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  1. #1

    For any NieR Automata fans out there... Patch 5.1 is out

    So I think Square Enix went above and beyond on this one. Video is not mine but the boss theme with a mix of FF14 and Nier Automata is flipping amazing. For those confused this is a thing Square Enix just does as extra content during their expansions lol


  2. #2
    The raid was fantastic! Also got my 2b set on my first run.
    No one is above the law! Not even the president!

  3. #3
    best part is the dress is unisex.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    The raid was fantastic! Also got my 2b set on my first run.
    Lucky fucker

    - - - Updated - - -

    Got the Pod minion on my first run

  5. #5
    All the sets from the raid and it shows how they look on both female/male.
    No one is above the law! Not even the president!

  6. #6
    Raid was ok.

    I enjoyed the music and the fights were ok. Nothing special. It was pretty trivial though, not quite VA, but easier than any of the FFT series raids.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Raid was ok.

    I enjoyed the music and the fights were ok. Nothing special. It was pretty trivial though, not quite VA, but easier than any of the FFT series raids.
    I would honestly assume that's by design. The FFT series raids had some pretty brutal bosses for 24 man "LFR" level stuff. I think they're taking a step down from that, which IMO is a good thing for this content specifically. I don't mind a challenge, but in situations where you have three 8-man teams and all 3 teams need to perform relatively flawlessly (Thundergod specifically) it makes it not so fun when your team does fine and some other team is full of idiots causing you to waste time and effort.

    I personally really like the raid, but as you said, it's really nothing all that special except for the visuals, the actual boss mechanics aren't that different from things we've already seen. I'm so sick of the mid fight DPS check/charge mechanic that insta wipes you if you miss it for some reason....it's EVERYWHERE.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Aoyi's Avatar
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    I never played Nier Automata, but after doing this raid, I'm thinking of getting it. The raid had some really awesome fights and I'd like to check out the game the came from.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I would honestly assume that's by design. The FFT series raids had some pretty brutal bosses for 24 man "LFR" level stuff. I think they're taking a step down from that, which IMO is a good thing for this content specifically. I don't mind a challenge, but in situations where you have three 8-man teams and all 3 teams need to perform relatively flawlessly (Thundergod specifically) it makes it not so fun when your team does fine and some other team is full of idiots causing you to waste time and effort.

    I personally really like the raid, but as you said, it's really nothing all that special except for the visuals, the actual boss mechanics aren't that different from things we've already seen. I'm so sick of the mid fight DPS check/charge mechanic that insta wipes you if you miss it for some reason....it's EVERYWHERE.
    Cid was stupidly easy. There are only 2 mechanics in the entire fight that are dangerous. 3 people need to stand on circles on each side and you need to kite the sword. That's it. Everything else is trivial and doesn't wipe the raid. Hashmal was harder by a significant margin. I would even agree he was a hair overtuned for the lower skilled playerbase, but SPEAKING personally I think that he and Shinryu should be the example of floor difficulty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aoyi View Post
    I never played Nier Automata, but after doing this raid, I'm thinking of getting it. The raid had some really awesome fights and I'd like to check out the game the came from.
    It's a great game, almost an instant classic. It has a very compelling story, solid gfx, and a stellar OST (one of the best in modern gaming IMO). However, the combat while flashy and *fun*; gets boring and repetitive incredibly quickly. Even on the hardest difficulties a lot of bosses simply sit there and let you kill them. I found almost no challenge past the initial boss fight and I was playing on the hardest non-1hko difficulty.

    I also found the repeated playthroughs to be a bit grating and not varied enough. They were good thematically, but mechanically lacking a bit. Still I strongly recommend the game for the experience alone.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Cid was stupidly easy. There are only 2 mechanics in the entire fight that are dangerous. 3 people need to stand on circles on each side and you need to kite the sword. That's it. Everything else is trivial and doesn't wipe the raid. Hashmal was harder by a significant margin. I would even agree he was a hair overtuned for the lower skilled playerbase, but SPEAKING personally I think that he and Shinryu should be the example of floor difficulty.
    Easy in concept, not necessarily in execution for a 24 man raid. Cid is where raids I was in failed consistently due to lack of coordination. Hashmal may have been harder mechanically, but I wiped significantly fewer times on him than on Cid.

    I don't disagree with you though, but mechanics have never really been the difficult part of raiding, it's been the coordination across the group in executing/resolving them. That's why the "raid killers" in the 24 man raids have historically been the ones that require the three Alliances to operate independently and execute mechanics in coordination with each other.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Easy in concept, not necessarily in execution for a 24 man raid. Cid is where raids I was in failed consistently due to lack of coordination. Hashmal may have been harder mechanically, but I wiped significantly fewer times on him than on Cid.

    I don't disagree with you though, but mechanics have never really been the difficult part of raiding, it's been the coordination across the group in executing/resolving them. That's why the "raid killers" in the 24 man raids have historically been the ones that require the three Alliances to operate independently and execute mechanics in coordination with each other.
    There's nothing challenging in the execution of asking someone to stand in the Duskblade circles. It's the type of mechanic that you die to once and you should have complete understanding of afterwards and never mess it up again. It doesn't layer over existing mechanics, it doesn't require you to have specifically 3 people, it just needs to be 3+. The first I did it blind I saw it pop up and had no idea what it was, but noticed that everyone went to them and I was the only clown ignoring them. I picked a side and went. Completed the mechanic.

    Later on in subsequent runs, we wiped on it. I didn't understand why. I asked why, some other alliance had some players who were new and didn't understand you had to get in the circle. Ok, that's fair afterall I got lucky my first time. However, we then wiped to it a second time. that's when I was like ok, how exactly do you fail this mechanic twice?

    Compare this to something like Kromogg Mythic where you had 20 hand runes pop up and EACH player has to get in one and CANNOT overlap. You then have to time breaking people out sequentially to stagger incoming raid damage, but also making sure you get out key players ASAP. Then OVERLAP that with other mechanics like AOEs, tankbusters, etc.

    That can be challenging execution (nevermind the fact that someone designed a mod that trivialized the assignment piece of it). Cid is not challenging in execution in any standard of modern MMO gaming.

    I'll use Mustadio as an example. If I was in charge of designing him, his cutscene sniper ability would overlap with the arena pulses and horizontal robot lasers and be random for each player as well as his positioning. That way you have to identify his position, your safe camera position, as well as the safe squares to stand in. That's what I think would make that appropriately challenging.
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2019-11-04 at 09:06 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    There's nothing challenging in the execution of asking someone to stand in the Duskblade circles. It's the type of mechanic that you die to once and you should have complete understanding of afterwards and never mess it up again. It doesn't layer over existing mechanics, it doesn't require you to have specifically 3 people, it just needs to be 3+. The first I did it blind I saw it pop up and had no idea what it was, but noticed that everyone went to them and I was the only clown ignoring them. I picked a side and went. Completed the mechanic.

    Later on in subsequent runs, we wiped on it. I didn't understand why. I asked why, some other alliance had some players who were new and didn't understand you had to get in the circle. Ok, that's fair afterall I got lucky my first time. However, we then wiped to it a second time. that's when I was like ok, how exactly do you fail this mechanic twice?
    Again, not disagreeing with you in principal, in that the mechanic itself is not challenging. The challenging part seems to be in getting multiple (translated: enough) people to coordinate doing it and successfully resolving it.

    As I said, Hashmal and Mustadio may have been mechanically more difficult, but I wiped on them FAR fewer times than on Cid and the VA equivalent: Ozma. That tells me it is more difficult/harder/ more rare for a 24 man raid to coordinate than it is for 24 people to resolve mechanics individually.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Again, not disagreeing with you in principal, in that the mechanic itself is not challenging. The challenging part seems to be in getting multiple (translated: enough) people to coordinate doing it and successfully resolving it.

    As I said, Hashmal and Mustadio may have been mechanically more difficult, but I wiped on them FAR fewer times than on Cid and the VA equivalent: Ozma. That tells me it is more difficult/harder/ more rare for a 24 man raid to coordinate than it is for 24 people to resolve mechanics individually.
    The problem isn't really the "difficulty" so much as it is finding people who give a fuck enough to be the one to execute the mechanics.

    I guess we can call that a "difficulty" in its own way, but eh. Ultimately, just the concept of "giving a fuck" is the only meaningful bar to most MMO content anyway.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The problem isn't really the "difficulty" so much as it is finding people who give a fuck enough to be the one to execute the mechanics.

    I guess we can call that a "difficulty" in its own way, but eh. Ultimately, just the concept of "giving a fuck" is the only meaningful bar to most MMO content anyway.
    Which is fair. Difficulty may not be the right word, but you get where I'm coming from here. It's not really the encounter mechanics keeping the raid from clearing, it's the people in the raid not doing the mechanic.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Again, not disagreeing with you in principal, in that the mechanic itself is not challenging. The challenging part seems to be in getting multiple (translated: enough) people to coordinate doing it and successfully resolving it.

    As I said, Hashmal and Mustadio may have been mechanically more difficult, but I wiped on them FAR fewer times than on Cid and the VA equivalent: Ozma. That tells me it is more difficult/harder/ more rare for a 24 man raid to coordinate than it is for 24 people to resolve mechanics individually.
    Yeah we're on the same page on the concept of coordination as difficulty. We both agree that it's a genuine component/example.

    Where I think I'm failing to explain or you understand is that I'm saying Cid DOES NOT have a difficult coordination check. There's no excuse past the first time you fail that mechanic to ever fail it again. There's not an iota of challenge in standing in duskblade circles. It's an incredibly simple binary coordination check.

  16. #16
    Somehow I won the dress with an 88 on my third run. Got the caster chest off the final boss in the same run too.



    Seems like in most cases the only pieces that really change between the 2B set and the actual armor sets are the chest and head pieces. I was going to go for glams originally since I don't need any caster gear from the raid, but it doesn't seem necessary. Guess I will just be going for alt job gear.

    EDIT: And now I realize linking your character from lodestone updates the picture with the gear you last logged off in XD
    Last edited by Fappy; 2019-11-07 at 07:38 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Yeah we're on the same page on the concept of coordination as difficulty. We both agree that it's a genuine component/example.

    Where I think I'm failing to explain or you understand is that I'm saying Cid DOES NOT have a difficult coordination check. There's no excuse past the first time you fail that mechanic to ever fail it again. There's not an iota of challenge in standing in duskblade circles. It's an incredibly simple binary coordination check.
    I never said it wasn't, just reiterating that I failed on Cid more than on any other boss in the FFT raid series. Those Duskblade circles are only part of the reason why, and were usually the clincher in an already suspect/bad group. In most other bosses you can limp your way through if you have a handful of people who know WTF they're doing. On Cid (and some others), that's just not the case. Didn't mean to imply the Duskblade circles were some kind of difficulty check.

  18. #18
    The thing about pug content is that the real barrier isn't how hard the mechanics are to execute, but rather how punishing they are when you fail. Because people are just gonna want to sleep through it and things will be failed. (Of course, if they're difficult AND punishing, then forget it.)

    If a pug raid had a mechanic that says, "As long as all 24 people are breathing, you win. Otherwise you wipe." you'd probably wipe on it 17 times at least.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I never said it wasn't, just reiterating that I failed on Cid more than on any other boss in the FFT raid series. Those Duskblade circles are only part of the reason why, and were usually the clincher in an already suspect/bad group. In most other bosses you can limp your way through if you have a handful of people who know WTF they're doing. On Cid (and some others), that's just not the case. Didn't mean to imply the Duskblade circles were some kind of difficulty check.

    This reminded me of the fact that the best 24-man raid is now unplayable because there aren't any random groups that'd run the roulette and can clear it. .

    Most people can't even beat the first boss under 10 minutes or so. It's horrible

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    This reminded me of the fact that the best 24-man raid is now unplayable because there aren't any random groups that'd run the roulette and can clear it. .

    Most people can't even beat the first boss under 10 minutes or so. It's horrible
    Are you referring to Orbonne Monastery?

    If so, I can somewhat agree. But even as someone who like that raid there's no way I'd want to run it in the roulette as it takes way too long, is likely to fail and I'm not doing roulette for "fun" I'm doing it for xp and the level 50 and Void Ark raids are WAY faster.

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