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  1. #1

    New talent system

    Hello , There should be a revamp of the Talent system in the new Expansion

    Here is how is the revamp

    -There will be Major Talents and Minor Talents
    -Major talents are more powerful and rotation-altering
    -Minor talents offers minor boosts and niches
    -Instead of 3 options On talent rows , Have 2 options and offer more rows in the talents , instead of like 7 rows of 3 options , we can have 11 rows of 2 options
    -this will give us more talents
    -Remove useless Major talents from the options , or Turn them into Minor talents(discussed later) and introduce new ones in place of them


    Minor talents : The minor talents is for 4 things , This could be collection of Azerite traits /essences/new ideas with class flavor or theme flavor , 5 things here

    1) General minor talents : All classes share them
    2) specialization minor talents : Spec or class-related minir talents
    3) Dungoens and raids minor talents : Only gets active in Raids and dungoens , Ideas could include(numbers should be low)
    -when a party member die , you gain 5% dmg boost for 7sec
    -Each mob you kill(or help kill) in dungoen , grants you X haste for 3sec , this effect stacks
    -While actively killing a boss , you gain X intellect/agi/str every 3sec , this would help with Long boss fights in dungoens or tyrannical week

    4) Zone Minor talents : this ones only get active in the zone specified , There is 4 talents for all zones , choose 2
    For ex : in Nazmir we get a minor talent related to blood/souls
    In tiragarde we get minor talent related to pirates
    In Nazjatar we get minor talent related to water etc

    5) PvP talents relates to PvP




    So



    Minor Talents could fill some niches , for ex if a class is bad in mobility , minor talent would offer a SMALL boost in it





    As for the MINOR TALENTS rows :

    General Talents : 3 rows with 2 options
    Spec talents : 5 Rows with 2 options
    Dungoen and raids : 3 rows with 2options
    Zones : Each zone gets 1 row of 2options
    PvP : 3 rows of 2 options




    Minor talents should be fun not dmg increases
    For ex : some druid Minor talents ideas
    -Standing still for 3sec grant you earth roots that heal
    For small amount every 1sec , moving removes effect
    -After you swiftmend : a small tree will spawn around the target which grows over 3sec , after 3sec it burst and heal all in 7yards arouns it
    -for every moonfire you have , Starfall dmg is increased by X

    And much more i can make ideas for all classes ez

  2. #2
    Only 8 more hours to go!

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer
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    we should've gotten new talent rows at 110 and 120

  4. #4
    Pit Lord msdos's Avatar
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    I can't go another xpac with DK talents/tree, I swear to god I will switch to my rogue if they don't change them.

  5. #5
    or simply go back to old talent system...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    or simply go back to old talent system...
    Only if they cut out all the garbage talents, like increasing a stat by one percent. Otherwise I'd just keep what we got.

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk Shuji V2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogguh View Post
    Only if they cut out all the garbage talents, like increasing a stat by one percent. Otherwise I'd just keep what we got.
    No. Having only 'good' talents with no downside completely removes choice. I should be free to decide whether I want to increase my frostbolt damage or reduce the casting time. While not that impactful, it gives you larger control over your character and what to improve and specialize in.

  8. #8
    Pit Lord msdos's Avatar
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    The specs have no design philosophies, they all do everything. All mage specs st and aoe no matter what you choose. In order for meaningful trees to return we would need core abilities back so you actually have something to talent for and then design philosophy has to change, such as allowing some specs to be very bad at something (threshold being either bad at st or aoe, not both) in exchange for being able to play the way they want to play.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuji V2 View Post
    No. Having only 'good' talents with no downside completely removes choice. I should be free to decide whether I want to increase my frostbolt damage or reduce the casting time. While not that impactful, it gives you larger control over your character and what to improve and specialize in.
    My Idea of perfect talents its : each skill must get have options to change way how skill works (4 ways minimum)

    a)Frost bolt : cast time reduced by 50%.
    or
    b)Frost bolt : has a chance 10% to spawn additional Frost bolt if you have Water Elemental alive.
    or
    c)Frost bolt : cant be defended by immunity.
    or
    d)Frost bolt : slows target by additional 30% , if target has less than 40% hp.

    Thing to say , if we gonna have more diversity in talents,blizz would have less chances to make them all (talents) feel like useless shit.

    BTW talents must not contain any active skills, only passive tweaks to skills that already in spec, this means all active skills must be added as baseline core of specs.
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2019-11-01 at 11:03 AM.
    I want these classes in new x-pac Necromancer,RuneMaster,Warden,BladeMaster,DarkRanger,Dragonsworn,Alchemist,Lich,Tinker

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    I can't go another xpac with DK talents/tree, I swear to god I will switch to my rogue if they don't change them.
    let alone the talents system as whole as we have it now.

  11. #11
    Forget the old talent system already. Many people don't get how it works. One guy will figure out a well optimised talent tree for a build and everybdoy will copy it because it will be the best option. There is no player choice. It may look that we have more choice because we have more points to spend but really we would have less than we have now.

  12. #12
    Shouldn't you work on your presentation for tonight instead Ion? We'll hear your ideas for the talent system then!
    - I will never be the Legion's pawn. And this tower will not be its den!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryci View Post
    Forget the old talent system already. Many people don't get how it works. One guy will figure out a well optimised talent tree for a build and everybdoy will copy it because it will be the best option. There is no player choice. It may look that we have more choice because we have more points to spend but really we would have less than we have now.
    we should not cater the game to stupid people. Doing that is how we got to where we are now.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    My Idea of perfect talents its : each skill must get have options to change way how skill works (4 ways minimum)

    a)Frost bolt : cast time reduced by 50%.
    or
    b)Frost bolt : has a chance 10% to spawn additional Frost bolt if you have Water Elemental alive.
    or
    c)Frost bolt : cant be defended by immunity.
    or
    d)Frost bolt : slows target by additional 30% , if target has less than 40% hp.

    Thing to say , if we gonna have more diversity in talents,blizz would have less chances to make them all (talents) feel like useless shit.

    BTW talents must not contain any active skills, only passive tweaks to skills that already in spec, this means all active skills must be added as baseline core of specs.
    I like this. You could do so much with that. What else I would like are some filler talents. Not like +1 to hit, but cosmetic talents. For example one that makes a warrior a little bit taller with each talent or let a rogue leave some lingering smoke when he leaves stealth...

    To make a class fun to play it is not only the right balance, but the right flavor. Having a way to permanently enhance the flavor I like, for me, is much more worth than a new spell.

  15. #15
    You guys really want the old talent system? The one that gives +2% dmg to X ability or whatever

    The one we have already is good , but needs a little change
    Sometimes there is talents in the rows that is useless and NEVER used , Put there just to have the 3rd option

    Plus if we got 2 options with 10 rows , that means we get like extra 2-3 Talents Which is good to avoid pruning

    we can have AoE row : a talent for 2nd target cleave or multiple targets , without shoehorning a 3rd useless one
    Single target row : Burst option or sustained dmg option

    Plus the Minor talents things can replace Azerite/Artifacts/essences/glyphs etc which is same every expansion but slightly altered

    Every talent should be used in a specific situation and not dead

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    we should've gotten new talent rows at 110 and 120
    This would give you 3 more rows without any new ideas

  16. #16
    Pick whatever system you want, you'll never have any real choice in a multiplayer game.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta333 View Post
    we should not cater the game to stupid people. Doing that is how we got to where we are now.
    I fully agree with this; however as long as raiding, pvping and M+ remains as it is, the old talent system would never work in the modern game. Bryci is 100% correct regarding the implementation of old talent tree methodology as people in Classic have already min/maxed to join raiding guilds and have followed the guides of the theorycrafters to follow their "perfect" talent layout...I commend those that tried to experience Classic the way people experienced in 2004 by choosing their own way.

    I think what would make the game interesting would be some form of implementation of Specialization - Class and Class Subtype..a similar follow on to how DnD 5.0 works.

    I.E. A Warrior at level 10 would be able to talent for Protection/Warpriest/Blademaster and would continue to choose a talent (if same 3 choice talent exists) every ten levels until max level (in this example level squish to 60) for these specs. At level 20 you can gain your first talent in a sub class pertaining to each spec.

    So for Protection, you can choose to take the "Gladiator" sub class (a dps prot spec from WoD made to offtank while dpsing and lower dungeon/pvp dps) or the "Iron Guard" a heavy damage-absorb tank spec made for raid tier and high M+ tanking and spec into a talent every 5 levels to help either gain an ability or passively increase your abilities/stats.

    for Warpriest, you can choose to take "Marshal" (a melee dps specc that focuses on buffing raid/party members through banners, shouts, auras called "presences" and the other sub class would be "Cleric" a melee dps specc that aids in mediocre dps to light-moderate passive healing mainly a large support subclass.

    for Blademaster, you would then beable to choose whether you want to be "Arms" or "Berserker" (new name for Fury). Arms would focus on slower playstyle but with heavy damage output, while Berserker would focus on fast attack, mod damage that ramps up based on rage caps.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuji V2 View Post
    No. Having only 'good' talents with no downside completely removes choice. I should be free to decide whether I want to increase my frostbolt damage or reduce the casting time. While not that impactful, it gives you larger control over your character and what to improve and specialize in.
    Every talent system can be mathematically "solved" for the most common applications and therefore choice is always an illusion, it's either "min/max for every scenario" or "don't". As long as "don't" isn't really numerically punitive, the old system or the new system are just fine. In reality, it's NOT common for people to really adjust their current talents to every situation; they find the spec that is best for them in most situations and set-and-forget, just like the old talents.

    I kinda miss the old talent trees with the incremental progress.

  19. #19
    Legendary! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Here's expecting that the level cap will be raised to 130 without any new talent rows, with most of the fluff contained into an Azerite trinket
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  20. #20
    woah you just invented the glyph system, congrats

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