were identical in every way, except they were epic. It made absolutely no sense. Two items, different rarities, same exact stats, same exact ilevel. Never before did I feel like epics were so worthless.

I miss epics feeling epic. And no, I don't mean that they have to be rare and hard to get. The differences in stats between greens, blues and epics feel like they margins have been getting smaller and smaller. It was always fun doing a long quest chain that resulted in an epic that blew your other gear out of the water. Or doing raids and getting epic gear from higher tiers, where you look at it and just go "duh, major upgrade here!", instead of having to play spreadsheet sim calculator to figure out if the .001% increase in DPS is worth losing another stat for.

So yes, I want them to bring 'normal' gear back.

[kamuimac]

I miss the days when Bob's Epic Shoulders of Epicness had the same exact stats no matter who got them or how. It annoys me to no end that gear can now 'proc' tertiary stats, sockets, etc. That's too much RNG for WoW. Not only do you have to get it to drop, but you have to get it to proc the 'right' stats to make it good.

I don't know if this has been fixed recently, but I remember the last time I played I was getting gear from quests that didn't make any sense. I would get a pair of blue pants from one quest that would have (e.g.) 400 Stam, 400 STR, ilevel 145, and then the very next quest I would get a pair of epic pants that were identical in every way, except they were epic. It made absolutely no sense. Two items, different rarities, same exact stats, same exact ilevel. Never before did I feel like epics were so worthless.

I miss epics feeling epic. And no, I don't mean that they have to be rare and hard to get. The differences in stats between greens, blues and epics feel like they margins have been getting smaller and smaller. It was always fun doing a long quest chain that resulted in an epic that blew your other gear out of the water. Or doing raids and getting epic gear from higher tiers, where you look at it and just go "duh, major upgrade here!", instead of having to play spreadsheet sim calculator to figure out if the .001% increase in DPS is worth losing another stat for.

So yes, I want them to bring 'normal' gear back.

thats not the fault of gear

thats the fault of world scaling with your gear.

if it didnt scale you would indeed feel so much stronger when obtaining blue/purple gear.

because of scaling you dont.

because when hitting 120 and killing world mob took you 6-7 seconds - now it takes you 5-6 seconds. because scaling. and beecause blizzard has to boost MAU.

mobs have became bullets sponge - they can kill you but it takes still forever to kill them

[rohoz]

thats not the fault of gear

thats the fault of world scaling with your gear.

if it didnt scale you would indeed feel so much stronger when obtaining blue/purple gear.

because of scaling you dont.

because when hitting 120 and killing world mob took you 6-7 seconds - now it takes you 5-6 seconds. because scaling. and beecause blizzard has to boost MAU.

mobs have became bullets sponge - they can kill you but it takes still forever to kill them

anyone with up to date gear basically murders entire continents in a single pull.
This is how people know you don't play and have no idea what you're talking about.

[RainBoi]

Gear has become a joke where you no longer can tell if a piece is an upgrade just by looking at it - There are all kinds of damage procs/buffs that you can't judge yourself. You need to consult a third party website to figure out if an item 15 ilvls lower is an upgrade or not just because it has a few specific bonuses that are impossible to figure out how good they are by simply looking at a piece. Fuck that honestly. Bring back the old days where it was much easier to tell if a belt with huge mastery and crit was an upgrade or if you prefered haste.

[shise]

I would like it, yes. I just don´t know if I want hit rating again tho, that was a pain in the arse and a waste of other nice stats.

[Alkizon]

shise
that was a pain in the arse and a waste of other nice stats.

Well, that was one of its appointments, but it was far from "the only" one, as well as other specifying/separating your chosen content for mastering, in this case it’s one of “mandatory” PvE characteristic, do I need to clarify PvP one?

Kaver
runned by Marketing people instead of Product developers. They have a lot of ideas but they don't have the abilities to make those ideas work

it's a little offended given the nature of my work

Kaver
Don't get me wrong. Marketing is extremely important and required. You can have the best product in the world but without good marketing it is not going to sell. However, a good product is not created by marketing people

Yes and no. People can sell their own knowledge to others, naturally if they have it, and then they become producers, while remaining in marketing field - lets call them consultants. Moreover, there are people, who are responsible for organizing marketing process (management) as a whole and then they sell their time and nerves, that is, again they are bearers of resource being sold and continue to be responsible for marketing as a whole. And there are a lot of all kinds of such people. Why is this all? In my opinion (in this particular case), it's rather question of personal interest and priorities, doesn't matter if person is directly involved in production or marketing/sales. It’s more interesting to understand the question of what exactly are they trying sell us... well, you (since I don’t play), essence of product offered to you, its key and important component for consumer. Marketers often have to play the role of a L'homme orchestre and if literally (with own hands) person may not be able to make a “product” (lack of direct knowledge of nomenclature/tools), then at least fully understands all aspects of the system and how to behave in order to put engineer in mind with customer
- - -
knows both, understands exactly who is who, can "play/perform" both roles, previous devs seemed to play both of these roles, they made game for themselves, for those like themselves, and now suppose, for example, that they were representatives of average player, and current devs are representatives of spoiled toxic "corrupted" elite, who don't really care about interest/needs of role/pvp/ordinary players, what they really (not everything, what they ask for on forums, because, as already seen from links, they are often inclined to ask for all sorts of stupid bull$hit, and no matter how many times you explain them same stuff about, that this doesn't work in such way) need and how to implement it, could it be the problem of "decisions leading to game's current social genesis (quantity/composition)"?; will this change your mind?
- - -
because of fact that they simply speak in "different languages". It's typical thing (and here we smoothly return to our topic) when engineer/programmer can completely unnecessarily and uselessly complicate system just for the sake of own interest, which will overload/cease to meet initial conditions of ordinary consumer, which of course will not-benefit product and negatively affect both, timing and customer’s attitude to firm/product/person. Everything isn't so simple here

[Xemioza]

WF, TF , AP , Azerite Traits, Artifact Power, random sockets, lack of enchants on gear were the dumbest things ever happened to WoW. Especially AP with "single expansions" content.

[Kaver]

WF, TF , AP , Azerite Traits, Artifact Power, random sockets, lack of enchants on gear were the dumbest things ever happened to WoW. Especially AP with "single expansions" content.

The worst thing is that those systems don't even fulfil their purpose.

Azerite gear and Essences were added to give Players more customization (according to Blizzard). However, how much customization do those systems really add? Almost Zero. So in my mind they are pointless. Why not just focus the resources on optimizing the talent system? Why have 3 systems instead of 1 if those systems don't add any value?

Blizzard has become a company runned by Marketing people instead of Product developers. They have a lot of ideas but they don't have the abilities to make those ideas work. They lack basic knowledge of how to make a solid product. They need to hire more Product minded people.

- - - Updated - - -

it's a little offended given the nature of my work

Don't get me wrong. Marketing is extremely important and required. You can have the best product in the world but without good marketing it is not going to sell. However, a good product is not created by marketing people

[kaminaris]

A lot of players feel the same way as him.

I remember when my guild and I first killed Mythic Ashvane and I was so lucky that I got a mythic version of the Razor Coral. However, the day after there was a player in my M+ group with a with a 450 Heroic Titanforged version of the Razor Coral with a socket. So even though I had spent a lot of hours with my guild killing Mythic Ashvane, I still got a worse reward than the lucky guy who only killed Ashvane on heroic. Feels bad.

The best gear should exclusively come for the hardest content.

No it doesn't "feel bad" it's fucking jealousy in purest form. In other words you will never be happy as long as someone can get better gear than you.
You killed ashvane, they didn't.